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Hello all,

I am new to the forms, but I am Warlock's Dad's Son so the Truck has been on here a few times. We recently ditched the junked and blown 318 that came with the truck and built a new 360 with a junkyard 360 Magnum block out of a 250k mile Ram. This was supposed to be a budget build but quickly moved a little out of that land. Today as it sits it has been bored .030 over, EQ CH318B Heads with the LA intake bolt pattern, a bigger Cam w/ mechanical pump, Speed-Pro flat top VR pistons, Edelbrock Air Gap intake, and a 600CFM Edelbrock carb. Napkin math says it should have about 11.25 compression but I must say i didnt measure deck height before putting it back together so I assume it is close to stock.

We built this motor back in 2019 and have never really gotten it running right. its at the most stable point its ever been now and still is a basket case. the current issue is we cant seem to get it timed right. I dont know where the issue is but from crawling around i think we are drawing too much vacuum. i have gone around spraying carb cleaner and dont seem to have any vacuum leaks, steady 6 PSI fuel, good spark. i can get the initial idle and timing to around 15 BTDC,1200 RPM, and am pulling somewhere between 25 and 30 vac. when i connect the advance to either upper or lower vacuum ports on the carb the motor revs to full advance timing lights shows 40 degrees with the vac still in the high 20s low 30s.

I have run out of ideas as to what is going on and am realllllllly trying not to cave and have a shop take a look. Any help at all would be wonderful!
 

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Maybe your intake or carb has a crack? Just tossing ideas.... we had one we couldn't get stable and it wound up being the carb had developed a crack sometime or another ....
 

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Maybe your intake or carb has a crack? Just tossing ideas.... we had one we couldn't get stable and it wound up being the carb had developed a crack sometime or another ....
Hello all,

I am new to the forms, but I am Warlock's Dad's Son so the Truck has been on here a few times. We recently ditched the junked and blown 318 that came with the truck and built a new 360 with a junkyard 360 Magnum block out of a 250k mile Ram. This was supposed to be a budget build but quickly moved a little out of that land. Today as it sits it has been bored .030 over, EQ CH318B Heads with the LA intake bolt pattern, a bigger Cam w/ mechanical pump, Speed-Pro flat top VR pistons, Edelbrock Air Gap intake, and a 600CFM Edelbrock carb. Napkin math says it should have about 11.25 compression but I must say i didnt measure deck height before putting it back together so I assume it is close to stock.

We built this motor back in 2019 and have never really gotten it running right. its at the most stable point its ever been now and still is a basket case. the current issue is we cant seem to get it timed right. I dont know where the issue is but from crawling around i think we are drawing too much vacuum. i have gone around spraying carb cleaner and dont seem to have any vacuum leaks, steady 6 PSI fuel, good spark. i can get the initial idle and timing to around 15 BTDC,1200 RPM, and am pulling somewhere between 25 and 30 vac. when i connect the advance to either upper or lower vacuum ports on the carb the motor revs to full advance timing lights shows 40 degrees with the vac still in the high 20s low 30s.

I have run out of ideas as to what is going on and am realllllllly trying not to cave and have a shop take a look. Any help at all would be wonderful!
Maybe your intake or carb has a crack? Just tossing ideas.... we had one we couldn't get stable and it wound up being the carb had developed a crack sometime or another ....
Hello all,

I am new to the forms, but I am Warlock's Dad's Son so the Truck has been on here a few times. We recently ditched the junked and blown 318 that came with the truck and built a new 360 with a junkyard 360 Magnum block out of a 250k mile Ram. This was supposed to be a budget build but quickly moved a little out of that land. Today as it sits it has been bored .030 over, EQ CH318B Heads with the LA intake bolt pattern, a bigger Cam w/ mechanical pump, Speed-Pro flat top VR pistons, Edelbrock Air Gap intake, and a 600CFM Edelbrock carb. Napkin math says it should have about 11.25 compression but I must say i didnt measure deck height before putting it back together so I assume it is close to stock.

We built this motor back in 2019 and have never really gotten it running right. its at the most stable point its ever been now and still is a basket case. the current issue is we cant seem to get it timed right. I dont know where the issue is but from crawling around i think we are drawing too much vacuum. i have gone around spraying carb cleaner and dont seem to have any vacuum leaks, steady 6 PSI fuel, good spark. i can get the initial idle and timing to around 15 BTDC,1200 RPM, and am pulling somewhere between 25 and 30 vac. when i connect the advance to either upper or lower vacuum ports on the carb the motor revs to full advance timing lights shows 40 degrees with the vac still in the high 20s low 30s.

I have run out of ideas as to what is going on and am realllllllly trying not to cave and have a shop take a look. Any help at all would be wonderful!
Maybe your intake or carb has a crack? Just tossing ideas.... we had one we couldn't get stable and it wound up being the carb had developed a crack sometime or another ....
To Son of Warlock, Can you get 10 degrees BTDC timing, with a warmed up engine and a stable rpm of 600 rpm?? Are the vacuum advance lines disconnected?? What is the manifold vacuum reading at that point?? (Work those questions). What is your elevation(approx.)?? If you have an unstable" Idle", disconnect or pinch-off all possible air hoses that bleed air from your intake manifold. A high idle speed will give you a higher vacuum reading. OK, I'm going to mention the possibility,(however-unlikely) ,that the engine internal timing may be in error ,causing the intake valve to open-early. Usually a BIG cam gives you a lower vacuum readings. Because 25 to 30 inches of vacuum is a lot. I live in the high desert of New Mexico ,at 6500 feet and even the tightest engine ,here gets no where close to that high of a vacuum readings. But that is the only speculation on my part. These are just ideas to mull-over. Try to get this engine to run at minimum idle and the set your base-timing. What is Warlock's 2 cents about this situation? Hope this helps Mongoman in Albuquerque
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hello all, sorry reply alerts were going to spam for some reason.

lilcricket350 - I dont think anything is cracked . i have climbed around with a can of break clean and dont get any changes in RPM so i dont think i have any vacuum leaks there

mongoman - I can get 10 degree BTDC with no advance connected but the stable RPM is closer to 1300. that is with all vac lines off and holes plugged. elevation is basically 0, i think we are at like 100 feet so not really a factor. i did screw up the vac reading before, i looked at the metric numbers im actually sitting at 15 at the best idle i can manage. but still hooking up the vac advance kicks in and goes to full advance. guessing something is wrong with the distributor? although i am still worried that i can set initial timing to a stable RPM. below are the cam specs.

Duration Intake:230
Duration Exhaust: 236
Lobe Lift Intake: 0.512
Lobe Lift Exhaust: 0.490
Lobe Separation: 110
 

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Hello all, sorry reply alerts were going to spam for some reason.

lilcricket350 - I dont think anything is cracked . i have climbed around with a can of break clean and dont get any changes in RPM so i dont think i have any vacuum leaks there

mongoman - I can get 10 degree BTDC with no advance connected but the stable RPM is closer to 1300. that is with all vac lines off and holes plugged. elevation is basically 0, i think we are at like 100 feet so not really a factor. i did screw up the vac reading before, i looked at the metric numbers im actually sitting at 15 at the best idle i can manage. but still hooking up the vac advance kicks in and goes to full advance. guessing something is wrong with the distributor? although i am still worried that i can set initial timing to a stable RPM. below are the cam specs.

Duration Intake:230
Duration Exhaust: 236
Lobe Lift Intake: 0.512
Lobe Lift Exhaust: 0.490
Lobe Separation: 110
To Son of Warlock, your doing Great! 15 inches of Manifold vacuum is very reasonable for the style of Cam that’s installed. On the timing concerns, there are two ports on your carb,one is for intake manifold- vacuum and the other is for ported- vacuum. Move your vacuum advance hose from the distributor to the “ported-advance -vacuum -port” on the carb. This is the port that “only”has vacuum AFTER the throttle is moved to Off-Idle( slightly opened).For your altitude and for that LA 360 (5.9L) engine the static timing can be set closer to 5 degress BTDC. Next on your carb Make Sure that the choke mechanism is fully OFF and the engine is completely warmed up, then,turn the idle speed DOWN. Leaning out the air-fuel mixture on the carb will also help.Do all these adjustments with ALL the emissions hoses disconnect, from the engine.Also, check your power brake for proper operation,by, right after the engine is shutdown,pump the brake pedal ,until it gets HARD, and HOLD it down, don’t release. Start the engine , the pedal should SINK down. This test will help to ensure that there is NOT a vacuum leak through the power brake diaphragm. These actions should Bring the idle speed/rpm Down to 750 in park. And in drive 625/650 rpm. Continue to work towards the minimum-idle. Don’t despair, your almost there ! Mongoman in Albuquerque
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks for the feedback. I have done most of what you mentioned. I am feeling a little skeptical about my cheap a$$ tach and need to go grab warlock dads better one to make sure i am right on the RPMs. I have everything chugging as low as i can go and looking at around 10 BTDC of timing at what may be 1000 RPM. i think i can go lower just got too hot to mess with at the moment. however i am still getting 12 of vacuum from the ported advance at idle. when i connect the distributor advance everything revs right up and i get full advance. should i be seeing any vacuum at all from that ported port at idle? is my idle still too high and that is why its pulling vacuum? here are the lines i have hooked up at the moment. ported vac = plugged, central PCV port = to PCV valve on passenger side valve cover, manifold vac = vac gauge, and port on intake runner = to brake booster. the only thing i add in is the vac advance when i "think" i have the timing figured out.

I did the brake test you mentioned and that works fine.
 

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I might be able to help. My guess is your idle stop is too high for venturi vacuum so that the engine air requirements can be met. You can probably find advance weight springs to raise the centrifical advance curve up. Or, if you are adventurous, take both primary carb boosters out and using a cutting torch tip cleaner start opening the idle air bleeds a tiny bit at a time to raise your idle air bleed flow. Each time you enlarge the holes should allow you to lower idle stop setting. I think I would try to re curve first.
 

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I might be able to help. My guess is your idle stop is too high for venturi vacuum so that the engine air requirements can be met. You can probably find advance weight springs to raise the centrifical advance curve up. Or, if you are adventurous, take both primary carb boosters out and using a cutting torch tip cleaner start opening the idle air bleeds a tiny bit at a time to raise your idle air bleed flow. Each time you enlarge the holes should allow you to lower idle stop setting. I think I would try to re curve first.
To Son of Warlock and 65 Coronet, I’ve got a 600cfm Edelbrock on my 360 engine. I’m interested in the model type that’s on Son W. Truck. Could this be a rigging issue? Simply disconnect the linkage input to ensure that the throttle is positively resting On the stop. The idea that the butterfly is so far” open“as to pickup the vacuum port / hole ,to enable the engine to idle, just twist my brain. However...give that engine what it wants ! Thinking outside the “stock” box. Only running centrifugal advance is a real possibility. How are the existing springs and weights in the distributor, doing now?Recheck the throttle linkage to make sure it’s fully unloading at idle. What’s the model of the Edelbrock? Mongoman
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ill try disconnecting the throttle linkage later and seeing, but i replaced the stock linkage with a stainless steel cable system and that cable seems to have ever so slight ammount of slack in it when nothing is on the gas. it also travels smoothly and does not bind. as to the make its an edelbrock 1405. not sure if i can mess with the distributor too much, its a cheap a$$ specter unit from the green auto parts store. was going to put a nice MSD system in but all that $$$ went to built pistons after i melted the stock ones (lesson learned on parts washer vs aluminum). i have rebuilt the carb with the cheap chinisum kit and again with the actual Edelbrock kit and this part i know i have done correctly, i just cant for the life of me figure out why i am pulling vac at idle.
 

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You might try a vacuum gauge in the carb ports to see where you are. Mongoman is right about just running without vacuum advance. You engine combination isn't going to be much for mileage anyway. It might save you save you a lot more headaches. Those old Lean Burns had a vacuum orifice to delay total advance. Were it me, I might now try to set the timing with a vacuum gauge and forget everything else and enjoy the noise.
 

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IMG_0691.jpg
IMG_0690.jpg

You might try a vacuum gauge in the carb ports to see where you are. Mongoman is right about just running without vacuum advance. You engine combination isn't going to be much for mileage anyway. It might save you save you a lot more headaches. Those old Lean Burns had a vacuum orifice to delay total advance. Were it me, I might now try to set the timing with a vacuum gauge and forget everything else and enjoy the noise.
Son of Warlock, here's a picture of my Edelbrock 1406. My advance is Ported(timed).The vacuum advance is on the front-LHS (passenger side),and the manifold-vacuum port is on the RHS(drivers-side)when viewed from the front of the engine.Your 1405 is the same except for it got a manual choke. Also mine has LOKAR controls. As I understand advance theory,the vacuum-advance is installed to [retard the advance] and prevent detonation/over-advance when your towing something HEAVY. Your truck is gonna run great ,even if you have to pick it up and run with-it. Mongoman
 

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im just worried about about what would be causing the issue. i have mine hooked up the same way as in your photos. just went out and messed with it again and from both ports on the carb i am sitting at 10 vac. is that what you should be expecting to see from what should be the ported side? sitting at 1k RPM. both manifold vac and ported vac ports are at the same pressure so i am wondering how that might have happened. I guess i can ditch the vac advance but would rather not if its possible, i dont want this to compound onto other carb issues
 

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IMG_0692.jpg
IMG_0694.jpg

im just worried about about what would be causing the issue. i have mine hooked up the same way as in your photos. just went out and messed with it again and from both ports on the carb i am sitting at 10 vac. is that what you should be expecting to see from what should be the ported side? sitting at 1k RPM. both manifold vac and ported vac ports are at the same pressure so i am wondering how that might have happened. I guess i can ditch the vac advance but would rather not if its possible, i dont want this to compound onto other carb issues
Son of Warlock,here are two pictures of vacuum readings,on my warmed up 73" Dodge W 100 w/360 engine at 6000 ft elevation. (subtract one inch of vacuum for every thousand feet of elevation)The top picture is Idle in park,port (LHS) and Manifold (RHS). The lower picture is OFF-Idle at 1000rpm and the throttle is "very slightly opened",to get the port readings to occur. About 5 degrees of opening,not much. Is it possible that something is holding the throttle open,possibly from the linkage being loaded-up. Is there a high-step cam that has not come off it step? Don't assume that all is OK.Pull the throttle towards the closed position and watch the port vacuum readings.Make sure the choke high-speed cam steps are all released. There is where the problem could very possibly occur. Back off the idle screw setting.Let the butterfly contacting bore be the 'stop' for testing purposes. If it was easy any could do it . Mongoman
 

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To Son of Warlock, two basic adjustments will slightly hold the primary plate open on this Edelbrock 1405 . 1) the idle screw adjustment,turned clockwise to increase rpm. 2)The curb-idle adjustment screw,As part of the choke mechanism. The choke cable on this setup, probably works great when it pulled-out, for cold start. The part of this mechanism that possibly could be a source of rigging error,is when then choke is pushed-IN. Is there “springback”, in the cable? Does the cable support cover stay firmly anchored on the mounting bracket? When the choke knob is pushed IN , all the way, upon disengagement/cancelling of choke, does the knob “spring back”? And visually verify that the high-step cam no longer contacts that adjustment screw. It takes very little primary plate opening to allow ported vacuum accessibility. Lastly is there enough spring pulling action,to ensure that the primary throttle is up against the idle adjustment screw? Unfortunately ,There are no little flags that pop up and say fix me here!! What ever it takes to make the ported vacuum at completely closed throttle read Zero. Mongoman
 

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yeah i am chasing the 0 port vac fairy now as i think its my issue. i pulled the carb tossed it into a bucket with a light in it and i see some though all the opening but not enough in my mind to create that much vac at idle. thanks for the upload of your vac numbers. i am pretty much convinced this must be the issue the question now is how in the hell this thing has ported vac with the blades basically closed. going to try to reset everything put it back on and start the idle part from scratch.
 

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Deep breath, exhale....repeat!! “Defecation - Occurs” On the positive approach... your NOT revisit the timing chain setup. The Edelbrock 1405 service manual is included with the pdf’s that was sent yesterday. I’m here if you want to verify setups. I’m glad that you gave me the opportunity to do remote- troubleshootIng. Thanks Mongoman in Albuquerque
 

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Some success!!! Took the carb off blasted with cleaner, check motion and clearances, and threatened with death and replacement. Put it all back on and we can now idle! We are somewhere around 600 but getting a better tech to tell for sure and actually dial it in. No vac on the ported side and really bad vac on the manifold side, but I'm sure that will get better when I have some time to tinker. Now the question I have is more of an opinion poll. I have never had a car that had pinging issues so not 100% sure what that sound really sounds like. I took a quick video and I KNOW I have some exhaust leaks so is that pinging I hear, or just the exhaust leaks i know of?

Wanda Rumble Video

Better clip with just audio below.

Is it pinging?

And if I havent said it before thanks for all the help and support.
 

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Some success!!! Took the carb off blasted with cleaner, check motion and clearances, and threatened with death and replacement. Put it all back on and we can now idle! We are somewhere around 600 but getting a better tech to tell for sure and actually dial it in. No vac on the ported side and really bad vac on the manifold side, but I'm sure that will get better when I have some time to tinker. Now the question I have is more of an opinion poll. I have never had a car that had pinging issues so not 100% sure what that sound really sounds like. I took a quick video and I KNOW I have some exhaust leaks so is that pinging I hear, or just the exhaust leaks i know of?

Wanda Rumble Video

Better clip with just audio below.

Is it pinging?

And if I havent said it before thanks for all the help and support.
Son of WARLOCK, For an accurate way to determine if there is a “pinging-condition “, the vehicle needs to be driven ,under moderate load, and slight acceleration.But, pinging is not this engines real concern-now.Get an accurate tachometer and “KILL” one cylinder at a time ,and record the amounts. Are they even? Are all the cylinders contributing? With the idle CO mixture screws try to get the amounts somewhat even? Are you satisfied with the Basic engine timing? 5-10 degrees BTDC. Will it idle under a load? The figures that were posted as to the CAM configuration are great,if your into Racing and more Power ,But a radical / aggressive Cam profile is going to effect the idle ( smoothness) and consequently the engine ability to draw-air(vacuum).Is this way more Lift and Duration, than you want?. Only you can judge if the Cam-to-Crankshaft internal engine timing was done properly. Review you setup documents and make the hard decision as to , do I need to redo/ reinspect the timing chain setup installation.As for The exhaust leaks , It’s time to wrestle with the exhaust system because ,the leaks detract from the audible gratification, from all the time, effort and money invested into your resurrection project. New seals and possibly a new muffler(s). Take it and drive it !! Very few individuals have a perfect setup in engine rebuilds. It truly is.....am I happy with this configuration? If it was easy and simple, anyone could do it. Mongoman
 
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