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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok... I thought I had this fixed but was wrong. I'd very much appreciate someone helping out/saving my new family some $$$...

The problem is intermitent. When cold, the 2002 Dodge 24vHO 6spd seems to turn at a faster rate than normal. It normally takes two attempts (5 to 10 seconds each try) to get it to start.
This is the second winter in a row I have seen this problem. As crazy as it sounds, it seems more likely to happen when the block heater IS plugged in.

Stock lift pump is making 30psi
Correct voltage/resistance at fuel heater
correct voltage/resistance at intake heater
all terminals cleaned last week
brand new fuel filtrer.
Lil Help?
:gr_patrio
 

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Hmm....definately more info, such as how cold, and cold engine or cold oat? Also, you just have the stock lift pump? 30psi is a high pressure, not too high but high enough to see hard starting problems. And i hate to say this but you may be seeing the beginning of your VP44 showing what it's made of....not much!!! The faster spinning could be in your head, it could be the heat from the block heater causes the engine to stay at a warmer temp that lowers the viscosity of the oil and keeps the metals expanded to where they fit better, thus spinning a minute amount faster, and/or the IP is not injecting fuel because it is going out, thus there is no fuel combustion that fights the cylinders up movement. You know....all minute things that you could see as faster cranking rpm. Failing IP and high fuel press are the common causes of hard starting but are not usually isolated to just the winter months. Also, now that i think of it, if you have any leaks in the fuel system allowing air in it will let the fuel system loose its prime causing hard starting too. This is noticed more as a hard start after sitting for awhile as to sitting for an hour or two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hmm...
INFO:
2002 5.9 HO
6Spd 4X4
New air and fuel filter

I live in Colorado at 9200ft in alt. Right now (night) its 20 degrees. Yesterday at noon it was 65. I run the block heater at night.

All heaters test ok per the manual and a fluke meter. I don't know where I came up with 30psi... I meant 10psi. The last time the pressure was checked was by the dealer last July. I bought a gauge today, and will re-check soonest. But, I am seeing nothing different than last time. No codes, pressure is being made, and when winter hits the truck dosen't like starting after sitting a bunch of hours. It DOES start every time.... it just takes a try or 2.
Once running it runs like a raped ape. No performance issues at all.

My lastest trick has been to bump the starter a few time to turn on the LP and cycle the heaters a few times as well. No help.

I don't see any leaks, but cycleing the LP should fix that I think. But AIR is what I'm starting to think as well.

HERE IS SOMETHING NEW:
I realized the problem tracks with the fuel level in the tank! The lower the fuel the more like;y I'll have a cold start issue. Yesterday I was right against E all day and had the problem reliably and consistantly. I filled it on the way home and I NEVER had the problem today. Today was MUCH colder than yesterday too.... I'm thinking the cold temps lower the air pressure in the tank?!?!? COuld this be a tank issue? Tank cap?? Pick-up line?

Like i said, I got a gauge and will retest the pressure, but I dont think pumps are the issue. To that end, Dodge didnt even push the new tank mounted pump once they tested pressures.... The $110.00 went more toward education I guess.

Lat thing, the truck did this all last winter and ran great all Spring and Summer.

Thanks again! I do appreciate the help! :gr_patrio
 

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really sound like you are drawing air from the primary side of the fuel system run it for awhile with 3/4 or more of fuel see if it stops if it does than the problem is probally in the sending unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advise Trans!
I started great this morning as well (18 degrees @ >3/4tank).
I'm confused.... Is the sending unit seperate from the primary pump and the lift pump? Where does it sit? The tank?
Thanks again!
 

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Goings said:
Thanks for the advise Trans!
I started great this morning as well (18 degrees @ >3/4tank).
I'm confused.... Is the sending unit seperate from the primary pump and the lift pump? Where does it sit? The tank?
Thanks again!
there is a sending unit in your tank and somewhere it is sucking air probally a cracked rubber hose. I'm sure there is a primer pump in the tank but i never really read what year truck you had. i just read you information and gave you a dirrection to go in if it keeps starting with above 3/4 tank of fuel. than drop the tank and look for the problem. It is probally as simple as a plastic hose with a small split in it or maybe a rubber hose. You can put the sending unit in a bucket of fuel and test it outside the truck with a 12 volt battery and look for leaks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks again Trans.
Like I said, every step close is money in the wallet.
I'll try and drop the tank Sunday after work. In the mean time I'll keep it above 3/4 tank. SO far I haven't see the problem at since filling it.

I checked pressures last night. Here they are:

While Engine is cranking = 0 psi
Engine at rest right after cranking = jumps to 10 psi
Engine at idle = 7.5-10 psi
Engine running at 2500-3000 rpm = 5+ psi

I have a 2002 24/V. The only test port I can find is at the main pump banjo, the manual say there is another at the lift pump, but there isn't.

Truck is still at 3/4 of a tank and still not seeing the problem at all.

Last - how do I clear the code from pulling my fuel relay?

Thanks again
G
 

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I'm really suprized after a week nobody jumped on him for calling it a Cummings, not a Cummins

You guys are slipping and disappointing me :D
 

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Wow that's a real help to the guy maybe he should sit buy his truck and practice spelling. That I'm sure will get his truck running well. I'm sure he will appreciate all your help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well..
I know what is not.
Only thing is the manual calls for pressure during crank and I only get preasure after crank (without engine running @ 10psi) so I'm confused by that.

I spoke to a friend who explained the sending unit and it well-know issues.
Seems Dodge uses the same on in all trcuck and the unit 'telescopes' into the tank and is held tight by two screws. Those screws loosen and the thing telescopes into itself...

I haven't had time to pull the the tank so I'm keeping it above 3/4 tank.
Sounds like a simple fix - hope it's the problem.
Thanks again for the help - so far I've saved $1k in not installing the new LP dealer reccomended
 

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transman said:
Wow that's a real help to the guy maybe he should sit buy his truck and practice spelling. That I'm sure will get his truck running well. I'm sure he will appreciate all your help.
It was a forum joke dude. After you have been around for awhile you will understand................
 

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Ram3500Dually said:
It was a forum joke dude. After you have been around for awhile you will understand................
I go on alot of forums and usually someones joke like yours really screws up threads. I'm sure when you've been around for awhile. You'll see what I'm talking about.People say thing about spelling , periods etc. Its just bad humor that doesn't need to be said.If you really had a problem and needed help you wouldn't appreciate it someone made fun of your question because you left something out.
 

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Goings said:
Well..
I know what is not.
Only thing is the manual calls for pressure during crank and I only get preasure after crank (without engine running @ 10psi) so I'm confused by that.

I spoke to a friend who explained the sending unit and it well-know issues.
Seems Dodge uses the same on in all trcuck and the unit 'telescopes' into the tank and is held tight by two screws. Those screws loosen and the thing telescopes into itself...

I haven't had time to pull the the tank so I'm keeping it above 3/4 tank.
Sounds like a simple fix - hope it's the problem.
Thanks again for the help - so far I've saved $1k in not installing the new LP dealer reccomended
well it's a week later did you pull that tank yet ?
 

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I only saw it as a small attempt at making humor. You know not all of life can be plain and dry. One thing my friends and I make a point to do when something goes wrong is to find a point to make fun of to, if at most, lighten the mood. There was nothing 3500dually said that was harsh or offensive and IF Goings had a problem with it he would be more than welcome to say so. So my point is, take some time to attempt to gain a sense of humor. Hmm.....ok i sure hope i spelled eveything right. Oh crud, I forgot to capitolize the I's.....or is it capitalize?......man i give up.

P.S. As long as I have known Ram3500Dually to be a moderator on here he has done a fine job, and I think if he didn't know how to act he wouldn't be a moderator.
 

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Back to the subject....i understand what your friend is saying about the in tank module. Most slide on rods that have springs, it could be binding up and not falling to the bottom possibly, but if that were the case you shouldn't have a starting problem as much as a problem to use the full amount of fuel in the tank.
 

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Hi all,

As an ower of a 2006 crew cab smoker, I thought I'd join the crowd. I, as with many, wander through sites and yeah, there's always some humor... some better than others.. perhaps it's a good indication of life as each lives it. At any rate, I'm a little surprised anyone would have starting problems with this six... it's well proven... I remember when this engine made its debut in the industrial/marine market and how many issues it had! Agreed, Tucson isn't defined as cold but where I was raised was and is. If you've fuel and compression, all you need do is spin the engine. For those of you in extremely cold areas, perhaps there's an alternative to the resistence heating of the intake air (the least efficient way of heating anything). We used Thermo-Starts in all industrial engines. They were reliable, trouble free and they worked well into the minus digits. Agreed, it's not exactly state-of-the-art technology but they work. All one need do is mount one in the intake manifold casting. As for the fuel lift pump (charge pump), it has to work.. .no fuel, no fire. Even within self venting systems, air within the system can and will stop any diesel in its tracks. Another issue often forgotten are bubbles created from frequency issues... they're equally lethal to proper running.

Okay, there's my two cents worth..... have a great bird, all.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Actually, These non-2006 lift pumps are pretty problematic (when they do choose to go). Based on all things checking ok (heaters, psi, etc). I think I am see a drop in pressure over time... IE, the system sits for a few hours and bleeds the needed 5-10psi. I finally have time and means to drop te tank Friday so I will up date.
I am now 100% certain that my fuel tank level has everything to do with the problem I have. I have no problem at >3/4 a tank and a regular issues at <1/2.
Seems to me that the heat of the Colordo sun at 9200ft (in non-winter months) keeps the tank pressure up and takes care of the problem...
We will see.
Happy Thanksgiving and God Bless America!
 
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