392 build II

Belgiquebasterd · Jul 30, 2011

Doing a 2003 5.7 hemi to 392 stroker build, and as I enjoy technical threads a lot on this forum, tought it was my time to participate. Will try and keep this thread updated as the build goes along.

History of the motor, 2003 5.7 hemi wich had a serious powerloss (0-60 in 11 sec) brought it in to a dealer and he found bad compression on 2 cyl and a rod bearing had spun damaging the rod and the crank. Weighed my options, second hand block you never know what you get, new block would be stupid expensive for me (I live in Belgium) so a stroker it is! Added power will be pretty cool but the rebuilding itself is half the fun for me!

Will be doing all the work myself except for the machining, so any and all tips, critique,... are very much welcome.

Have been in contact with Inertia and Stu has been superhelpfull so will definately order my parts with him, holding of on the order untill the block is stripped down, bores checked for damage,...

Anyway on to the pic:

Ready to pull the block, truck also runs on LPG (wich i think you guys call propane??) so there is a lot of extra wiring wich is not in the manual so am taking my time labeling everything to make reinstall easy.

Pretty uneventfull till now, only problem found is on of the fan blades bent? What do you guys suggest, just whack it back in to shape with a BFH, replace or upgrade to electricall fan?

Fast4.7 · Jul 30, 2011

Belgiquebasterd said:
Pretty uneventfull till now, only problem found is on of the fan blades bent? What do you guys suggest, just whack it back in to shape with a BFH, replace or upgrade to electricall fan?

I don't know what you can get local, but I would suggest finding the electric fan that best fits your radiator and buying a locally available controller of some kind.

BigHemiTex · Jul 30, 2011

x2 on getting an E fan

Redtruck-VA · Jul 30, 2011

IMO, eFan is the way to go. I would recommend a OEM efan so that parts are available locally. Good luck.

hemidup · Jul 30, 2011

I have a .020" over bored 5.7 block that has been sonic checked, lined honed for stock main bolts, new cam bearings, acid tanked and thermo cleaned, decked and squared for $400.

Belgiquebasterd · Jul 31, 2011

Seems like a great deal but shipping and tax would ruin it for me!

hemi1569 · Jul 31, 2011

^^^
now that is a deal
junk blocks go for that much

Randtx · Jul 31, 2011

does sounds like a deal. but shipping to Belgium might be murder though.
what are they like 250 lbs?

Belgiquebasterd · Jul 31, 2011

First :ugh moment of the tear down, had some trouble gettin the airco pump off, pried gently

with a large screw driver and promptly broke the 3rd bolt tab in half wich is hidden in the back.
Am I in trouble or will the two main bolts be enough to keep the pump in place, I think it will but then again this third bolt must've had a function.

Pulled the intake manifold and saw something weird in the oil fill passage, turned out to be one of those plastic rings you find on an oil jug to secure the cap! FU previous owner, I wonder what else I'm gonna find in this engine!

Attached the lifting hoist balancer to the block, what do you guys think of these attachment points, OK or recipe for disaster? Back ones are two tapped holes under the intake manifold, front ones are the big holes in the front assembly cover for the ac and the alt.

Redtruck-VA · Jul 31, 2011

I did the samething removing the AC pump, except I broke the housing seal. I replaced mine. But I don't see a problem re-using the pump. Might use a washer under the bolt when you re-install the pump.

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 2, 2011

Update:

Engine came out real easy with the intake manifold removed, that engine hoist balancer thing only cost 40$ but worth it's weigth in gold:

Blocked the crank with a block of wood to be able to get the damper bolt off:

Trusty old Facom puller, didn't have the special damper insert tool thingy so just put the bolt back in and pushed on that, when the damper touched the bolt, I replaced it with a socket and extension to pull it off the last couple of mm.

Second :ugh moment of the tear down, got a little overexited with my three way puller and wanted to pull of every pulley in sight, offcourse promptly bending the water pump pulley. After I took of the pump it looks te be pressed on and not meant to be removed? Guess that's a new water pump for me, hopefully not a $$$$ part.

Waterpump, looks good, except for the bent pulley :ugh

Important question, how does this tensioner work, is there supposed to be a spring of some sort inbetween those two little holes in the middle of the tensioner??

Heads are off, the piston up top with the uneven carbon deposti is also the one with the bad big end, maybe the vibration rattled the carbon off? :thatfunny

Lot's of gunk in the coolant galleries, the two galleries to the back had gunk in em, the two at the front were clear, something to worry about or normal?

Bores look good, the crosshatch marks of honing are still visible, the scratches you see are exagerated by the flash, if I sweep with the back of my nail it feels perfectly smooth, will measure all bores with bore gauge check for bore size, ovality, taper,... maybe it's already oversize and this block has been bored before, who knows.

Damaged crank journal, the big end looked a lot worse, side was 'dented' a little but forgot to take pic, will update later!

That's al folks! Shoot away with all advice, comments,...

hemidup · Aug 2, 2011

The gunk in those dead end head galley ports are normal. If your reusing your tensioner you'll need to align those 2 holes and put a small nail through to remove the tension while reinstalling. If your using a new tensioner it will come with a pin installed through those 2 holes. Just remember that after installing the timing gear set to remove the pin or nail. Cheaper to buy a new water pump than repair yours. You can reuse the old gasket.

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 3, 2011

That makes sense! Are timing chains/tensioners reused? Did a couple of bike engines in the past and always replaced the chain for the peace of mind (plus it was cheap) I see that Inertia sells an adjustable timing set for 165$ wich is reasonable, is this worth it or is this just for racing applications and overkill for a daily driver (the adjustability of it I mean)

Oil pump will be replaced

hemi1569 · Aug 3, 2011

I think the only difference with the adjustable timing chain from crower is only a bushing if i am not mistaken. Everything else about it is oem if i remember correctly?

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 3, 2011

Just wondering if it's 'the thing to do' to change the timing set while the engine is apart? If it is, I might get the adjustable set.

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 3, 2011

Update:

The bigend that caused all the problems, badly galled (spelling?), looks like there is even a piece of bearing 'friction welded' to the side of the big end.

Removed the cam and noticed that the pin was bent, can't imagine this is stock? Maybe some kind of ******* engineering to adjust cam timing? :thatfunny

What is this sensor for in the middle of the picture, there is an identical one on the other side of the block?

Crank journal for the bad big end, there is a visible line where the bad bearing ground away at the cam, the difference is about 0.6 mm

Main cap bearings, they all have damage in the middle of the bearings. How can the interenal engine oil galleries be checked for blockage, just poke a length of wire down em or is there a more professional way? Am worried that there is a blockage somewhere that has caused all these problems.

Messed up again, removed the cam and then flipped the block to remove the crank wich caused all the lifters to fall out of their bores into the block, how important is it to match the lifters to the pushrods? In other words am I fuc.... and have to by new lifters and rods? Think I read somewhere it's not that vital with hydraulic lifters, but can't find that again.

hemi1569 · Aug 3, 2011

Most definetly going to have to get the crank turned... That sensor is the knock sensor. Dont worry about the lifters being matched, just make sure none are collapsed or weak. Take a wire brush to the oil galleys and see what comes of it. You are going to get the crank offset ground anyway, right?

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 3, 2011

Plan is to get a 392 inertia stroker rotating assembly. Block will be bored, honed, decked if needed and line honed/bored.

Randtx · Aug 3, 2011

With your project I'd suggest just getting a fresh (new) set of lifters then push rods to go with the cam

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 4, 2011

Any idea what price range a set of lifters and push rods are?

Redtruck-VA · Aug 4, 2011

i would recommend the adjustable timing set. You may want to retard the the cam depending on what cam you select. Remember the 03 has limitations with tuning that the newer models don't have to contend with. What will your tuning stradegy be?

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 4, 2011

Can't really call it a strategy, plan is to get the diablo tuner and then get a tune emailed from Inertia. Inertia doesnt work with superchip tuners so that kinda limits it.

Same for the cam, I understand the basics of cam design, but the details are beyond me so I'll probably just get whatever cam Inertia suggests will work the best with my intended setup, they are the pro's after all

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 5, 2011

Double posted, can't figure out how to delete a post.

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 5, 2011

Inertia response for the idle/tuner question:

Not being able to change idle or rev limit is the primary consideration when designing a cam for the 03. It's just a matter of not having too much overlap but I've done several stroker cams on the 03 with good success.

antirice103 · Aug 5, 2011

A stroker can make more power under the curve anyway. Go with a cam that fits the stock rpm range, but with 40ci more.

Redtruck-VA · Aug 8, 2011

Belgium, Here is a thread talking about sucessfully stacking a SC with a CMR tune (DSP) on a 03.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339143

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 8, 2011

Oh no, for god's sake why did you do that!! :ugh:ugh Even more confused now!!

peeblesm · Aug 8, 2011

Good luck on the project.

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 9, 2011

Haha, that's why we are the bast*rd's. I thought you already knew that when you posted. 03 owner's love the challenge or we buy newer. Good luck..

Kinda made a mistake buying the 2003 only finding out afterward that the electronics changed in 2004, but am making do with what I've got.

Knew that the superchips was limited for the 2003, but didn't know about the possibility of stacking tuners, learning everytime I get on this forum

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 9, 2011

Small update, not much goin on, short block is ready for machinist, will be dropped of this afternoon.

Got me one of these dial bore gauges, they are a bit tricky to setup but seems to work ok, will ask my machinist to double check a couple of bores so verify if my measurements were correct.

The manuals states if all values are withing 0,025mm of the stock 99.5 mm bore the block can be rehoned. Inertia recommends boring 0.05mm over because the blocks were honed without torque plates at the factory, problem is I doubt that my machinist has the torque plates for this engine, so boring might be useless, might go with only a hone. Will take this up with inertia when ordering.

The biggest oversize I measured was 0.018 so that's within the 0.025mm limit that the manual states, same for taper and ovality all within the 0.025mm limit, so might get away with only a hone, will see what Inertia recommends.

bore gauge:

Took one valve out to see how the contact surfaces look:

Valve before and after a light polish, black spots you can't feel when rubbing fingernail over valve.

Valve seat before and after a light polish

What's you guys opinion on this valve, get the heads redone or run em like this? Would like to avoid putting money in the heads now, will probably update the heads within 2 years anyway.

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 11, 2011

No update on the mechanical side but order has been placed at Inertia:

- 392 stroker rotating assembly 0.020 overbore
- 222/226 115 lsa custom cam for 03 truck
- 6.1 oil pump
- new water pump
- custom forged pushrods (will test if correct length if not have an agreement that I can change em out for the correct ons, Stu said they will be, time will tell)
- Adjustable timing set
- 6.1 valve springs
- Diablo predator
- 3000 stall Torque converter
- Rear seal with carrier
- front seal
- install kit (includes head gaskets, bolts (primary), exhaust gaskets, cam and crank bolts)
- Valve seal
- cam & oil gallery plug
- MDS solenoid plugs
- Timing cover gasket
- Windage tray gasket
- ngk 4306 spark plugs

Did I miss/forget something? As usual all tips/critique are more than welcome!

Christof

Redtruck-VA · Aug 11, 2011

Christof, 03 doesn't have MDS. I would recommend using the Mopar OEM exhaust gaskets. The valve seats cleaned up good, but they look a little wide. Maybe a head guru can pitch in an opinion or ask your machinist. I would hold off on having the block honed until you have the pistons, then have the machinist hone the block for the individual pistons. Good luck..

Edit: Make sure you have all the needed cables for the DSP, they come incomplete.

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339463

antirice103 · Aug 11, 2011

It seems you have everything you'll need, at least for the basics. You'll spend a lot of time ordering/buying odds and ends. But you've definitely got a good start, good luck!

PCP · Aug 11, 2011

what did Stu say on the bore?

Belgiquebasterd · Aug 12, 2011

I told him about the issue and he will send me a box of pistons with his torque plate asap so my machinist can start work, when machining is done I'll send it back, hows that for great service!!!!

Block will be bored and honed 0.02 over with torque plate!

392 build II

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