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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off, thanks for all the great information you all provided. I started to hear a " howling gear noise" coming from the back of my 2003 Ram Quad Cab (5.7 Hemi with 3.92). With all your great info about the LSD retainer clips, i pulled the rear diff. cover and found 2 full clips, and 1 partial clip on the magnet along with lots of silvery fluid. So obviously something is really screwed up (the noise is pretty loud) and my 7/70 warranty expired 2 thousand miles ago so i have to foot the bill for this. Anyone have any idea how much this will cost me? i don't want to go to a repair shop "blind" and get ripped off. Thanks!
 

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Serenity
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First off, thanks for all the great information you all provided. I started to hear a " howling gear noise" coming from the back of my 2003 Ram Quad Cab (5.7 Hemi with 3.92). With all your great info about the LSD retainer clips, i pulled the rear diff. cover and found 2 full clips, and 1 partial clip on the magnet along with lots of silvery fluid. So obviously something is really screwed up (the noise is pretty loud) and my 7/70 warranty expired 2 thousand miles ago so i have to foot the bill for this. Anyone have any idea how much this will cost me? i don't want to go to a repair shop "blind" and get ripped off. Thanks!
Damn - sorry about the warranty, that really bites. Maybe you can take it to the dealer anyway and see what they say (or the clips at least). It may be a common enough problem that they may help you out.

If they will not do anything then it really depends on if those clips damaged anything on the way out. Best case is that you can just pull the remaining clips, clean out the rear end and re-fill it and see how it goes. If it is still making noise, then you would probably have to take it into a gear shop and have them look it over (not the dealer if possible). Did you inspect the ring and pinion and if so - do they look OK? If so, it could just be the LSD making noise, or maybe some metal shavings got into the axle or pinion bearings.

A new LSD is about $425.00 (Auburn) or $510 (Detroit) and a master install kit (bearings, shims, etc) is about another $100.00. I would think the cost to just install a new LSD would be less than $300.00
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, thanks for the info. I have no idea if the ring and pinion are damaged - i don't know what a damaged ring and pinion looks like. I cleaned it out real good, changed fluid and added limited slip additive, but it still makes the noise. I'm going to take it to a couple of shops and get some estimates. I'm just hoping i don't have to replace the whole axle - that baby is really howling. Thanks again.
 

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Sorry to hear about your axle troubles. It really sucks that your just out of your powertrain warranty. I would try to bypass the dealer and call Chrysler customer assistance to see if they will help you. My neighbor had a 2001 Chrysler minivan with a transmission issue that was out of warranty by 1200 miles and the factory split the repair with him 50/50.
 

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LPG Hemi
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I would say that with your "howling" diff, it's all the bearings gone etc.
The metal shavings and "silvery" diff fluid certainly take their toll on bearings and sleeves etc etc.
If as you say there is silver diff fluid, it means your retaining clips have started to cut into your axle.
Depending on how far this has gone, will determine if the whole thing (axle) needs replacing or not?
Unfortunately from what your saying, I think it will.
Hope you get some cheap quotes??
The guys on here will keep you right if you post them up.
I can't help with the estimates as I'm in the UK, but have had similar trouble with my diff and the dreaded clip retaining clip problems.
I junked the whole stock LSD and installed a new Detroit TruTrac with a master install kit.
I had the whole axle cleaned out and replacement bearings and pinion seal/crush sleve replaced.The truck drives real smooth now and you will notice a BIG difference in how it drives.
Hope this has been helpful and post up how you get on and for advise on your quotes.
Best of luck.
Al.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all the info guys. Got an estimate this week of approx. 850 dollars installed with a Auburn Posi, new bearings, etc. I was told that if the ring and pinion are bad it will be an extra 250 dollars. Thats is just the ball park estimate, mechanic hasn't opened up the rear end yet. It's going to the shop wednesday (Feb 25th) and i'll know for sure how much damage is done. Can't wait to get the Hemi back on the road!!!!
 

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LPG Hemi
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I know it's a little more expensive for a DTT and that the Aurburn is also a good unit but, I'd pay a little more for the DTT and then you don't have to worry about LSD additive anymore or clutches wearing out.
Just my 2c worth.
Al.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for all the info Al. Stopped by the shop as the mechanic opened up the rear end. Once again it was loaded with silver in the fluid. I couldn't believe since i had just cleaned it out and only drove it about 20 miles. Anyhow, I went with the Auburn only because it was available and the DTT would take a couple of days. Turned out the pinion bearing was shot also, probably from when that darn pinoin seal was leaking. Truck is home, runs better than ever.
 

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LPG Hemi
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Glad everything turned out OK.
Now you can have trouble free motoring, without having to worry about when the stock lsd will give out.
Al.
 

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Dunno if this is related:
For a few months, I have had a slight shuddering noise/vibration pulling away normally while turning corner left . Thought it was only turning left , but think i hear/feel it also while turning right.
Is this a typical LSD problem symptom? What should i do? try deep purple?
It's an '04 1500QCSB 4wd stock, with 275/70/17 wranglerATS
 

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LPG Hemi
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It is probably normal as it's the clutches disengaging one of the wheels, whilst turning to avoid "binding".
The ONLY way to see if you have the dreaded clip retaining issues is to pull the pumpkin and have a look.
Usually, no symptoms persist when the clips come out of their pockets, except for the occasional cataclysmic failure of the entire carrier etc, when the clips get pulled up into the pinion.
Hope this help?
Al.
 

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Serenity
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Dunno if this is related:
For a few months, I have had a slight shuddering noise/vibration pulling away normally while turning corner left . Thought it was only turning left , but think i hear/feel it also while turning right.
Is this a typical LSD problem symptom? What should i do? try deep purple?
It's an '04 1500QCSB 4wd stock, with 275/70/17 wranglerATS
You could try that rock band - never knew they were mechanics, but ... :D























Oh - you meant Royal Purple ;)
 

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Whats funny to me is when the Dodge engineers where here on our forum a while back they said they where unaware of the clip problem.To top it all off,they're still replacing the junk clips with the same junk clips!
The reason I drive my current truck is because I was tired of fighting the junk rear end in my 1500...
 

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If the clips come out and don't damage anything, you're in like Flint. Just leave 'em out. If mine ever misbehaves, I'm thinkin' DTT.

Regarding the dealers' awareness of the clip issue, that seems to be a common thread -- ignore it 'til the warranty expires. I asked the local dealer here about it, and they didn't even know what I was talking about.
 

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My truck is an 04, 2500 Q/C, with 3.73's in it. I just got it, and didn't notice the rear end making noise on the test drive, but now the trucks in my posession and the rear end howls a little when letting off the throttle. Not under load, just when off throttle or no load condition. I tried to wiggle the drive shaft at the pinion yoke, not really any play to speak of. I haven't done a thurough inspection of the driveshafts to look for worn u-joints yet, but I will. I will probably pull the cover on the diff and check things out, the truck has 117,000 miles on it, and had been used to pull a fith-wheel trailer. I'm sure the miles of pulling have taken its toll, my question is this; is there anyone else on the board that has a 3/4 ton hemi truck with similar mileage and are they experiancing any problems with thier rear axle?
Any thought or opinion are appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 

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Serenity
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My truck is an 04, 2500 Q/C, with 3.73's in it. I just got it, and didn't notice the rear end making noise on the test drive, but now the trucks in my posession and the rear end howls a little when letting off the throttle. Not under load, just when off throttle or no load condition. I tried to wiggle the drive shaft at the pinion yoke, not really any play to speak of. I haven't done a thurough inspection of the driveshafts to look for worn u-joints yet, but I will. I will probably pull the cover on the diff and check things out, the truck has 117,000 miles on it, and had been used to pull a fith-wheel trailer. I'm sure the miles of pulling have taken its toll, my question is this; is there anyone else on the board that has a 3/4 ton hemi truck with similar mileage and are they experiancing any problems with thier rear axle?
Any thought or opinion are appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
That type of noise usually points to a problem with the gear setup rather than the LSD. Maybe over time the bearings, pinion depth, carrier pre-load, etc have worn and caused setup to start making noise. I am not sure if they can be re-adjusted, but I do not see why not. Bottom line is that is is not an LSD clip issue - especially since the 2500/3500 use a gear based LSD, not one with clutch packs as in the 1500s.
 

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Thanks Gary for the reply, I will certainly pull the rear cover and have a look see. I am hoping a simple re-shim of the carrier or pinion will be a solution.
 

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It is probably normal as it's the clutches disengaging one of the wheels, whilst turning to avoid "binding".
The ONLY way to see if you have the dreaded clip retaining issues is to pull the pumpkin and have a look.
Usually, no symptoms persist when the clips come out of their pockets, except for the occasional cataclysmic failure of the entire carrier etc, when the clips get pulled up into the pinion.
Hope this help?
Al.
Hey LPG: thanks for the starting point. Thing is, i've only heard this shuddering in the last month or two.
Would it have anything to do with me blasting thru the truck's maximum snowfall capacity on/around the farm field laneway several times in 4wd 1st gear?....(in order to get to my trailer and pack down a track.) Could it have been too much exercise for the diff?
If i still hear the noise and the cataclysm has not happened yet, should'nt i replace them anyway? I definitely feel that something is binding and restricting my turning radius. It feels like something is being damaged even without sucking up the pins into the gears.
Are there better parts to put in? ...along with Royal Purple?
thanks.....from the curious canuck.
 

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LPG Hemi
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The "binding" and the "restricion in your turn radius" your experiencing I think, is just from the transfercase when in 4x4.
Do you have much if any 4x4 experience?
Even in snow/mud/ice etc when 4x4 hi/lo should be engaged and everything is slipping nicely as it should, you will get some "binding" on tight radius turns.
Does this "binding" ease if you increase your turning radius?
I bet it does.
So I think what your feeling is "normal".
With the transfer case engaged and the 4x4 system working, in tight turns even in slippy conditions the difference in wheel speeds is at it's worse. So you will feel this as "binding", as one set of wheels is turning against the others at a different rate/speed.
With regards to junking your stock lsd and putting in something else.......this will not cure you of this "binding" your feeling. It will however save you from the dreaded c clip retaining failures.
I fitted a Detroit TrueTrac in my rear and it's AWESOME!
Much smoother, no chatter or shuddering from the clutches engaging etc and no more LSD additive to buy or worrying when not if the clips, are going to fail destroying your axel.
Hope this helps?
Al.
 

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The "binding" and the "restricion in your turn radius" your experiencing I think, is just from the transfercase when in 4x4.
Do you have much if any 4x4 experience?
Even in snow/mud/ice etc when 4x4 hi/lo should be engaged and everything is slipping nicely as it should, you will get some "binding" on tight radius turns.
Does this "binding" ease if you increase your turning radius?
I bet it does.
So I think what your feeling is "normal".
With the transfer case engaged and the 4x4 system working, in tight turns even in slippy conditions the difference in wheel speeds is at it's worse. So you will feel this as "binding", as one set of wheels is turning against the others at a different rate/speed.
With regards to junking your stock lsd and putting in something else.......this will not cure you of this "binding" your feeling. It will however save you from the dreaded c clip retaining failures.
I fitted a Detroit TrueTrac in my rear and it's AWESOME!
Much smoother, no chatter or shuddering from the clutches engaging etc and no more LSD additive to buy or worrying when not if the clips, are going to fail destroying your axel.
Hope this helps?
Al.
Sorry, i should have said that the stuttering noise/vibration occurs when in 2wd , and on both dry and wet pavement. That's why i suspect the LSD/clutches.
I thought perhaps i had previously stressed the diff too much while charging thru the snow in 4wd Hi. ( it did "skip/jump" going hard uphill )

So, do i understand that the Detroit True Trac is a straight replacement LSD unit?...with better (no-clip) technology/clutches?
If this is so, then i should just order one so it's on hand for my mechanic to replace without a lot of down time.
And yes, i have some experience/understanding with 4wd ... all my Italian tractors also are non-hydrostatic, 4wd with optional manual locking diff's.

And sure, in the Ram, when in 4wd my turns are easier with larger radius.....but again when turns are tighter , and often in reverse, it almost locks up on me....feels like it's going to break something, so i re-adjust my wheelturn-cranking/fwd/reverse.
Thanks again
 
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