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Personally, I'm excited about the 5.6L V8 Cummins going in the Ram. That motor will outperform a 6.1 all day long with a few mods. It will get 20 mpg on the highway and with an upgraded intercooler, turbo, programmer, and injectors run faster than any gasser.

SRT8 Ram = Ram 1500 with a diesel
 

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What we are going to find are manufacturers building more powerful engines with better mpg. Look at trucks 6-7 years ago. I think the Silverado had the most HP at 285. The F150 was pushing 260 and Dodge was what, 235? Now, we have 345 hp motors getting better fuel economy than the less powerful trucks of the past.
 

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I see it this way, what used to take a big block, we can now produce similar power in small block form. There was a time when the Corvette had 350 HP and everyone drooled over it. Now, most trucks put that out.

I doubt MDS is responsible for any of this. The 2003-2005 Hemi guys don't have MDS, and we getter mileage than 5.9 gassers. I wouldn't doubt that in 5 years trucks are putting out more than 350 HP and getting better gas mileage. That is the beauty of technology.
 

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allhemi said:
Will we get a 6.1 hemi ram?? YES! but it will take this to happen first...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/AUTO01/603260358/1148
They need to find a way not to go bankrupt before they build a high HP motor. The SRT10 Ram was the creme of the crop when it comes to a muscle truck - and it has been discontinued. As has the Lightning. Why? Because manufacturers never earn enough money from selling them to justify the investment. Now, couple that with Ford losing billions of dollars and it makes you wonder how dedicated they are to that idea.

If they build it, I could care less. As I said before, the 5.6L V8 Cummins going in the Ram 1500 will kick the living crap out of the Ford Hurricane or GM 6.0L gasser. They can build a 430 hp stock F150 - and guess what, you could go buy a programmer for your Cummins ($600), and add 100 hp and 100 ft/lbs of torque (if not more).

I think one of main things that distract consumers is "stock" power. People think that a Hemi must be the fastest thing in a truck because it has 345 HP. Sure, it will hold its own off the showroom floor. But how moddable is it? Not very when compared to GM motors. This example can also be used with a Titan. Sure, it has a great motor - but almost NO aftermarket parts. So, the average person gets caught up in "stock" hp and torque ratings, stock acceleration tests, etc.

On the flip side, look at a stock diesel truck. Its not that fast. But spend $1500-$2000 and you'll smoke a Titan, Hemi, GM Vortec Max, etc. To me, "potential power" is worth more than a manufacturer's stock power ratings.
 

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allhemi said:
And if were going to get into the ''I could spend this much money thing'' let me spend the same amount on my gas engine and see who kickes the crap out of who. Everone likes different things and I like gas HP.
To each his own. But if you spend $2,000 on a Hemi, or 6.0L Vortec, or Titan, you will still come NOWHERE near what a Cummins, or Powerstroke, or Duramax will do with the same amount of money.

As an example, my buddy has a 2005 F250 PSD 4x4 Long Bed. He spent $600 on a programmer and a few hundred more on an intake and exhaust. The truck is lifted and riding on 35's. I have been in the truck when he put 5 truck lengths on a Titan up to 70 mph. Now, the only way a Hemi is going to put 5 lengths on a Titan, is with a turbo, supercharger, or a ton of mods (cam, gears, headers, torque converter, programmer, etc).
 

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morrownc said:
But are the diesels doing damage to the engine by cranking them up that high? I may be mistaken, but the way the programmers for those are creating that power is by super pressurizing the fuel or something. Like I said, I may be mistaken.
There are tons of programmers on the market putting out between 90 hp and 160+ hp. I wouldn't run say, Bully Dog Power Pup with the Crazy Larry program with a stock tranny. But check out the diesel forum on here, you'll see 7,000 lb trucks with better track times that 95% of the Hemi trucks on this board.

Let's take the F250 for example (because they offer a V10 gasser and a diesel). Put a programmer on the V10 and one on the Powerstroke, and the PSD will run circles around it. There are more knowledgeable diesel guys on here than me. But whenever you have a turbo, you have the advantage.

So back on topic, I'd rather have a Ram 1500 with a V8 Cummins than ANY gasser on the market made by Ford, Chevy, Nissan or Toyota. Sure, it may be slower stock, but for minimal cash, you can kick their ass on the dragstrip, tow more than they can dream of, and get better gas mileage. Sounds like a win win situation to me.
 

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allhemi said:
It's hard to compear a gas to a diesel but if all things are equal then I dont see the diesel being that much better.....Now lets look at this this way....

You have to pay $6000.00 more right off the bat for the diesel so I get to spend that much on my hemi. Now I put a turbo on my hemi and I still have money to play with. I think you can see where this is going, so I still say all things being equal the gas engine will be as good or better.
I completely disagree. You are saying the gas engine is better because it costs less upfront. I am saying the diesel is better because it has twice the torque, double the towing capacity, averages 7-8 more miles per gallon, has a less frequent maintenance schedule, will last 2-3 times longer than a gas motor, and you can make a 10 second diesel easier than you can a gas truck.

You can see where this is going. What would take you $10,000 to do, a Cummins could do with $5,000. Then all things are even and the initial investment is offset.

Saying you "like" a gas truck better is fine - nobody can argue that. But making any sort of argument that it produces more power, lasts longer, or performs better than a diesel, is a no win argument. You can turbo a Hemi, and it is only producing 75 more rwhp than a stock Cummins and about 150 LESS ft/lbs of torque.
 

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crisbruyere said:
yeha and i agree to this too so i am on the fence
I was on the fence too, until I saw my buddy spend $1,800 in performance mods and make a Mustang GT look like it was standing still. Don't get me wrong, I love my Hemi. But in seeing a diesel perform, and knowing the abuse they can take, they are hands down the best motors on the market. My next truck will be a CTD.
 

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They are pretty quiet compared to the 12V Cummins I remember. I thought the new Duramax was supposed to be quiet?
 

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allhemi said:
I dont understand why you dont have one if there so great........Beleave anything you like but if you spend the same amount of money on a hemi as a diesel you would not like the outcome.
Because I bought this truck brand new when I was 22 . . . young and dumb! I invite you to go to your local track and race a diesel. Then you will know what I am talking about. But in case you can't make it down there, here are a few videos for you:

Modded Cummins vs Chevy Half Ton
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/diesel/0/41e7222d-ceea-47fe-9819-984d00d46a31.htm

F350 4x4 on 37's (Let's see a gasser run this time with 37" tires!)
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/diesel/5/691631ee-9330-41f1-847a-b5ad48f46475.htm

10 Second Diesel
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lelnxbibrEY

11 Second Diesel
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ykEvqiw-_8

Last but certainly NOT least - a Cummins smoking a Viper. Show me a Hemi, GM or Ford gasser doing that -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cV0XJePUitI

I challenge YOU to show me a 10 second Hemi. There isn't one. There is a guy on this board who bored out his 5.7 to a 6.4 or something like that. To my knowledge, he is one of the fastest Hemi trucks out there and he is running 11's.

Compare that to a diesel where you need:

1) A programmer (Bully Dog producing the most HP) $600
2) Upgraded intercooler $1,000
3) Upgraded turbo $2-$3K
4) High horsepower injectors (adding up to 200 horsepower) $1,200
5) Intake - $300
6) Exhaust - $500
7) Methanol, propane or nitrous injection - $2K

Total: $7,600. With these mods, the thing will be putting down more than 700 rwhp and over 1,200 ft/lbs of torque. I'd definitely run a forged tranny with this setup, which would probably put this build around 11-12K. There is no way you could spend 11-12K on a gas truck and put down this power, run the same times, and still have a reliable daily driver to tow your goodies. Hell, you'd spend 4-6 thousand on a supercharger or turbo alone - which wouldn't allow you to beat a diesel with the mods I mentioned. You'd probably have to drop in a completely forged transmission to hold the power (the 545RE couldn't handle it), which I would guess is another 4-5 thousand. Add on that cam, forged engine internals, head work, SMT-6, gears, etc., and you are well over $12,000.
 
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