[L5wolvesf]

Hi all,

I really like the idea Bherder had regarding setting up the relay upgrades in a box like later model vehicles do. So, last trip to the jy I did some “research” and found a couple of good possibilities for the box. I kept my search to the Dodge family of vehicles. I have attached pics of what I picked up.

The fancy option would be the box from a 2000 ish Voyager. It is really heavy duty and has lots of spaces for relays and fuses etc. It has a pretty neat pivot arrangement to access the bottom of the box if needed. Problem is it big and has way more spaces than I think I/we would really need, its internals are inside a riveted part of the box and the factory bracket doesn’t fit well under the hood.

The one I will start my project on is from a 1995 Caravan. It is about half the size of the other, has slots for relays and fuses, the top and bottom (for internal access) both open fairly easily, but should not fall open if bouncing around off-road, the relay schematic should be easy to relabel and has a mounting bracket that should easily fit near the battery tray. The pics show the ’95 box in it’s various parts.

The items I plan on wiring into the box are; headlights, wipers, electric fan, horn (possibly), and any additional lights. I also noticed there is a relay for the starter. Would there be an advantage to wiring this into the truck’s system?

My next step is to figure out how the relay/fuse wiring modules are set up to see how I would best go about rewiring it. I also would like to figure a way to totally weather proof the box. What I would like to get my hands on is a wiring diagram of the box. I have not been able to find one online. Any suggestion or comments on this project would be appreciated before I dig into it.

L

 

[L5wolvesf]

pics attached

 

[L5wolvesf]

pics attached

again

 

[DiverDwnPowrRam]

good stuff!

 

[bherder]

Hey there L5 .... Now that looks like the ticket. (I was thinking of the same box when eyeballing my kids 94' Caravan )

I looked in the Haynes manual for my son's Caravan, but all they show are schematic by 'section' .... They don't have a 'bumper to bumper' schematic like my truck.
Once you have the pin-outs on the relays memorized it should be very easy for you to figure out how you want to wire things up. I'm on my 'backup' computer right now, so I don't have access to my files about this stuff.
By the time I figure out what wrong with my 'main' computer, you'll probably have it figured out .... But I'll keep an eye here.

But yeah, that looks like the way to go. Maybe one day when I forget how much work I put into what I have already, I'll do the same thing.

 

[bherder]

Ah, OK ... Here we go (Damn $15.00 'Made in China' network cards.. )

See the pics of what relays you'll find in your magic box ..
These relays are very universal... connections 85 & 86 are the connections to power the coil to open/close the relay ....
And I don't think it matters which way they're hooked up, polarity-wise, as I've tested them either way and I've always heard it go 'click-click' .... I MAY BE WRONG about that though, so the best thing is to see which connection is the 'positive' side on the relays. I haven't taken one of these apart, but it looks like you'll find a fused (I would assume) buss bar connecting all of the, either 85 connection or the 86 connection. Figure out which one and stick with that.
So far as the 'relayed' (Switched) end of it, connection 30 will be your common connection. connection 30 and 87a are closed (connected) then the relay is UNenergized. I doubt you'll ever need this configuration (I never have) unless you find you need to piggy-back two relays for a 'high-low' situation. But like I say, you'll most likely never need 87a ...
What you will want is 87 ... When the coil/relay is energized 30 & 87 make contact.

So basically what you want for the device end of the relay is:

Power - fuse - connection 30 - power going to device from 87 - device - ground.
If you tap off the original wiring to energize the coil/relay, all that stuff should be already fused (Factory fuse box) .... Keep in mind that the relay is going to draw minimal amperage. Like maybe only an amp or two.

My only other suggestion would be, instead of butt-splicing wires to the fuse/relay box, might be to replace the wires/spade connectors in the box itself. I DONT KNOW, but I'm GUESSING that they're some sort of 'push in snap in place' female 1/4" spade terminals? (Damn, I'm gonna have to get one and take it apart) ... If you can buy new terminals where you can run wire from them to 'wherever', this would be MUCH better/reliable (And neater) than having wiring with a ton of butt-splices ....

Anyway, hope this helps and keep us up on how it goes.

 

[75 Power Wagon]

that looks good... I've been looking to change the in-cab fuse box over to a modern style fuse block.. I've actually already picked up an 18-circuit generic fuse block that will work very well... Been trying to figure out what I could do with the relay setup. Now I'm thinking I might put some type of relay box inside the engine compartment... We will have to see.. probably wont get around to redoing the wiring until next winter though...

 

[L5wolvesf]

good stuff!

Herder gets the idea credit.

 

[L5wolvesf]

that looks good... I've been looking to change the in-cab fuse box over to a modern style fuse block.. I've actually already picked up an 18-circuit generic fuse block that will work very well... Been trying to figure out what I could do with the relay setup. Now I'm thinking I might put some type of relay box inside the engine compartment... We will have to see.. probably wont get around to redoing the wiring until next winter though...

For me this project is not meant to replace the in cab fuse box. It is part of the wiring clean up, relay addition, and power supply (ammeter) issue these trucks have.

Here is where I think the box will be installed (only the bracket shown). It should clear the hood hinge and spring, is close to much of the wiring I will need to connect to, and is easy to access. May need to trim part of the bracket to fine tune the mounting. I’m gonna leave it there for a while to see if anything happens while I’m driving.

If this doesn’t work out then my next spot may be on the fender well about where the starter relay is now. But I’m not real fond of that location due to dirt, splashing etc.

 

[L5wolvesf]

I haven't taken one of these apart, but it looks like you'll find a fused (I would assume) buss bar connecting all of the, either 85 connection or the 86 connection. Figure out which one and stick with that.

My only other suggestion would be, instead of butt-splicing wires to the fuse/relay box, might be to replace the wires/spade connectors in the box itself. I DONT KNOW, but I'm GUESSING that they're some sort of 'push in snap in place' female 1/4" spade terminals? (Damn, I'm gonna have to get one and take it apart) ... If you can buy new terminals where you can run wire from them to 'wherever', this would be MUCH better/reliable (And neater) than having wiring with a ton of butt-splices ....

Anyway, hope this helps and keep us up on how it goes.

It does look like there is a common bar across most of the relays. If you look at the pic you will see blue pieces (not sure what to call them) and there is a silver metal connector attached to each one which are part of the buss bar you mentioned. One of my questions is how do you remove the blue piece? I believe we would need to to change out the spade terminals.

Yes I would prefer to use new terminals if they are available. But that blue piece is blocking access to them.

It is just in the planning stage right now.

Re: the Haynes manual for my son's Caravan . . .
I may ask you post up a few of these if you don’t mind. I already found the starter wiring schematic (for a ’96). Does the owner’s manual have anything useful?

L

 

[bherder]

L5wolvesf;Herder gets the idea credit.

Well, I'll take a pat on the back, (Or a case of whiskey) but I won't take credit ... I'm SURE someone else thought this up before it crossed my meager mind....

One of my questions is how do you remove the blue piece? I believe we would need to to change out the spade terminals.

We're counting on you to break it and figure it all out.

I believe we would need to to change out the spade terminals.

Yup ... I agree 100% ... A bunch of butt-splices, is only going to lead to trouble somewhere down the line. Besides, I can imagine where one might want to use a thicker wire gauge for... say ... Headlights ... Than what comes on the Caravan 'Magic Box' ..

I may ask you post up a few of these if you don’t mind.

No prob. I was looking at them a bit today and for each 'system' there is almost always a relay wired up to them. I'd of loved to see a 'bumper-to-bumper' schematic with the 'power buss' somewhere in there. I'm gonna guess though, having had to work on my son's Caravan, and with ALL the electrical gizmos on it, printing out a bumper-to-bumper schematic would have been next to impossible. Or REALLY hard to read!

I already found the starter wiring schematic (for a ’96). Does the owner’s manual have anything useful?

Keep in mind ... What I have is a Haynes. Pretty crappy at best, considering it was $20.00 .... I just bought that because I bought my kid this rig so he'd have a dependable rig to run around/get to and from college/ .. in.
I just wanted SOMEthing to give me a 'clue' if I needed to work on it..

 

[L5wolvesf]

Hey Herd,

Could you post up the wiring diagram for the radiator fan system?

L

 

[bherder]

Sure, here ya go.. This is the way mine is set up...
I have a toggle switch on the dash, so I can run the fan manually if I want, and I also have a little light on the dash that comes on when the fan is running. I just like a visual, so I know it's on..

 

[B-300]

I would connect the optional switch from the 30 to the 85 terminal so it's downstream of the fuse for protection.

 

[bherder]

I suppose you could, but the amperage to activate the relay is so minimal (Like an amp or less) I didn't see the need.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Sure, here ya go.. This is the way mine is set up...
I have a toggle switch on the dash, so I can run the fan manually if I want, and I also have a little light on the dash that comes on when the fan is running. I just like a visual, so I know it's on..

Hey Herd,

Actually what I was looking for is the fan wiring diagram from your Haynes manual. Since it is already wired into the relay box and I have a fan and sensor I want to do a mock up (off of the truck) to see if I can make it work.

L

 

[L5wolvesf]

Here is where I think the box will be installed (only the bracket shown). It should clear the hood hinge and spring, is close to much of the wiring I will need to connect to, and is easy to access. May need to trim part of the bracket to fine tune the mounting. I’m gonna leave it there for a while to see if anything happens while I’m driving.

If this doesn’t work out then my next spot may be on the fender well about where the starter relay is now. But I’m not real fond of that location due to dirt, splashing etc.

Well here is the first change to the "plan". The relay box doesn't clear the hood spring as I thought it would. So after some exhaustive research (a beer and Daytona qualifying) I am going with the pictured set up. All I need to do is cobble up a bracket - unless I find a small skyhook Laying around.

 

[bherder]

Hey Herd,

Actually what I was looking for is the fan wiring diagram from your Haynes manual.

Mmmmm .... If you're looking for one for an old school Pick-um-up, that won't happen, cuz there isn't any.
If you're looking for one to, say, a Caravan, I don't have that either. I've got a Caravan fan in my rig, but it's pretty easy to figure out the wiring on yer own. The fan has 4 wires. Two ground and one for low/high speed. Play with that (If that's what you're gonna use) you'll figure it out.

Since it is already wired into the relay box and I have a fan and sensor I want to do a mock up (off of the truck) to see if I can make it work.

Since I don't have a magical box sitting in front of me....
Hey .... Figure it out ... Be a pioneer... You'll get it....

 

[buck99]

I've been thinking about installing the same relay box for quite a long time. This one is out of a 94 Plymouth Grand Voyager.
I have my version of a wiring diagram for the box if any one is interested. It is in a Excel spread sheet so you would need that program to view it.

As you can see by the attached pictures my truck is in a million pieces but, believe it or not, I am making progress...

I made the bracket out of 22g sheet metal with 3 breaks in it to strengthen it. I will paint it body colour to match. I'm making a similar bracket for the pass side fender for my MSD ignition.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Good stuff, keep us up to date on your progress.

Thanks,
L