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Manufacturers have been paying fines for not meeting CAFE requirements for years. The cost is simply tacked onto the price of the vehicle. Sometimes the fine costs are tacked onto other vehicles that sell better and aren't even the offenders. It's all a numbers game. If the profits from the gas guzzlers outway the cost of the fines, then the gas guzzlers will get built. I think we'll all benefit from it though. We all want more power and better mileage. These new laws are pushing the technology to give us just that. Who would have thought 15yrs ago that a smallblock V8 gas powered 3/4 ton quad cab long bed pickup truck would get 18~mpg 70mph hwy and tow over 10k lbs for fun. It only gets 8.5~mpg towing the 5th wheel but that only a few trips a year.
 

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HemiRoy said:
..Who would have thought 15yrs ago that a smallblock V8 gas powered 3/4 ton quad cab long bed pickup truck would get 18~mpg 70mph hwy..

A 3/4 ton, quad cab, long bed, gasser, driving 70, getting 18 mpg!?!?!?! Maybe hitting the fuel economy reset button once your at 70mph, but not averaged for a tank of gas.
 

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If we fill up at the station before hopping on the interstate in Tampa and fill up in Lake city, I can get just over 18mpg. The overhead reads over 19mpg. It's a little more optimistic. But if you don't believe it, no hard feelings. I'm the one who feeds it.
 

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allhemi said:
Will we get a 6.1 hemi ram?? YES! but it will take this to happen first...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/AUTO01/603260358/1148
They need to find a way not to go bankrupt before they build a high HP motor. The SRT10 Ram was the creme of the crop when it comes to a muscle truck - and it has been discontinued. As has the Lightning. Why? Because manufacturers never earn enough money from selling them to justify the investment. Now, couple that with Ford losing billions of dollars and it makes you wonder how dedicated they are to that idea.

If they build it, I could care less. As I said before, the 5.6L V8 Cummins going in the Ram 1500 will kick the living crap out of the Ford Hurricane or GM 6.0L gasser. They can build a 430 hp stock F150 - and guess what, you could go buy a programmer for your Cummins ($600), and add 100 hp and 100 ft/lbs of torque (if not more).

I think one of main things that distract consumers is "stock" power. People think that a Hemi must be the fastest thing in a truck because it has 345 HP. Sure, it will hold its own off the showroom floor. But how moddable is it? Not very when compared to GM motors. This example can also be used with a Titan. Sure, it has a great motor - but almost NO aftermarket parts. So, the average person gets caught up in "stock" hp and torque ratings, stock acceleration tests, etc.

On the flip side, look at a stock diesel truck. Its not that fast. But spend $1500-$2000 and you'll smoke a Titan, Hemi, GM Vortec Max, etc. To me, "potential power" is worth more than a manufacturer's stock power ratings.
 

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HEMI...Enough Said!
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sandiegohemi said:
They need to find a way not to go bankrupt before they build a high HP motor. The SRT10 Ram was the creme of the crop when it comes to a muscle truck - and it has been discontinued. As has the Lightning. Why? Because manufacturers never earn enough money from selling them to justify the investment. Now, couple that with Ford losing billions of dollars and it makes you wonder how dedicated they are to that idea.

If they build it, I could care less. As I said before, the 5.6L V8 Cummins going in the Ram 1500 will kick the living crap out of the Ford Hurricane or GM 6.0L gasser. They can build a 430 hp stock F150 - and guess what, you could go buy a programmer for your Cummins ($600), and add 100 hp and 100 ft/lbs of torque (if not more).

I think one of main things that distract consumers is "stock" power. People think that a Hemi must be the fastest thing in a truck because it has 345 HP. Sure, it will hold its own off the showroom floor. But how moddable is it? Not very when compared to GM motors. This example can also be used with a Titan. Sure, it has a great motor - but almost NO aftermarket parts. So, the average person gets caught up in "stock" hp and torque ratings, stock acceleration tests, etc.

On the flip side, look at a stock diesel truck. Its not that fast. But spend $1500-$2000 and you'll smoke a Titan, Hemi, GM Vortec Max, etc. To me, "potential power" is worth more than a manufacturer's stock power ratings.

Your right people do get caught up in stock HP and thats why ford needs this engine to keep up with the hemi. And the lightning will be built again when the new truck comes out in '08. I am one of those people though, I could care less about diesel. I'm a gas guy all the way.
And if were going to get into the ''I could spend this much money thing'' let me spend the same amount on my gas engine and see who kickes the crap out of who. Everone likes different things and I like gas HP.
 

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allhemi said:
And if were going to get into the ''I could spend this much money thing'' let me spend the same amount on my gas engine and see who kickes the crap out of who. Everone likes different things and I like gas HP.
To each his own. But if you spend $2,000 on a Hemi, or 6.0L Vortec, or Titan, you will still come NOWHERE near what a Cummins, or Powerstroke, or Duramax will do with the same amount of money.

As an example, my buddy has a 2005 F250 PSD 4x4 Long Bed. He spent $600 on a programmer and a few hundred more on an intake and exhaust. The truck is lifted and riding on 35's. I have been in the truck when he put 5 truck lengths on a Titan up to 70 mph. Now, the only way a Hemi is going to put 5 lengths on a Titan, is with a turbo, supercharger, or a ton of mods (cam, gears, headers, torque converter, programmer, etc).
 

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But are the diesels doing damage to the engine by cranking them up that high? I may be mistaken, but the way the programmers for those are creating that power is by super pressurizing the fuel or something. Like I said, I may be mistaken.
 

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morrownc said:
But are the diesels doing damage to the engine by cranking them up that high? I may be mistaken, but the way the programmers for those are creating that power is by super pressurizing the fuel or something. Like I said, I may be mistaken.
There are tons of programmers on the market putting out between 90 hp and 160+ hp. I wouldn't run say, Bully Dog Power Pup with the Crazy Larry program with a stock tranny. But check out the diesel forum on here, you'll see 7,000 lb trucks with better track times that 95% of the Hemi trucks on this board.

Let's take the F250 for example (because they offer a V10 gasser and a diesel). Put a programmer on the V10 and one on the Powerstroke, and the PSD will run circles around it. There are more knowledgeable diesel guys on here than me. But whenever you have a turbo, you have the advantage.

So back on topic, I'd rather have a Ram 1500 with a V8 Cummins than ANY gasser on the market made by Ford, Chevy, Nissan or Toyota. Sure, it may be slower stock, but for minimal cash, you can kick their ass on the dragstrip, tow more than they can dream of, and get better gas mileage. Sounds like a win win situation to me.
 

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werd.
but hell, if you're gonna get the diesel, you might as well go with the 6.7l cummins coming in january :D it puts out more hp and tq stock than the hemi :D
 

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sandiegohemi said:
To each his own. But if you spend $2,000 on a Hemi, or 6.0L Vortec, or Titan, you will still come NOWHERE near what a Cummins, or Powerstroke, or Duramax will do with the same amount of money.

As an example, my buddy has a 2005 F250 PSD 4x4 Long Bed. He spent $600 on a programmer and a few hundred more on an intake and exhaust. The truck is lifted and riding on 35's. I have been in the truck when he put 5 truck lengths on a Titan up to 70 mph. Now, the only way a Hemi is going to put 5 lengths on a Titan, is with a turbo, supercharger, or a ton of mods (cam, gears, headers, torque converter, programmer, etc).

It's hard to compear a gas to a diesel but if all things are equal then I dont see the diesel being that much better.....Now lets look at this this way....

You have to pay $6000.00 more right off the bat for the diesel so I get to spend that much on my hemi. Now I put a turbo on my hemi and I still have money to play with. I think you can see where this is going, so I still say all things being equal the gas engine will be as good or better.
 

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programmers for Diesels there,s something that may be becoming very controversial at the dealer very soon. GM is already on to this for the past few years and have an internal memo that was sent to all the GM dealers about checking for the correct GM installed software in PCMs and modules of all cars and trucks that come into the dealer with engine or trans problems. Its just for this reason that programmers are so easily available for substantial torque and horsepower gains of the modern engine that these measures are coming to the dealer near you.

I don't mean to put a damper on the party by no means, All I am saying is if you go this route before you get to the dealer make sure to reflash back to stock. Even in a few years even this may not be possible as the talk at the engineering level is to add code to program that has to match for lack of the correct terminology the MDS hash #s of the expected software flash.

Guys Ilike power and performance of trucks and cars as much as the next guy more maybe as i have devoted my life to it.

I hate like hell to hand another guy with a programmer in the glove box of his truck the bill for the install of a new Duramax 10,000$.
Justa word to the wise
 

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allhemi said:
It's hard to compear a gas to a diesel but if all things are equal then I dont see the diesel being that much better.....Now lets look at this this way....

You have to pay $6000.00 more right off the bat for the diesel so I get to spend that much on my hemi. Now I put a turbo on my hemi and I still have money to play with. I think you can see where this is going, so I still say all things being equal the gas engine will be as good or better.
I completely disagree. You are saying the gas engine is better because it costs less upfront. I am saying the diesel is better because it has twice the torque, double the towing capacity, averages 7-8 more miles per gallon, has a less frequent maintenance schedule, will last 2-3 times longer than a gas motor, and you can make a 10 second diesel easier than you can a gas truck.

You can see where this is going. What would take you $10,000 to do, a Cummins could do with $5,000. Then all things are even and the initial investment is offset.

Saying you "like" a gas truck better is fine - nobody can argue that. But making any sort of argument that it produces more power, lasts longer, or performs better than a diesel, is a no win argument. You can turbo a Hemi, and it is only producing 75 more rwhp than a stock Cummins and about 150 LESS ft/lbs of torque.
 

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allhemi said:
It's hard to compear a gas to a diesel but if all things are equal then I dont see the diesel being that much better.....Now lets look at this this way....

You have to pay $6000.00 more right off the bat for the diesel so I get to spend that much on my hemi. Now I put a turbo on my hemi and I still have money to play with. I think you can see where this is going, so I still say all things being equal the gas engine will be as good or better.
hmm yeah i agree with you.. if you spend 6000 on a turbo setup the gas truck will blow the doors off the diesel
 

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sandiegohemi said:
I completely disagree. You are saying the gas engine is better because it costs less upfront. I am saying the diesel is better because it has twice the torque, double the towing capacity, averages 7-8 more miles per gallon, has a less frequent maintenance schedule, will last 2-3 times longer than a gas motor, and you can make a 10 second diesel easier than you can a gas truck.

You can see where this is going. What would take you $10,000 to do, a Cummins could do with $5,000. Then all things are even and the initial investment is offset.

Saying you "like" a gas truck better is fine - nobody can argue that. But making any sort of argument that it produces more power, lasts longer, or performs better than a diesel, is a no win argument. You can turbo a Hemi, and it is only producing 75 more rwhp than a stock Cummins and about 150 LESS ft/lbs of torque.
yeha and i agree to this too so i am on the fence
 

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crisbruyere said:
yeha and i agree to this too so i am on the fence
I was on the fence too, until I saw my buddy spend $1,800 in performance mods and make a Mustang GT look like it was standing still. Don't get me wrong, I love my Hemi. But in seeing a diesel perform, and knowing the abuse they can take, they are hands down the best motors on the market. My next truck will be a CTD.
 

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They are pretty quiet compared to the 12V Cummins I remember. I thought the new Duramax was supposed to be quiet?
 

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HEMI...Enough Said!
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sandiegohemi said:
I completely disagree. You are saying the gas engine is better because it costs less upfront. I am saying the diesel is better because it has twice the torque, double the towing capacity, averages 7-8 more miles per gallon, has a less frequent maintenance schedule, will last 2-3 times longer than a gas motor, and you can make a 10 second diesel easier than you can a gas truck.

You can see where this is going. What would take you $10,000 to do, a Cummins could do with $5,000. Then all things are even and the initial investment is offset.

Saying you "like" a gas truck better is fine - nobody can argue that. But making any sort of argument that it produces more power, lasts longer, or performs better than a diesel, is a no win argument. You can turbo a Hemi, and it is only producing 75 more rwhp than a stock Cummins and about 150 LESS ft/lbs of torque.

I dont understand why you dont have one if there so great........Beleave anything you like but if you spend the same amount of money on a hemi as a diesel you would not like the outcome.
 
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