Will we ever see the 6.1L Hemi in the Ram?
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the denali and vortec max have the 6.0's and they are both 4wd trucks and they advertise the 6.0l as getting 19mpg highway. the escalade getting th 6.2l engine is supposed to get great mileage due to a new 6 speed 2 overdrive transmission and the whole 4 cylinder deal
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What we are going to find are manufacturers building more powerful engines with better mpg. Look at trucks 6-7 years ago. I think the Silverado had the most HP at 285. The F150 was pushing 260 and Dodge was what, 235? Now, we have 345 hp motors getting better fuel economy than the less powerful trucks of the past.
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I definitely agree! There'll be a couple of dark years, but then we'll see 500HP with 20 MPG. Until then, enjoy your Hemi or CTD.sandiegohemi said:
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here in a couple years everyone is going to have really long mod lists so we can get the power back
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I see it this way, what used to take a big block, we can now produce similar power in small block form. There was a time when the Corvette had 350 HP and everyone drooled over it. Now, most trucks put that out.
I doubt MDS is responsible for any of this. The 2003-2005 Hemi guys don't have MDS, and we getter mileage than 5.9 gassers. I wouldn't doubt that in 5 years trucks are putting out more than 350 HP and getting better gas mileage. That is the beauty of technology.
I doubt MDS is responsible for any of this. The 2003-2005 Hemi guys don't have MDS, and we getter mileage than 5.9 gassers. I wouldn't doubt that in 5 years trucks are putting out more than 350 HP and getting better gas mileage. That is the beauty of technology.
As far as I know this law has been in effect for a long time. I heard about it in 03. It is an average of all vehicles a company makes meaning if they make 90% passenger vehicles and 10% trucks then all of them would have to average ~26.75 MPG. And if you had 90% neons or calibers or whatever averaging 32mpg and the trucks averaging 14mpg then you would be at 30.2mpg average and that would be ok. I really don't think there is any need for worry, the high powered engines will be there just a tad bit more scarse between all the economy cars. I think the horse power war is back on and we should be seeing some really high powered vehicles with decent respectable economy in the years to come.
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Definitely not until model year '08, if at all. The Ram's next major redesign is in '08.Darcity said:
The only reason a 6.1 might make it into a Ram then, is that Chrysler will still probably want a sport truck in the lineup and the SRT-10 is history.
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There is no such law that I have seen or heard of.mheideman said:
But there are "gas guzzler" fines for cars that do not produce sufficient fuel economy for their size/class. Trucks are exempt.
Vehicle manufacturers have to meet an average fuel economy standard for both their cars and their trucks to avoid big fines from Uncle Sam. I think that is the law you were thinking of.
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To buy an srt-10 in delaware you have to pay a $3,000 gas guzzler tax and thats in a truck. So they arent exempt everywhere. Only if you buy it new tho. I was looking at a new one and a similar used one with on 5k on it. It was like 15k cheeper after taxes and stuff. Almost bought it. But I dont really have a need for it right now being in college and allFreeLantz said:There is no such law that I have seen or heard of.
But there are "gas guzzler" fines for cars that do not produce sufficient fuel economy for their size/class. Trucks are exempt.
Vehicle manufacturers have to meet an average fuel economy standard for both their cars and their trucks to avoid big fines from Uncle Sam. I think that is the law you were thinking of.
They should be able to still put big engines in your truck from the factory, just means you get the gas guzzler tax added on it. Vipers have always had the tax as far as I know, just means more and more vehicles will have it applied to them other than just high end sports cars. It's how the process starts, increase the price, fewer people buy them, company makes no money, discontinues line, builds cars like they do here in the UK...very, very, very small. I'll take some pics and post soon, you guys will love some of these things, so cute.
Maybe Dodge will finally build us an efficient drivtrain to achieve some of the mileage we should be getting already?
Maybe Dodge will finally build us an efficient drivtrain to achieve some of the mileage we should be getting already?
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Look for more diesels in the future. I think you will see this direction take off in the next few years. (Cars & Trucks). The ground work is already there.
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I think thats the big difference between why chevy can get good mileage out of a bigger engine and why dodge cant from a smaller engine. From what i hear the new 6 speed tranny the chevy's are getting is really slick. Hell if its going in the corvette as an option for an automatic it has to be.morrownc said:
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I think most of you arguing about the law missed the post mheideman posted. It's an "average" that is broken down by class, and IS NOT NEW.
Why do you guys think Chrysler and Dodge have classified the PT Cruiser and the Magnum as a truck? And Chevy lists their HHR as a truck???? And I'm pretty sure the Nitro is considered a truck too.
Also, the article I'm linking to has some pretty interesting facts.
http://www.colby.edu/economics/faculty/thtieten/ec476/Austin.pdf
the EPA has noted that between 1981 and 2003, average vehicle fuel economy changed very little (increasing from 20.5 to 20.8 mpg), while average horsepower nearly doubled (from 102 to 197), weight increased by almost 25% (from 3201 to 3974 lb), and 0-to-60 acceleration times fell by nearly 30%.
I must admit, I hate taxes just like everyone else, but I would rather have the option of paying a tax for a high performance gas guzzling vehicle, than not having the choice at all.
Why do you guys think Chrysler and Dodge have classified the PT Cruiser and the Magnum as a truck? And Chevy lists their HHR as a truck???? And I'm pretty sure the Nitro is considered a truck too.
Also, the article I'm linking to has some pretty interesting facts.
http://www.colby.edu/economics/faculty/thtieten/ec476/Austin.pdf
the EPA has noted that between 1981 and 2003, average vehicle fuel economy changed very little (increasing from 20.5 to 20.8 mpg), while average horsepower nearly doubled (from 102 to 197), weight increased by almost 25% (from 3201 to 3974 lb), and 0-to-60 acceleration times fell by nearly 30%.
I must admit, I hate taxes just like everyone else, but I would rather have the option of paying a tax for a high performance gas guzzling vehicle, than not having the choice at all.
mheideman said:Here ya go: http://www.lawdog.com/transport/cp2.htm
You can do a google search, it turns up tons of results about the new law.
For those too lazy to click on the link
Corporate Average Fuel Economy
U.S. Federal law encourages the use of fuel efficient vehicles in a number of ways. The first important concept is that of Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE). Manufacturers are required to meet certain mileage requirements on the vehicles which they manufacture. Separate calculations are made for passenger cars and the manufacturers choice of separate 2WD and 4WD truck categories, or "combined" trucks. Separate calculations are made for domestic (75 percent domestic content) and imported vehicles. These standards, which may be modified by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, currently are as follows:
Passenger Cars 27.5 Mpg
Combined Trucks 20.0 Mpg
2WD Trucks 20.5 Mpg
4WD Trucks 19.0 Mpg
Calculation is the same as for "labels" (see below), except that actual production figures are used in place of projected sales. The CAFE is the sales-weighted average of all model types sold. The final average is adjusted to account for changes to the test procedures since the base year. All tests run for labels or other purposes are included in the calculation At the minimum the manufacturer must conduct sufficient vehicle testing to cover 90 percent of actual sales by configuration. Manufacturers conduct vehicle tests at their laboratories, and the EPA confirms about 30 percent of the vehicles at the EPA lab.
The penalties can be substantial. The fines are calculated at $5 per tenth of mpg above the target for each vehicle produced. The fines are collected by NHTSA which can grant exemptions and alternative standards. Credits can be carried forward or back in time for up to three years to offset fines calculated in other years.
The statutory basis for the fuel economy law is Title 49 U.S. Code Chapter 329.
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And I don't doubt that the 6.1, or maybe the 6.4 will eventually find its way into a 1500.
It would be interesting to see one in the Dakota too.
It would be interesting to see one in the Dakota too.
EZ4U2CHere said:I think most of you arguing about the law missed the post mheideman posted. It's an "average" that is broken down by class, and IS NOT NEW.
Why do you guys think Chrysler and Dodge have classified the PT Cruiser and the Magnum as a truck? And Chevy lists their HHR as a truck???? And I'm pretty sure the Nitro is considered a truck too.
Also, the article I'm linking to has some pretty interesting facts.
http://www.colby.edu/economics/faculty/thtieten/ec476/Austin.pdf
the EPA has noted that between 1981 and 2003, average vehicle fuel economy changed very little (increasing from 20.5 to 20.8 mpg), while average horsepower nearly doubled (from 102 to 197), weight increased by almost 25% (from 3201 to 3974 lb), and 0-to-60 acceleration times fell by nearly 30%.
I must admit, I hate taxes just like everyone else, but I would rather have the option of paying a tax for a high performance gas guzzling vehicle, than not having the choice at all.
Its about time someone actually read what I posted. Do a google search on the "Federal Fuel Economy Law". Many many articles come up.
Heres a couple quotes from several different websites.
1) The new rules do not apply to passenger cars, which now must meet a 27.5 mile per gallon average.
2) The new rules apply to most new vans, pickups and sport utility vehicles from model years 2008 through 2011.
3) As of early 2004, the average for cars must exceed 27.5 mpg and the light truck average must exceed 20.3 mpg. Trucks under 8500 lb must average 22.5 mpg in 2008, 23.1 mpg in 2009, and 23.5 mpg in 2010. After this, new rules set varying targets based on truck size and class.
4) All SUVs and passenger vans would now have to comply with CAFE standards regardless of size, but some large pickup trucks and cargo vans would remain exempt.
5) Critics say the new standards could encourage automakers to build bigger trucks, potentially wiping out the promised fuel savings. That's because the standards set different fuel economy targets for different-sized light trucks.
6) Critics say the new standards could encourage automakers to build bigger trucks, potentially wiping out the promised fuel savings. That's because the standards set different fuel economy targets for different-sized light trucks. But if Hummer were to add two inches of track width and four inches of wheelbase to the H3, the vehicle's fuel economy target would drop by about 1 mpg.
7) The new standards for light trucks will take effect for the 2008 model year. Overall, they require fuel economy improvements of about 10 percent, to an average of 24 mpg in 2011.
8) In March 2002, Senators John Kerry (D-MA) and John McCain (R-AZ) introduced an amendment to the Senate Energy Bill that would have increased fuel economy standards for cars and light trucks to 36 mpg by 2015.
1) The new rules do not apply to passenger cars, which now must meet a 27.5 mile per gallon average.
2) The new rules apply to most new vans, pickups and sport utility vehicles from model years 2008 through 2011.
3) As of early 2004, the average for cars must exceed 27.5 mpg and the light truck average must exceed 20.3 mpg. Trucks under 8500 lb must average 22.5 mpg in 2008, 23.1 mpg in 2009, and 23.5 mpg in 2010. After this, new rules set varying targets based on truck size and class.
4) All SUVs and passenger vans would now have to comply with CAFE standards regardless of size, but some large pickup trucks and cargo vans would remain exempt.
5) Critics say the new standards could encourage automakers to build bigger trucks, potentially wiping out the promised fuel savings. That's because the standards set different fuel economy targets for different-sized light trucks.
6) Critics say the new standards could encourage automakers to build bigger trucks, potentially wiping out the promised fuel savings. That's because the standards set different fuel economy targets for different-sized light trucks. But if Hummer were to add two inches of track width and four inches of wheelbase to the H3, the vehicle's fuel economy target would drop by about 1 mpg.
7) The new standards for light trucks will take effect for the 2008 model year. Overall, they require fuel economy improvements of about 10 percent, to an average of 24 mpg in 2011.
8) In March 2002, Senators John Kerry (D-MA) and John McCain (R-AZ) introduced an amendment to the Senate Energy Bill that would have increased fuel economy standards for cars and light trucks to 36 mpg by 2015.
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