My guess is a leaking fuel injector.

 

I thought of a new test. Rubber band on timing light power switch, being pointed at the windshield, so i can see if a spark plug is firing as the van is being cranked.

I tried this on a cold engine at 11pm, 24 deg F out. I just turned the key to start and did not wait 2 seconds for the fuel pump to get up to pressure as it was 0 psi when i started. It cranked over fine, and i saw a first flash then a second or a third flash and the motor started. Probably between 1 and 2 seconds to start. Longer than it has been taking when warmer but i do not think overly long. I let it run for one minute and shut it off to try again later.

For the last few weeks i have been turning the key to the on position for 2 to 5 seconds to let the ABS brake pump run before i start the van. Which of coarse gives the fuel pump time to get up to pressure. I will try to remember to keep doing this so i am comparing start times properly.

One thing i am wondering about is, could this be an example of the computer learning. Since i had the battery disconnected so long a couple weeks ago. Maybe it has to learn about cold starting.

This time i was paying closer attention to the clock, about 40 min after turning off the van the fuel pressure is at 20 psi.

It is now 2am or 3 hours later, and the temperature is 26 F. I tried to start the van and the timing light did not flash and the van did not start. I tried 4 times for about 5 seconds each. No flashes and no sign of firing.

OK, joy of joys it is not starting period. I rush for the PCM schematic and look for the wiring to the ASD relay and the coil. I rig up a voltmeter to the GR/OR wire to check for 12 volts to the coil, i have to disturb the ASD relay to try to look at the colors, i change my mind and connect to GR/OR at the coil. I try to start the van and see 12 volts. After it cranks for about 2 seconds it fires and starts, now i am irritated and wished it would not have started, you can not trouble shoot the problem when it is working.

Well i am not going to play cat and mouse with this forever, so i decide the most likely problem is a corroded ASD relay and socket. I pulled the relay and inspected it and the socket. Both are corroded. I sprayed both of them with Radio Shack anti corrosive spray and lubricant for electrical contacts. The socket cleaned up well but the relay had little to no improvement.

I then wiped off the excess spray and then plugged and unplugged the relay several times to clean up the contacts a little more.

I then reassembled the relay and socket and powered up the voltmeter and timing light. I saw the 12 volts and the flash of the timing light and the van started fairly well.

I can not say it is fixed, all i know is it started. I left everything connected up and i will try to start the van every so many hours until it stops starting or it seems fixed.

 

Here are the pictures of the ASD relay pins. They look fairly bad, even after cleaning.

 

I tried to start the van one more time before i get some sleep. About an hour and a half from last time i started it. It cranked for about 1 second and roared to life. I let it run for about 1 minute and shut it down. The fuel pressure gage said 40 psi, i timed it to go to 38 psi and it took 3 minutes. I am convinced i do not have a fuel problem.

 

Tried to start the van again. I did not notice one of my voltmeter wires fell off so no voltage reading. It cranked and cranked no flash from timing light. I tried several times and then it started.

Now i am thinking it may be the contacts of the relay. Every time a relay cycles and current goes thru the contacts it will self clean until end of life. I will check for cost of the ASD relay in town.

 

OK, new plan.

This time i am going to work on the ASD relay instead of the ABS relay #$%. I think i have identified the proper relays now. The ADS relay and socket were very clean. I swapped it with the only other relay that was the same type, however that relay and socket is a little corroded.

To identify the ADS relay i used the colors of the wires from the PCM schematic. I realized i was working on the wrong relay when i tried to find one. The ABS relay can not be bought any more. This is it’s part number. HI-RAM 5266193.

The van starts fine with the swap but again that does not tell me to much. I will have to go back to the starting the van every few hours plan.

 

I had a feeling your starting problem wasn't connected to the miss problem.
The relays cover can be gently removed gaining access to the contacts. You can then clean them with fine sandpaper.
It's showing no spark when it won't start, but when it won't start are you getting a 12 volt reading on the coils wire or the injectors? If you are always getting a 12 volt reading from these, it isn't the ASD messing with you.
If your getting no spark AND no 12 volt reading at the same time, it's the ASD messing with you.
When you replaced the crank and cam sensor did you gently hold it down when tightening the bolt? You want it to be tight enough that the cardboard gets ripped off the sensor. If you just let the weight of the sensor hold it in place, it isn't close enough.

 

“I had a feeling your starting problem wasn't connected to the miss problem.”

No i does not appear to be.

“The relays cover can be gently removed gaining access to the contacts. You can then clean them with fine sandpaper.”

OK, that is good to know. I thought being automotive ones they were sealed.

“It's showing no spark when it won't start, but when it won't start are you getting a 12 volt reading on the coils wire or the injectors? If you are always getting a 12 volt reading from these, it isn't the ASD messing with you.”

“If your getting no spark AND no 12 volt reading at the same time, it's the ASD messing with you. When you replaced the crank and cam sensor did you gently hold it down when tightening the bolt? You want it to be tight enough that the cardboard gets ripped off the sensor. If you just let the weight of the sensor hold it in place, it isn't close enough.”

When i get no spark i have no 12 volts at the coil pack.

It looks like we agree it is probably the ASD relay. I also think that time is a factor, as it will not start when i have not started it in at least 4 hours. I attribute this to the self cleaning action of the relay contacts. They need time to corrode up again.

Also i was very careful with the crank and cam sensors, i lightly help them in place with one finger and tightened it up.

 

Pull and wiggle on the wires at the ASD connector itself. There could be the possibility the wires are breaking at the electrical terminal. You can always do away with the plug and replace the terminals on each wire itself, then plug each back into it's place on the relay.
The contacts inside won't self clean, but they can get build up on them, which makes them not make contact with each other all the time. It isn't very easy to get the cover off, but a couple of knife blades will expand the plastic just enough.
Just went out to look at what I have on my vehicle. My relays are a bit different, but from the bottom of the relay where the plug goes, you should be able to expand the outer cover to pull the cover off. Pulling the white plastic out of the black plastic cover. I've included a picture and circled the areas you will need to pry apart.

 

“Pull and wiggle on the wires at the ASD connector itself. There could be the possibility the wires are breaking at the electrical terminal. You can always do away with the plug and replace the terminals on each wire itself, then plug each back into it's place on the relay.”

Good ideas.

“The contacts inside won't self clean, but they can get build up on them, which makes them not make contact with each other all the time.”

All relays and switches self clean, every time you draw an arc you get a cleaning action. This does not mean the contacts do not pit or slowly corrode but without this action the relays would stop working in a year or 2.

“It isn't very easy to get the cover off, but a couple of knife blades will expand the plastic just enough. Just went out to look at what I have on my vehicle. My relays are a bit different, but from the bottom of the relay where the plug goes, you should be able to expand the outer cover to pull the cover off. Pulling the white plastic out of the black plastic cover. I've included a picture and circled the areas you will need to pry apart.”

Thanks for the instructions, at some point i will open the relay up. In a half hour it will be 6 hours from the last start and i do not want to disturb anything for the test. I have a couple of voltmeters rigged up to monitor the ASD relay for 12v incoming power, outgoing power to coil, and PCM turning relay on. I should have left the old relay in for this test but i had already swapped it before i thought of this voltage test. This test will pinpoint just about any failure mode.

 

The van started well, almost no cranking. When it was running and i had the voltmeters connected to monitor voltages of the ASD relay, i wiggled and pulled on all wires connected to it. There was no change on the meter or the sound of the engine.

I also pulled apart the original ASD relay per your instructions. I was very surprised to see little or no damage to the contacts. I even used a magnifying visor with a bright light to look at it. It is in such good shape i am thinking of giving the contacts a light cleaning with a mild abrasive like scotch bright and putting it back. I will also check the operation of the relay with a power supply to make sure it opens and closes quickly.

 

I don't believe this may be your problem. I can't see how it would effect the ASD, but it's worth looking at.
It's a Technical Service Bulletin for Hard/No start in low ambient temperature.

Switching the relay around seems like it may have been your problem "so far"

 

I did find a wiring schematic for the 92. It looks the same as the 94 with an exception of fuses. I don't have a pdf but a jpeg instead.

 

I cleaned the relay contacts with brown wrapping paper and alcohol. All told i had about a half inch streak of black across the paper from the contacts. Operation of the relay was verified with a power supply and i feel good about putting it back.

“I don't believe this may be your problem. I can't see how it would effect the ASD, but it's worth looking at. It's a Technical Service Bulletin for Hard/No start in low ambient temperature.”

Thanks, i will look it over.

“Switching the relay around seems like it may have been your problem "so far"”

Yes, i agree with you. This van has fooled me to many times to call it fixed just yet.

This is a picture of the cleaned relay.

 

Heres the 94 wiring diagram in jpeg form to compare.
Both of these came from a chilton manual.

 

Lets keep those fingers crossed...opcorn:

 

“I don't believe this may be your problem. I can't see how it would effect the ASD, but it's worth looking at. It's a Technical Service Bulletin for Hard/No start in low ambient temperature.”

I looked over that document. Since i have seen the 12v to the coil disappear, i would say this bulletin does not apply. I also looked for the 22 code mentioned and there was not one, but there was a new one, code 42.

42 Automatic shutdown relay circuit open or shorted

This would make sense since i removed the relay and tried to start the van earlier today.

At this point i want to see were we are. I have removed all of my meters and put the original relay back were it was and bolted the relay bracket back on. It started up OK and i will run it like this unless i get another hard start.

 

The document did state the code may not be present.
The computer controls the signal to the ASD relay. If it thought it was an overheat condition, because of a high resistance, it may not send this signal, is my thought. The signal is the ground to the ASD relay from the PCM. When the ground is sent to the relay, it closes that contact and supplies power to the coil and all the injectors.

 

“The document did state the code may not be present.
The computer controls the signal to the ASD relay. If it thought it was an overheat condition, because of a high resistance, it may not send this signal, is my thought. The signal is the ground to the ASD relay from the PCM. When the ground is sent to the relay, it closes that contact and supplies power to the coil and all the injectors.”

OK, i see what you are getting at. I would loose my 12v to the coil just as i was seeing, if the sensor is corroded as in the bulletin. I was monitoring the ground signal to the ASD relay with one of my voltmeters, but it never failed when it was connected. If i get another hard start i will put a voltmeter back at this terminal.

I let the van sit for 14 hours and it started up fine, so, so far so good. I am thinking about that film on the ASD relay and if i get a semi warm day maybe i will pull all the engine relays and clean the contacts. I am curious/worried about the ABS relay since i can not buy it any more. I would like to know what condition the contacts are in.

 

If your always getting the ground signal from the PCM to the relay, then it would not be the problem.
If either of the hot ones (Red/white- constant power and Dark Blue/White- hot with key on) never drop voltage, it has to be the ASD relay, or the terminal coming out of the relay. Or wiring anywhere in between the coil and the relay.
If your testing off the relays Dk grn/org wire and fail to get the 12 volts from there, wiring between the coil and relay can be eliminated.

 

The van is still running well today, not a single hick-up. I went ahead and removed all of the engine relays today, opened them up and cleaned the contacts. Since the ASD relay already had a problem as described earlier, i wanted to make sure the other relays were OK, after all, all the relays in the van are 20 years old and i want a dependable ride in the winter.

Some of the relays had a good amount of black film on them and some were relatively clean. Two of the signal relays for the ABS brake system were towards the front of the van and had a felt pad between the socket and pins to keep the engine dust out. These relays were very clean inside.

If you do open your relays up and use my brown paper with alcohol cleaning method, make sure you blow hard on the contacts when you are done. With high power glasses i saw there were some paper fibers on the contacts after cleaning and this would act as an insulator.

The ABS power relay is another story and i will make a separate post about it. But i will say here that taking it apart requires you to break the case open.