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99 Ram 5.9L Magnum, street, no major pinging in the past.

I will replace my "wet noodle" soggy OEM timing chain combo with Cloyes True Roller set.

I am tempted to install it 4 degrees advanced. I am affraid that it may give me pinging.
I stay with a stock cam, (which is, I assume, retarded for emissions) Superchips 3715 should be here next week.

Am I heading for a ping trouble?
 

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With the superchips you will definitely ping. There is another member who installed the chain with advance with a stock PCM and he says it's fine. The Hypertech and Superchips is a waste of money; do a search on the subject. The only system that works is the SCT but their more money.
 

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MRDANGERUS said:
99 Ram 5.9L Magnum, street, no major pinging in the past.

I will replace my "wet noodle" soggy OEM timing chain combo with Cloyes True Roller set.

I am tempted to install it 4 degrees advanced. I am affraid that it may give me pinging.
I stay with a stock cam, (which is, I assume, retarded for emissions) Superchips 3715 should be here next week.

Am I heading for a ping trouble?
On the stock cam, I wouln't. I dont know if the factory cam has any advance ground into it. I would have to see the specs. Did you put a degree wheel and check the cam? Or did you line it dot-to-dot? Degree the cam don't assume.
 

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You said that the hypertech and superchips are a waste of money, and you say with the superchips you will get a ping?? I jsut installed the superchips and i noticed that my motor now has a little bit of a ticking...not really pingy just ticking....and i really am starting to wonder if that is why....but to me sounds like lifters...not too sure, but it bugs the snot outta me!
 

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rdkingjake said:
You said that the hypertech and superchips are a waste of money, and you say with the superchips you will get a ping?? I jsut installed the superchips and i noticed that my motor now has a little bit of a ticking...not really pingy just ticking....and i really am starting to wonder if that is why....but to me sounds like lifters...not too sure, but it bugs the snot outta me!
Does the ticking happen at WOT(wide open throttle) and under slight load like going up a small hill? If yes put it back to stock and see if it still does it.
 

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seems to happen at cold startup...and also at higher rpms....if the truck is idling and there isnt any ticking,...if i just raise the rpm slightly, maybe a 1000 rpm....then it ticks
 

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I have mine advanced 4 degrees at this time, but I have been reading several posts on this and now I am wondering.. When I bought the truck it was needing the chain, so I really don't know how it should feel when it is normal. It has been several months since I did the job, and unfortunately the timing cover has started leaking so I am getting ready to tear it down again and fix it. If yall can convince me it is better to set it back stock or retarded I will!! I am kind of confused on this subject after hours of reading different things on the Internet. Most places tell you that it onlys moves the powerband lower and that is the only effect it has. That seems like to me a logical thing to do on a heavy vehicle to gain performance. I have also read that the cam design needs to taken into consideration when doing this; like if the the cam had advance already built into it. I have no idea of the specs on the stock cam for 2001. I would think that a stock cam would be retarded for emmission issues (I get this from some reading I have done), and also considering the history that rams have for pinging it would be logical for the cams to be installed retarded from the factory. So if you have the plenum fixed up where it won't ping, it would seem like to me that you would have an advantage to having the valve timing advanced. Why would retarding or stock be better? If I had the time and money I would try all three settings and I would know for sure! I know IndyRamMan did all three settings, but his truck is a two wheel drive Indy (1996 I think). He likes the retarded setup the best, but he is a two-wheeler and a drag racer. Also, I think they may have a different cam than my 2001 quad cab four wheel drive? (I am getting this from : http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/specs/valve-5_9.htm) I hope someone can set me straight on the proper way to set the truck up, so I can go ahead and start working on my truck!! Like I have mentioned before, there has been no clearance problems from doing this and no pinging, but if I am better off with it set stock that is what I will do if someone can explain to me why...
 

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trucklover said:
I have mine advanced 4 degrees at this time, .
Did you degree the stock cam and figure out exactly where it was at? I do not trust the factory quality control myself. Comp Cams for example "generally" have a 4* advance ground in. So, if you were to further advance it by the crank sprocket it would be 8* advanced.

Example


Ford 5.0L HO cam:
Intake Lift .443 w/1.6's 116 degree intake centerline, 210 degrees of duration at .050".

Exhaust Lift .445" w/1.6 115 degree exhaust centerline and 210 degrees of duration at .050".


116+115= 231/2= 115.5 LSA. Installed on a 115* Intake centerline this total cam has a lobe seperation of 115.5 degrees and is ground with .5 degrees retard built in.


93-95 Cobra cam.

Intake lift .451 w/1.6's, 115 degree intake centerline, 208 degrees of duration at .050".

Exhaust lift .451 w/1.6's, 121.5 degree exhaust lobe centerline, 208 degrees of duration at .050" lift.

115+ 121.5= 236.5/2= 118.25. Installed on a 115* intake centerline and has 3.25 degrees of advance ground in.

To add these factory cams have been speced all over the place. Some @.050 durations for example, as high as 219 and not the 210 that the factory says.


5.2L V8 '93-'95 stock cam.

Duration advertised: 270*/259*
Duration @ 0.050" lift I/E: 205*/196*
Valve lift I/E: 0.420"/0.420"
Valve overlap: 22*
LSA: 114*, ICA: 112*, ECA: 116*
IVO: 13*ATDC (0.050" lift)
IVC: 38*ABDC
EVO: 33*BBDC
EVC: 17*BTDC


112+116=228/2=114 LSA Installed properly on a 112* intake centerline this factory cam has a 2* advance ground in. Most in likely to compensate for timing chain wear.

5.2L V8 '96-'98:

Duration advertised: 253*/266*
Duration @ 0.050" lift I/E: 184*/193*
Valve lift I/E: 0.413"/0.430"
Valve overlap: 36*
LSA: 112*, ICA: 109*, ECA: 115*
IVO: 17*ATDC (0.050" lift)
IVC: 21*ABDC
EVO: 32*BBDC
EVC: 19*BTDC

109+115=224/2=112 LSA This would seem that this cam has a 3* advance ground in.
Hope this helps
 

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Some additional info


Intake Centerline
The intake centerline (ICL) of a cam is the most overlooked spec. The ICL can have nearly as much of an effect on peak power and the RPM at which peak power occurs as duration. The intake centerline is the position, in crank degrees, that the intake lobe hits peak lift (the center of the lobe). Most small block Chevrolet cams seem to come ground on a 108 ICL, meaning the intake valve reaches peak lift at 108 degrees. ICL is inter-related with LSA, in that the LSA of a given cam is typically considered the "straight up" point for that cam. For example, a cam with a 114 LSA, if ground with an ICL of 114, would be considered "straight up". However, the same cam ground on a 110 ICL is considered to be 4 degrees advanced.

This is a good time to discuss retarding/advancing and the effects of both. Retarding or advancing a cam can be achieved in two ways. The most common is to install the cam with offset bushings in the cam gear to adjust the cam timing, but it can also done by grinding the advance/retard into the cam core itself. You might have a cam ground with a 112 LSA and a 108 ICL...that means that if installed straight up it would be 4 degrees advanced. You could chose to retard or advance the cam from that point using an adjustable timing set as well, but the changes would be + or - from the 108 degree starting point. A cam that has a 112 LSA and 112 ICL would be ground straight up, and to advance it four degrees (resulting in a 108 ICL "as installed") would require an adjustable timing set.

Advancing a cam means you are moving the valve events earlier in the cycle. If done when installing the cam you will be moving both the intake and exhaust events earlier in the cycle. This generally boosts low speed torque at the expense of peak HP. Retarding a cam does the opposite, it will improve peak power by delaying valve events, which will increase peak HP and move the peak HP rpm up, but at the expense of low-end power.

Grinding the advance/retard into the cam offers a couple of advantages. You can advance the intake valve while holding the exhaust valve where it is, which would increase overlap, or you could retard the intake, which would increase the LSA and reduce overlap, but it would also delay the intake valve closing which would improve top end power. Or you can move both lobes and split the difference. This is where the benefits of custom cams come in: you can tailor the cam to your specific needs.
 

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Only thing I found on the 5.9L stock cam

5.9L V8 '98 ZJ:

Duration advertised: 251*/271*
Duration @ 0.050" lift I/E: 188*/194*
Valve lift I/E: 0.411"/0.417"
Valve overlap: 43*
LSA: 111.5*, ICA: 116*, ECA: 107*
IVO: 22*ATDC (0.050" lift)
IVC: 30*ABDC
EVO: 23*BBDC
EVC: 9*BTDC


116 ICA+107 ECA=223/2=111.5 LSA.

Installed on a 116* ICA would be 4.5 retard ground into the cam. Unless you degree it, you dont exactly know. Your still kind of shooting in the dark.
 

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Thanks for all the information!! I agree, it sounds like an investment in a degree wheel kit would be a good idea to get this right. I am going to read over all this after work this evening to get a better understanding of it.

Thanks again!!
 

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Okay, I am trying to understand all of this. I used the specs from http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/specs/valve-5_9.htm and used the calculater from http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/camshaft.html and came up with the 2001 cam has about 8* retard built into it!! Am I doing this right? If this is correct, what does this tell you? Does this mean that it would be an advantage to having the timing advanced? (Sorry for all the questions, but this is interesting and I am trying to learn)
 

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Th math is correct for that set of figures, but you would need to actually degree your stock cam to verify it's valve events.
 

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Okay, let's assume I degree the stock cam (which I plan to do) and it comes out exactly the way the specs say. What's next? What do I do with that information? How do I determine what the best setup for the stock cam is? How do I use this information to determine whether or not I want to advance, retard, or go straight up with the timing chain?

By the way, thanks again for all of your help in this!! I really appreciate it. I apologize for the many questions, but I just want to be sure I set my truck up right.
 

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trucklover said:
Okay, let's assume I degree the stock cam (which I plan to do) and it comes out exactly the way the specs say. What's next? What do I do with that information? How do I determine what the best setup for the stock cam is? How do I use this information to determine whether or not I want to advance, retard, or go straight up with the timing chain?

By the way, thanks again for all of your help in this!! I really appreciate it. I apologize for the many questions, but I just want to be sure I set my truck up right.
Best would be to take that lazy lobbed stock cam out. Put in another one or get that one reground. The numbers I'm using give it a 4.5* retard and yours 8* of retard ground into the cam. Again degreeing it will verify.

Other options

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-5249600&autoview=sku

and a good quality adjustable timing chain/gear. I would leave it and get another camshaft.

I'm goin to post these cam specs at another board and see what they say.
 

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94RAM5spd said:
Best would be to take that lazy lobbed stock cam out. Put in another one or get that one reground. The numbers I'm using give it a 4.5* retard and yours 8* of retard ground into the cam. Again degreeing it will verify.

Other options

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-5249600&autoview=sku

and a good quality adjustable timing chain/gear. I would leave it and get another camshaft.

I'm goin to post these cam specs at another board and see what they say.
I feel like your numbers are more accurate; 8* seems a little much even for a factory cam.

Right now I have the Comp Cams adjustable timing gear set installed. I wish I could afford to do the cam swap, that would solve this thing quick!! But for right now, I am just going to try and get this stock cam set up correctly and leave it there.
 

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trucklover said:
I feel like your numbers are more accurate; 8* seems a little much even for a factory cam.

Right now I have the Comp Cams adjustable timing gear set installed. I wish I could afford to do the cam swap, that would solve this thing quick!! But for right now, I am just going to try and get this stock cam set up correctly and leave it there.
8* retard does seem kind of out there. I would spec it out and if it's 4-5* retard get the off-set cam kit and adjust at the cam sproket to bring it straight up.

Funny thing is I have a '96 5.9L sitting in the garage. I may just stick the cam back in it and play around when I get the time.
 

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The reasoning behind retarding the cam timing in the 70's was to decrease cylinder pressure and lower NOx emissions.
I installed a Comp cam in my van at the zero mark and it was within 1 degree when I degreeed it of the listed spec for the cam... The chain was an Edelbrock dual roller.
 
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