Since the previous post, I removed the batt so I could flip the power center/fuse box over to look for green corroded wires and connections. None to be found, it all looks good under there. Also did a bunch more opening of wire harness to look for bad stuff in there, but all is good. I'm still looking......

 

I think before anybody can say anything useful, you'll need to get the trans specific codes out of the TCM. You're going to need a much fancier scan tool than AutoZone would have provided anyway. So if you have any favors to cash in on, now's the time to cash in. For now, I'd consider the valve body dead last.

 

Ya, so since yesterday, I pulled the questionable speed sensors back out to throw an ohm meter on them. I'm not sure what value they should have, but they read the same, within reason, as the ones I took out the day before. I would have to assume that they are all good (0.680 ohms on input sensors and 0.600 ohms on output sensors).

I powered pin #4 in the solenoid pack connector and grounded out pin #'s 5,6,7,and 8, one at a time to see if I could hear the solenoids clicking. I read on a forum somewhere that this was a valid test. I'm not a 100% sure about that, but it makes sense. The solenoids are constantly supplied with power through pin 4 and the TCM provides the grounds at the proper time to turn the solenoids on. I got some small sparking at the pins, and never heard any clicking. I don't want to wreck it if it is still good.

Pulled more wire harness apart and found the dreaded 4 wire splice that everyone is always looking for. I cut the splice open for inspection. It all looked good, but I cut it out anyway, and soldered all the wires back together for good.

Guess I'm going to put it all back together and take it to a friends garage in town tomorrow to get him to pull the codes out of the TCM.

 

i have to ask why are you tearing up a factory harness and throwing parts at this before you have had the codes read. with that many miles on the van it just may be a bad trans. they usually go into limp mode when the input speed sensor and the output speed sensor detect a slip in the internals of the trans.

 

The only parts I've thrown at it are 2 used speed sensors, and a used TCM, all of which I had laying around here ($0). The reason you open up factory harnesses that are so old, is because the factory has a bad habit of crimping wires together and then burying them in harnesses. They go green and you lose communication between sensors and computers due to this. Also, people poke wires with test lights, or the harness gets scraped and the insulation of the wire gets compromised. This lets the moisture in and turns wires green, they break inside the harness. Many times, a vehicle will get scanned, and a sensor or module will be deemed as bad and replaced, only to have the problem not be fixed. The part wasn't bad, the wires going to it were. I've seen that many times. Check out other threads on here and you'll find a ton of them saying that they took it in, the garage changed something out, they paid for it, only to have the problem back the next day and they go pay for more and are frustrated beyond belief.

True, the internals of the trans may be slipping. I don't have a scanner that will check out the TCM codes, so I need to go to a friend for that. (Due to Christmas holiday schedules, my time and his time aren't lining up)(I also live out of town and it will be a long agonizing drive at 50 kph in second gear). You gotta check the cheap things first before you condemn the expensive things. If I can do all this preliminary work at home, late in the evening, and get it out of the way, I can go for the meat and potatoes later on.

This is an old van that I only plan on getting one more year out of. If it needs a trans because of slipping, I will change the fluid and throw in a can of some conditioner crap to try and bring it back, if not, the van will get scrapped. If it needs a TCM or solenoid pack, I will fix it with cheap ebay parts. I just scrapped my other old GC van. It was an '01 with 400,000 kms on it. I had it from new. That trans never gave a lick of trouble and it had a tougher towing life than this one. Now I know - apples to apples, and apples to oranges and all that stuff, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one. I stripped a lot of parts off that old one before it went, but I didn't grab that solenoid pack.

 

I read a few more threads around and tried a few more things. Added an extra ground to the TCM as was suggested in one. Still no dice. So I can feel comfortable knowing that its either the TCM or the solenoid pack.

I took it to town yesterday, grabbed my buddies scanner, put it on, went through everything. The TCM came back with a P0765. Shift solenoid D, underdrive solenoid circuit error. = it needs a solenoid pack.

I can get a new OEM one or a new borg warner one, both off e-bay for the same money ($155 CAD with shipping). Anyone have a preference as to which I should get?

I'll do a fluid change and filter at the same time, re-teach the TCM, and we'll see how it goes.

 

Alright, I just got off the e-bay. I ordered a brand new Borg-Warner solenoid pack from a Trans shop in Florida. I checked out a bunch of different packs, but have always though that Borg-Warner was a good name in driveline parts. There is a Dorman pack that rockauto has for sale, was reported by a few guys on other forums to have problems and failures. I didn't go with the OEM one, because I'm not sure how old they are. They maybe new old stock thats been sitting in a warehouse for years. The seals around the solenoids might be dried out and cracked or ??? Also, if they are old, they may not be up to date, I'm not sure. Updates may have been done at the factory to springs or seals or something, but these may have been built prior to that, - I don't know. So I got the Borg-Warner. By the time I was done with all the CAD conversions to USD, this thing wound up costing $160 CAD, however, the local ones here are $225 + tax = $254.25 for a rebuilt unit. It's gonna take about 1 1/2 weeks to get here, but thats ok, we have a second vehicle (Intrepid) to drive, the van can sit.


I just realized that in post 4 of this thread, I mentioned that I found the dreaded 4 wire splice that everyone looks for and can never find, but I didn't mention where it is.
If you are looking for it, it's buried in the wire harness that goes to the TCM. It's in the front left wheel well, in front of the wheel. Jack it up, remove the wheel, remove 2 screws and a couple of plastic Christmas trees that hold in the plastic inner fender. Fold the inner fender back and out of the way. The TCM is bolted just inside the fender, near the horns. No need to remove the TCM. There is a 60 pin plug going onto the TCM. No need to remove the plug. Only about 40 pins are used. When looking at the top right corner of the 60 pin plug, look at the wires that come out of that corner. Count down from the top wire, (which is wire #20 ) for about 3 wires. Spot #18 may be empty, but count it anyway. Wires #17 and #16 come from that 4 way splice that you are looking for. Cut open the wire harness and follow those 2 wires down the bundle about 8-10 inches and you will find the splice. So the 4 wires in the splice are...
1 is #17
1 is #16
1 is power coming from the EATX relay up above in the power distribution/fuse box
1 is providing power to pin #4 of the solenoid pack on the front of the trans.

Hope this helps.

 

Good information Wrench.

I'm kind of going through a similar situation with my 1999.

8 months or so ago (maybe a year now...time flies)...I replaced the solenoid pack on it. It was supposedly a Mopar unit. I'm a bit suspicious of it at this point but haven't had time to remove it to test it.

Here's a really good link to info on the solenoid packs in case you havent seen this one.....

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/solenoid-pack/index.html

 

Alright, so here we go....
I got the new solenoid pack on Friday, but the weather here has been sooo cooold that there has been no chance to put it in .... until today.
I grabbed a couple of hours this afternoon and did the swap. Was very careful to clean the surrounding area before removal of the old one, made sure while scraping the old gasket that nothing went down any holes, looked up the torque specs for the 3 long bolts, (which is 110 in.lbs., by the way), buttoned everything back up nice and neat. Started the van, sat in the garage and ran the gear selector through all the gears and let it idle in each one for a few seconds. I did that a few times, then checked the fluid level, backed it out on to the road, put it in gear, and .... fingers crossed.... no difference. It started off in 2nd gear and never up shifted again. No change from before. That was a waste of $160. I know its supposed to go for re-learning, but I'm sure it should've at least shifted somewhere if this was the problem.

 

Did you unhook your battery for a minute first to clear the computer?

 

Not sure if you have fixed this yet or not. But I just finished repairing my 02 that had gone into limp in mode yesterday.

You said you did a visual inspection of the harness. Did you test the wires going to the solenoid pack from the TCM with an ohmmeter or multimeter? My 02 has gone into limp mode twice since we bought it in 2003. Both times it was due to a broken wire. The wire has been rubbing on the back of the driving light hole on the front bumper. Just looking at the wire for green corrosion does not always give a good indication of wire condition. Protect the wire using loom or similar.

Good Luck.

 

I hate guys who don't finish a thread off when they are finishing up with a problem, and here it appears that I did just that, but I haven't.

No I haven't finished this van off yet. I haven't done anything to it since my last post in Jan. Life around the Wrench household here went for a complete dump.

My Dad just died a few weeks ago, and now Mom is all alone, living about 5 hrs away, so we've been helping her along as much as possible. Mother-in-law has been in the hospital for 9 weeks with complications of cancer surgeries, so we've been spending a lot of time there. Check out my thread in gen #1 intrepid with a broken rocker shaft pedestal repair. That happened while I was trying to fix up this van......That all equals = I haven't worked on the van.

So I'm going to try to get back into this thing, but quite honestly, we are looking for a truck to pull our boat and popup trailer. So I am spending spare time doing that too.

To answer a few questions,
guyonearth - yes, the battery was unhooked the whole time I was swapping the solenoid pack. That was an hour or 2 if I remember. And I agree that maybe the computer needs to be re-taught.

turbinemech - no, I didn't check with an ohm meter. I did check for power at a few different wires at the solenoid pack location. All checked out fine that way. I did check for wire harness chaffing on body parts, but all was good. Quite honestly, all that stuff was so long ago, and so much has happened in the mean time, I'll have to re-visit a bunch of it because I just can't remember it all anymore.

I need to get my head wrapped around this all and get back into it - I'll keep you posted when I come up with something. Thanks guys, for your help.

 

So, just to finish the thread off, .... I bailed on it and bought a truck. The Van is getting scrapped. I just don't have the time (or anymore ambition) to work on this thing.
I'm parting it out, leaving it driveable so I can get it to a wrecking yard, and moving forward with our new tow vehicle.
I can't even guess how many hours I put into it, actually working on it, researching here, thinking about it over and over in my mind wondering what I could be missing, taking it to buddies shop for scanning, asking other people.......Enough is enough. It's got almost 300,000 kms on it, the body is starting to fall apart, it needs brakes and tires again = it's done.
Sorry to disappoint.

 

Good call. Sounds like it was falling apart on you.

Welcome to the world of truck headaches.
(You didn't really think you were getting off the hook that easy now did you ?)

 

Ya, y'know, I had 2 GC's. A 2001 and this 2002.
I got the 2001 when it had 25,000 kms on it and it lasted to just over 400,000 kms.
This silver one I got from my sis-in-law, at about 160,000 and it lasted to almost 300,000 kms.

Neither one of those vans ever gave me any real trouble, until this 02 decided to not come out of 2nd gear. I will admit, that out of all the cars/trucks I've owned in my life, those 2 vans were probably the best as far as reliability. They hauled the kids and gear, pulled our boat, pulled our popup tent trailer, pulled our ATV trailer, pulled countless loads in my utility trailer. We went camping, we went geocaching, we went almost everywhere, with almost no hickups from those vans. They certainly served their purpose.

 

Donate it to a charity. Doesn't have to be running. They come and pick it up. You get a tax deduction. I donated one to the Purple Heart.

Geocaching? Kind of a treasure hunt without the treasure?

 

This is how I define Geocaching,.... "I use multi-million dollar government satellites, orbiting 20,000 miles above the earth, sending signals down to my handheld $400 GPS unit, to find Tupperware in the forest!" Isn't modern technology fantastic?

 

Ok. The Tupperware is the "treasure". It's all about the hunt for it. Is there a "Mecca" of Geocaching websites that explains the whole deal?

 

Sounds like that one vehicle may have had circumstances. Glad to hear you had some good experiences with them. I have two and for me, the Caravan is the perfect vehicle. I use it for so many different things it's amazing.

Hauling motorcycles (inside)...work truck, camper, family hauler and on and on.

 

Ya, it's not about what you find, it's the fact that you found it. Admittedly, some (most) of the actual finds are pretty lame, but it got me out doing something reasonably fun to do. I go out by myself, or if the kids are around I take them along, and it becomes a healthy mini competition as to who finds it first. It takes you to all kinds of new places, out in the fresh air (hopefully its fresh), off the couch, not at work,......
Some people go all out on it and have thousands of finds. I don't go that crazy for it, and only have like about 200 finds or so in 3 years. When I have a little extra time on my hands, and want to get out and do a relaxing activity, I plug the GPS into the website, download a few caches, and head out for the afternoon. It's a stress reliever for me.

www.geocaching.com

 

Wrenchgear- You are the most thorough and involved forum member I have ever seen, your technical knowledge and ability to convey thru a keyboard are absolutely outstanding Sir! Good job. 27 year dealership Automotive Technician ASE Master L1 level cert here.