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Discussion Starter #1
1st - Thanks to all those who post thier experiences with different mods on exhaust.
Now mine - Based on all the searches I've done here and past expeience with Dynomax Welded mufflers, I started with the Dyno welded with stock resonators.
Big difference in performance (took computer a bit to adjust) but sound was VERY much in control. Sounded MEAN at .5 to full throttle. Just a little "gurgle" at idle. Good scale a 4
Like most dreamers, I wanted more deep bass at idle and still managable cruising.
So I took the chance and replaced the rear muffs with Flowmaster Super 40's.
Once the stock resnonnators were cut off, I had them crank and rev the car. Sounded good!
But I remembered all the "drone issues and had them put the Super 40s on anyway.
Result is a great idle deep tone, good at cruising, but when the tranny drops into 5th...
Not bad intrusive or anything but I swear I was looking for the punk with the 18" sub woofer behind me.
That deep! Really amazing. Took many miles to get a grip on when and why.
Bad part? That bass when at 40 mph is strong deep. Eassy to control with throrrle.
I'll end up pulling the Super 40s for a set of bullet muffs. That should put the sound were I want it without the bass of the Super 40s.
Hopefully, this saves someone some $$$.
Beware the drone!!!
 

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would you please be more specific regarding "Bullet muffs"? I have Flowmaster 40's with the stock resonators. Though the volume is perfect, the tone is not neary deep enough for my liking. I realize it won't sound like my 73 Corvette big block with a chambered system (and I wouldn't want it that loud anyway) but i was wondering if different resonators would deepen the tone at all? Thanks.
 

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Ira, I am in the same exact spot you are right now...I am thinking of cutting off the resonators and putting on glasspacks. BADDAD, have you considered that??
 

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Husker said:
I am thinking of cutting off the resonators and putting on glasspacks. BADDAD, have you considered that??
Been there, done that. Had Super 40's in place of the suitcase and Walker Race Bullets (Glass Packs) in place of the stock reso's. Idle was awesome, rev-up was awesome, highway cruising was awesome, but... there's always one isn't there... the 2000rpm drone just about drove me bonkers. Cut everything off and now have a complete Zoomers cat back and I love it.
 
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Magnaflow 18" mufflers up front, 14" round Magnaflow resonators in rear. Sounds great, flows well, no drone. A little deeper than stock, noticable tone, but not annoying. You don't want to turn this beautiful car into a rice rocket.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
iradodge said:
would you please be more specific regarding "Bullet muffs"? I have Flowmaster 40's with the stock resonators. Though the volume is perfect, the tone is not neary deep enough for my liking. I realize it won't sound like my 73 Corvette big block with a chambered system (and I wouldn't want it that loud anyway) but i was wondering if different resonators would deepen the tone at all? Thanks.
Sorry for delay, I don't check in as much as I use to.
I went with a couple of glasspacks, helped a little but not much. So I went with Magnaflow XL that are not packed for that "ricey" sound they are noted for but very similiar to Flowmaster 50s. They were perfect, barely able to MDS drone until...summer temps hit and the A/C came on. The extra load on the motor made the MDS drone much more noticable and drove me nuts!
In a fit of rage, I grabbed the stock resonnators and head to the shop and had them put back on. It's not as mean or deep as I like but still sounds very good, and not MDS sound. And definetly sounds better than the Zoomers.
IMHO, the pillow bitter sound of the Zoomers sounds like a couple of $20 Honda motors welded on. If you've never heard a mean sounding car, I guess you might like them, but I like the real V-8 gurgle, not "pppffffff" sound.
I wasted a lot of $$$ trying to get it right. If someone says they got a "little" MDS sound or drone and you don't want any, be very carefull what you replace the resonnators with. I might go with a 3 pass Dynomax replacing the resonnators in the future, but for now... I'm in therapy for what I went through already and don't want to open old wounds.
Good luck!
 

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Thanks bro, we're all trying to share our experiences with different approaches, not spending the bucks reinventing the wheel.
 

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I'm thinking about straight piping the V-8 mufflers and leavin the stock resonators... seems like that would keep backpressure and have a mean sound at wot and a tame sound when cruising. Anybody disagree? also there's about a 220 dollar difference in price between the straight pipes and two Flowmaster 40s :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
aries4life said:
I'm thinking about straight piping the V-8 mufflers and leavin the stock resonators... seems like that would keep backpressure and have a mean sound at wot and a tame sound when cruising. Anybody disagree? also there's about a 220 dollar difference in price between the straight pipes and two Flowmaster 40s :D
I've seriously thought about that, too. I might swing by tomorrow and have the shop remove the Dynomaxs and put some oversize pipe in place.
 
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Do NOT go with straight pipes, particularly oversized pipes. Keep the system 2-1/4", and use mufflers at all locations. Eliminating either the suitcase muffler or the resonators will result in heavy droning sound. You want to have a muffler or resonator at both locations. My Dad tried replacing the resonators with straight pipe, and using two mufflers up front in place of the suitcase, and it droned at 1800 rpm big time. He then replicated my system, by adding two 14" Magnaflow round resonators in the rear and it solved the problem.

BTW, you don't want to keep backpressure...but you want to maintain velocity though. Going with oversize pipe loses velocity, which is what you want to keep in order to optimize exhaust scavenging and maintain low-end torque.

The stock rear resonators are particularly restrictive as the core diameter is reduced 1/4 inch inside.

My system is:

(2) Magnaflow 18" mufflers up front, pt#14365
(2) Magnaflow 14" round resonators in the rear, pt#14415
(2) Magnaflow exhaust tips pt #35127

Everything is 2-1/4" diameter with straight-through design to free up restrictions. I retained the stock mandrel-bent exhaust tubing from the factory, and just replaced the mufflers/tips. The whole system installed was $518, it sounds perfect, not too loud, no drone, and I know the system breathes properly without sacrificing low-end torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
MAGNUM FORCE - I got to correct you. Removing the suitecase and leaving the resoonators will not cause drone. Many have done it. Secondly, you state that the pipe inside the res. is smaller. What you don't state is that the pipe is flatten allowing the engineers to tune out unwanted noise. NASCAR also flattens exhaust pipes for clearance. This does not change the internal volume of the pipe by flattening it.
That's why dodge did away with the 3 pass suitecase on the Daytona RT's and kept the resonnators. Read below.



Dodge to Boost 5.7-liter HEMI to 350 Horsepower

Just in time for the Dodge Charger Daytona R/T launch, Chrysler Group engineers have muscled out even more horsepower from the legendary HEMI engine. The 2006 Dodge Charger Daytona R/T will feature a five-speed automatic transmission with AutoStick® and a 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engine that offers an estimated 350 horsepower and 390 lb.-ft. of torque -- ten more horses than the previous 5.7-liter HEMI -- for even more power in this modern rear-wheel-drive muscle car.

Chrysler Group engineers developed uniquely tuned intake and exhaust systems to unleash some of the HEMI engine's untapped power for the Dodge Charger Daytona R/T. By using a less restrictive intake system and moving to a straight-through muffler from a three-pass muffler, the newly tuned 5.7-liter HEMI gets a 10-horsepower boost and a throaty, high-performance tone to match.
 
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BAD DAD said:
MAGNUM FORCE - I got to correct you. Removing the suitecase and leaving the resoonators will not cause drone. Many have done it. Secondly, you state that the pipe inside the res. is smaller. What you don't state is that the pipe is flatten allowing the engineers to tune out unwanted noise. NASCAR also flattens exhaust pipes for clearance. This does not change the internal volume of the pipe by flattening it.
That's why dodge did away with the 3 pass suitecase on the Daytona RT's and kept the resonnators. Read below.
BADDAD, with all due respect, I don't know if you read my post above, but as I said, my Father, who also owns a Magnum R/T, tried replacing the stock resonators with straight pipe, and the resonance, or "drone", was unbearable. His was one of many experiences of someone who tried doing that and it resulted in drone. Some people may like the deep bass tone and think it sounds tough....not me, especially on this car.

Dodge to Boost 5.7-liter HEMI to 350 Horsepower

Just in time for the Dodge Charger Daytona R/T launch, Chrysler Group engineers have muscled out even more horsepower from the legendary HEMI engine. The 2006 Dodge Charger Daytona R/T will feature a five-speed automatic transmission with AutoStick® and a 5.7-liter HEMI V-8 engine that offers an estimated 350 horsepower and 390 lb.-ft. of torque -- ten more horses than the previous 5.7-liter HEMI -- for even more power in this modern rear-wheel-drive muscle car.

Chrysler Group engineers developed uniquely tuned intake and exhaust systems to unleash some of the HEMI engine's untapped power for the Dodge Charger Daytona R/T. By using a less restrictive intake system and moving to a straight-through muffler from a three-pass muffler, the newly tuned 5.7-liter HEMI gets a 10-horsepower boost and a throaty, high-performance tone to match.
This quote is talking about the '06 Charger Daytona, which uses a less restrictive intake, and has replaced the 3-pass suitcase (found on the 340hp Dodge Magnum) with a single, straight through muffler (hmmn...just like the Magnaflow's I put on my car), and yielded 10 extra horsepower. It doesn't say what changes, if any were made to the rear resonators.

I just went out to the garage, and stuck a piece of pipe, measuring 1-3/4" up into the outlet of the stock resonator (I kept it laying around), and it fits tightly into the core. A 2-1/4" O.D. pipe will have a 2" I.D (typical 1/8" wall tubing). This one has an I.D of 1-3/4". The rest of the system is 2-1/4" up to this point. Therefore, there is a reduction by 1/4" as I stated above.

Here's a photo of the suitcase muffler and a resonator cut open to show the internals: http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44840&highlight=suitcase+resonator

Yes, part of the piping is oversized and flattened, but the outlet pipe is a perfectly round 2" O.D. Look at the pictures and judge for yourself if the system looks restrictive to you. Apparently DC engineers thought it was.
 

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I think you misunderstand... I agree that the stock resonators don't flow as good as something aftermarket, but it sounds like you heard me wrong. You said your dad replaced the resonators with straight pipes and it droned, this is to be expected. They are there to kill the drone, this is their only purpose. I am considering replacing the "suitcase" with two 2.25" pipes and utilizing the stock resonators to kill the drone. I was wondering if anybody had kept their resonators and ditched the suitcase in favor of a simple straight pipe setup. Just seems like it would do the trick. I wouldn't want to even waste 80 dollars on a straight pipe setup if somebody could tell me from experience that it sounds bad. But if it sounds good and doesn't drone then I will look forward to doing it. Thanks for the cutaway link, I have wondered what they look like on the inside.
 
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I understand your post, and I still think you will have unwanted resonance, since you're getting rid of the muffler, and unfortunately, you will still have the weakest link (most restrictive component) in your exhaust system.

Seems like the goal would be to enhance breathing ability, and achieve a nice, deeper sound without getting too noisy, or enducing the drone. You can always try it and see what happens, I'd be interested to hear your results.

I would not go to oversized pipes. That is the one difference between mine and my Dad's systems...he went to 2-1/2" pipes. And driving his car, I instantly noticed how much more sluggish it feels off the line.
 

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Here is what I did on my RT that is now a year old and has 10,000 miles on it. All exhaust mods were done right after I got my RT last July, the stock car was just too quiet for me. Since I like FlowMasters, I first replaced the original suitcase muffler with 2 series 40 FlowMaster mufflers, it is a tight fit putting them were the suitcase was. I drove the car for a month (still had the original rear resonators in place), car was still too quiet for me. I then had the rear resonators removed and put in custom bent straight tubing and reused the original chrome factory tips. Car sounded mean and great! But the drone at highway speeds was terrible, I put up with it for about 3 months because I loved the exhaust sound. Back to the muffler shop and replaced the straight tubing with a couple of small (12") resonators, the straight through kind. Car is a little quieter, still sounds good and no more drone.

I love the results...................

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hit it on the head. We've been talking about replacing the suitcase, not the resonnators.
You at least need something in the back as straight pipes in place of the resonnators will kill with drone.
The stock resonnators are not as restrictive as you think, they flow very well. Enough that when you lose the suitcase, you pick up 10 hp (from Dodge).
Here's a link with pics. Not that they are a two chamber design with a tuning tube for resonnance. The flatten pipe I reffered to is seen. This resonnator is NOT the most restrictive piece of the exhaust system. The further away the restriction is from the motor, the less effect it has.
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44840
I bought some Super 40's last night. They should be on by the weekend. I'll make before and after vids.
The BUG bit me again!!!
 
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So you're going to go with the Super 40's again, after you mentioned in your first post that you took them off because of the drone?

And you say that just because the resonators are the furthest from the motor that they aren't restrictive? Does that mean if I extend the pipe another 6 feet and neck it down another 1/4" it won't have any effect on power?
 

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Folks, bear in mind a lot of the talk about what sounds like what to someone is entirely subjective. Bad Dad's comments on the Zoomers are valid for him but to me sound just plain ridiculous. Again thats not a knock on him, its just a difference of subjective opinion. You will find tons of Zoomers owners (they are almost finished with their second group buy over at lxforums.com) who will echo the same opinion, and its not because we want to salve our wounded egos at getting a sucky exhaust.

I will agree that a Zoomers system sounds more refined within the first few weeks of its lifespan. Refined being along the lines of an old V8 Ferrari as opposed to the glug-glug of an American muscle car. It doesn't get burbly until its burned in after a few weeks.

The following page has a video with sound (look for the link in the top 1/3 of the page. It'll be obvious). Its 14mb in size. Right-click and Save Target As. Then run it off your own local system.

http://foohbar.com/the_empire_strikes_back.cfm

Also on my home speakers it sounds identical to real life, but I've heard someone say they thought it sounded overmodulated, and on my office speakers its not perfect, so I can see where some folks' hardware may be a factorl.

This was a warm idle. At cold idle there's a lot more of that muscle-car burble.

Lastly, I've spoken to one Magnum owner who cut of the suitcase and he a)loved the sound and b)agreed that it droned pretty bad, but he liked the sound so much he was willing to live with it. If you cut open one of these 'resonators' you'll see its basically a muffler. 'resonator' brings to mind a pass-thru kinda thing and these suckers surely aren't that. Just pick one up and you'll realize how much metal is hiding inside that big poofy thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
MAGNUM FORCE said:
So you're going to go with the Super 40's again, after you mentioned in your first post that you took them off because of the drone?

And you say that just because the resonators are the furthest from the motor that they aren't restrictive? Does that mean if I extend the pipe another 6 feet and neck it down another 1/4" it won't have any effect on power?

MAG - Yes, I had Super 40's in place of the resonnators, with the Dynomax in place of the suitcase. Now I'm going with Super 40's in place of the Dynomax hoping for more "V8 Gurgle". If I like that, then I'll pull the resonnators and put Dynomax Supers on in place.
And yes, talk with anyone who has raced or built motors for 25 years and the more pipe you have and the further your muffler is from the motor, the less effect the restriction is. Of course, corking the system is not going to work. The point is you are able to have more internal are to equalize the pressure before it becomes over pressurized.
You keep mentioning the resonnator reduction in size of pipe. It does not reduce in size, simply the two chamber design uses a stamped, flatten piece that has as much internal flow as the rest of the system. Just like NASCAR exhaust. It is tuned to kill the harsh tone of MDS.

MattRobertson - You are dead right. Sound is subjective. Those coffee can exhaust on Honda's actually sound good to some people. That's all they grew up hearing, so they think it's good.
I grew up with true muscle car and like a mean sound. I remember racing SCCA in my Mudstang and a guy in a 5.0 rolled up with a Magnaflow exhaust, revving it. I laughed at the guy and asked him who stuffed pillow up his exhaust...He was pissed, he thought it sound "exotic" like a ferrari.
It's all about what you like. Zoomers might be the latest flavor and maybe sound good once broken. Magnaflows use to be the latest, then the Flowmaster cat back. Slowly, you started seeing comments about drone and strange volume. All the classsifieds say the same thing - "My wife doesn't like it". I've already seen one for the Zoomers using that line. Next will be the Bassani when people hear how good they sound...and they sound sweet!
I wouldn't want to pay that much to find out those baffled tips that control noise will pack down and the drone will creep in over time. Not saying it will, but with every muffler, baffled tip, or glasspack I've ever heard or used, it's the same thing over time. The get louder and louder.
I'd rather experiment with my own setup and find out what works, what doesn't.
End the end, I'll spend no more than the guys paying $800 for a pre-fab system+install. That's the way I like it. My car, my rolling test bed.
Not trying to flame, folks. Just pass resonnable experience. FWIW!
Peace!
 

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If you really want a great sounding exhaust system, you must get rid of the catalitic converters. I speak from experience, that is what I did on my old 96' Impala SS. I deleted the catylitic converters, ran Flowmaster 40's and the car sounded like it had a big block motor in it...........
I had lots of guys ask me what motor I was running in it, it was just the stock 350 motor.
Of course this is illegal, and most states do pollution testing now.

FYI, Florida stopped testing car pollution a few years ago because we have such clean air, I am from Illinois originally.

Am 65 and still love to make cars go faster..........

Bob
 
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