[acjrocks]

So I cranked them up. The truck looks great and feels great so far. Thanks to all the guys that provided input on this. Here's a link to my documented experience doing this. Hopefully this will come in handy to people that want to do this but think it's too hard. Simplest thing ever.

Cranking my torsion bars

 

[Rob]

see below.

 

[Rob]

Don't take this the wrong way but having read your description of how you achieved your "leveling" has me shaking my head. Not taking the load of the bars by lifting the front with a jack and then using a fence poll as an extension it sounds like your lucky not to have snapped the bolts. Your certainly going to have weakened them. Your little session under your truck may well end up costing you far more than the $40 you were quoted to have the job done by someone who knew what they were doing and had the right tools to do it.
Good luck with your front drivetrain and any warranty work on it and looking forward to such "detailed" descriptions of your future "modifications".
There is a reason that trucks have the stance they do. They are intended to be used as a working vehicle and that can mean carrying stuff and towing items. As you load the vehicle it starts to level out. If it is already level and weight is placed in it or on the tow bar it would be tail down. Not good. Most leveling is done for cosmetic purposes and would restrict the capacity to some extent to be able to haul.

 

[Duckbutter48]

In the before and after profile pic that is on top does it look like the front end is higher then the back in or is it just me?

 

[Tommyboy1]

glad it worked out for ya, probably easier if you had jacked up the front end, but atleast nothing broke, good job!!!

 

[acjrocks]

Don't take this the wrong way but having read your description of how you achieved your "leveling" has me shaking my head. Not taking the load of the bars by lifting the front with a jack and then using a fence poll as an extension it sounds like your lucky not to have snapped the bolts. Your certainly going to have weakened them. Your little session under your truck may well end up costing you far more than the $40 you were quoted to have the job done by someone who knew what they were doing and had the right tools to do it.
Good luck with your front drivetrain and any warranty work on it and looking forward to such "detailed" descriptions of your future "modifications".
There is a reason that trucks have the stance they do. They are intended to be used as a working vehicle and that can mean carrying stuff and towing items. As you load the vehicle it starts to level out. If it is already level and weight is placed in it or on the tow bar it would be tail down. Not good. Most leveling is done for cosmetic purposes and would restrict the capacity to some extent to be able to haul.

Thanks for your reply. I was able to turn it a couple of times just by hand so it wasn't like stuck. I could have gone the rest of the way just by using my hand but it only made sense to use something longer to put more pressure on it. Again, I didn't force anything. It was easily moveable, but it just made the job easier. Paying the $40 to get this done by people that "have the right tools" is pointless because I had the right tools. If anything I needed a longer ballsocket tool but a longer one does have the same effect as putting an extender on it. Would the $40 people have turned the bolt just like me and would they have leveled it like me? Oh yeah. I saved me $40. I do admit I maybe I should have jacked it before I did it but does it make a difference performance wise if I jacked it or not?

I did level it for cosmetic purposes. I rarely haul and if I ever do it's definitely not something that can bring the back down. I'm just another person doing this to make it look good. One of many. Anyone else have an opinion on the whole fence pole deal? I think I was right in doing that because again, it's only common sense to make the job easier and since it was easily moving, why not. Was I wrong in doing that? Does it make a difference now that I didn't do it without jacking it?

In regards to the picture where it looks like the front is higher than the rear, it's actually the driveway. It goes up as you enter the garage therefore it's higher in the front. I should have taken a picture while on a plain surface.

 

[Tommyboy1]

i always use a fence post to break free bolts and peoples heads, hahahaha

 

[Rob]

Quite an edit you made there.
Do what you wish, no skin off my nose. Am a good 1500 miles away and your home mods are unlikely to effect me.
In your thread asking for advice it was mentioned that the job is better performed with the weight of the truck off the front suspension, you having the right tools could have used your floor jack to lift it and then placed your axle stands to make the vehicle safe. The braking bar in your socket set would be the right tool, sorry forgot you had a fence post. Must remember to get one for my tool chest.
If you think it's OK then you'll be happy but remember you asked how to do the job not even knowing what a torsion bar was, where it was, what it did and how to adjust it. If that doesn't set some alarms ringing just let me know when you want to work on your brakes and I promise I'll say nothing and stay out of S.W. Texas.
On the matter of other people doing it. Their choice. I would ask the senior tech at your local dealership what he thinks. After all he see's the trucks every day at work and is in touch with DCX on training and tech info. If it's approved by DCX I guess it's OK.
As mentioned before. You are now your own warranty. Just remember you have made a significant change in the permanant angle the CV joints are running at, it may well be outside there design parameters.

 

[RaiderNick]

Good points by rtes. I have considered cranking my t-bar as well.

However, in regards to angle of the CV joints a couple of questions. First, I have measured at least 5 different '04 4x4s to get some idea of how low or high my truck is in relation to other factory setups. What I have noticed that even from the factory there can be as much as a 1" to 1.25" difference in height of the front and rear of each truck. Does that mean that some of the trucks that come from the factory a bit more level are at risk of CV failure?

Second, Aren't CV joints designed to flux back and forth? I mean there is no such
thing as perfectly smooth road. So how would moving the angle of the T-bar even 1" to 1.5" hurt the CV joints? Especially when your adjustment is within other factory setups on the road?

 

[Rob]

Good points by rtes. I have considered cranking my t-bar as well.

However, in regards to angle of the CV joints a couple of questions. First, I have measured at least 5 different '04 4x4s to get some idea of how low or high my truck is in relation to other factory setups. What I have noticed that even from the factory there can be as much as a 1" to 1.25" difference in height of the front and rear of each truck. Does that mean that some of the trucks that come from the factory a bit more level are at risk of CV failure?

Second, Aren't CV joints designed to flux back and forth? I mean there is no such
thing as perfectly smooth road. So how would moving the angle of the T-bar even 1" to 1.5" hurt the CV joints? Especially when your adjustment is within other factory setups on the road?

If you take the cost of an alignment in to the equation a just as economical way to level a truck is to fit shorter shackles for the leaf springs. You'd not be affecting the integrity of your complex and expensive front drive train. And not affecting your warranty. What I meant in my previous post was lifting the front by cranking the torsion bars 2" is going to affect the perminant angle the CV joint's are running at, all four of them. Sure they are made to react to road changes, bumps and such but if you lift on the front they will run at a more acute angle. Have a look underneath at the angle that they are at now and imagine how much that will be permanently changed running in a different position. My choice for a level truck would defiantly be rear shackles.
Try asking Slammed1 if you want a suspension gurus professional opinion. He knows his stuff and sells the right parts for the job.

 

[acjrocks]

Quite an edit you made there.
Do what you wish, no skin off my nose. Am a good 1500 miles away and your home mods are unlikely to effect me.
In your thread asking for advice it was mentioned that the job is better performed with the weight of the truck off the front suspension, you having the right tools could have used your floor jack to lift it and then placed your axle stands to make the vehicle safe. The braking bar in your socket set would be the right tool, sorry forgot you had a fence post. Must remember to get one for my tool chest.
If you think it's OK then you'll be happy but remember you asked how to do the job not even knowing what a torsion bar was, where it was, what it did and how to adjust it. If that doesn't set some alarms ringing just let me know when you want to work on your brakes and I promise I'll say nothing and stay out of S.W. Texas.
On the matter of other people doing it. Their choice. I would ask the senior tech at your local dealership what he thinks. After all he see's the trucks every day at work and is in touch with DCX on training and tech info. If it's approved by DCX I guess it's OK.
As mentioned before. You are now your own warranty. Just remember you have made a significant change in the permanant angle the CV joints are running at, it may well be outside there design parameters.

Ha. Don't take it personal man. I'm just replying to your posts. When I asked for assistance with this, yes, some people did suggest jacking it up. But notice how the majority said it's not needed? The reasoning behind jacking it is to make the job easier. Doing it without the lift was fine.

I did mention in my edit as far as tools needed, I was missing a longer ballsocket tool. Doesn't a braking bar make the turning easier? A pole does the same thing. Only difference is it can do more.

I did ask for assistance cause obviously I'm a beginner. I have never claimed to know everything. After researching I know where it is. I know how to adjust it. I know a lot more. What's NOT ok with this? Read the posts. I read every single one and even spoke to professionals in person. I did my research. Would the pro people have turned the bolt in a special way? Nope. Nothing special about it.

Spoke to the dealership and they say it's done all the time. It does not void the warranty. I guess I'm still under warranty huh.

 

[Rob]

Ha. Don't take it personal man. I'm just replying to your posts. When I asked for assistance with this, yes, some people did suggest jacking it up. But notice how the majority said it's not needed? The reasoning behind jacking it is to make the job easier. Doing it without the lift was fine.

I did mention in my edit as far as tools needed, I was missing a longer ballsocket tool. Doesn't a braking bar make the turning easier? A pole does the same thing. Only difference is it can do more.

I did ask for assistance cause obviously I'm a beginner. I have never claimed to know everything. After researching I know where it is. I know how to adjust it. I know a lot more. What's NOT ok with this? Read the posts. I read every single one and even spoke to professionals in person. I did my research. Would the pro people have turned the bolt in a special way? Nope. Nothing special about it.

Spoke to the dealership and they say it's done all the time. It does not void the warranty. I guess I'm still under warranty huh.

Your saying the dealerships official position is that it's OK to increase the preload on torsion bars, especially when done without removing the weight of the vehicle first and using a fence post?
You have any idea how much torque you can apply with longer leavers?
They will honer any warranty work on the front of your vehicle?
Wonder if DCX knows how generous they are.

 

[KIP311]

So anyway....... Looks better, how many turns did you do???????

 

[acjrocks]

Your saying the dealerships official position is that it's OK to increase the preload on torsion bars, especially when done without removing the weight of the vehicle first and using a fence post?
You have any idea how much torque you can apply with longer leavers?
They will honer any warranty work on the front of your vehicle?
Wonder if DCX knows how generous they are.

It doesn't matter if it was done without lifting it or not or if it was done with a fence pole or with a sled of dogs helping with the push. You're turning the bolt. That's it.

And yes sir. Dealership says its covered. I'll be there after the hurricane passes to get them to align it.

Thanks for the complement KIP311. I went 8 for the passenger and 9 for the drivers. Maybe I went too far but maybe I didn't. The pro people said there is nothing wrong with going the max of 2.5 inches, other than you'll notice a bit rougher ride. They did recommend the keys if I wanted to go past that. It's parked right now. Can't drive it around during this damn hurricane. After driving it around I may reasses the number of turns.

 

[Rob]

It doesn't matter if it was done without lifting it or not or if it was done with a fence pole or with a sled of dogs helping with the push. You're turning the bolt. That's it.

I think your now showing how little you really know. It does matter.
Dude not trying to rain on your parade, enjoy your handiwork. I mean it.

 

[Rob]

Dude not trying to rain on your parade.

Good luck with the weather.
It turns out this is another issue that a lot of people come down one side or other on, been doing some reading in past posts on it and can see a familiar pattern to it all.
One of my brother-in-laws is a Dodge parts manager and have asked him to check both with his dealership and with his contact at DCX on a definitive answer on this issue.
He did mention that the drive shafts on our Polaris quads are CV and run at extreme angles and we have never broken one so maybe I was being over cautious on this.
Will post when I know more.
Watch out for that weather.

 

[RV Guy]

I have, in previous posts regarding t-bar cranks, responded with both the positive and of course the possible negative affects of cranking t-bars. I did so with facts and no malicious undertones. Honestly, a crank is done for strictly cosmetic purposes. I do tow (28 ft travel trailer) and I do plan on lifting the front for looks. The head tech at my local dealership whom I know very well (small town) recommends no more that 4 turns per. He also recommends I install a set of air bags on the rear to counter any front end load lift. I agree since I have used these on a previous Ram. I have ordered Rancho shocks which are longer for the front to prevent topping out of stock shocks during offroad conditions. All these things are stated over and over again on many previous posts. Your meathod of cranking obviously raised a few eyebrows I believe simply because of verbage. The crank is done, check your stock shocks to be sure you do not top out. The amount of turns you did are above the average if you read other posts. You may, and I repeat may want to consider turning them down a couple before you spend the money on the realignment. RTES's comments were indicative of someone having a bad day or of someone with a very plain no frill white truck with no intention of improving the looks. LOL. Oh yea, I'm just kidding "no skin off my nose."

Drive with pride. :gr_patrio

 

[Rob]

RV Guy your right on two counts.
It's not a good day.
My no frills truck is just that, my truck, just want it to be as efficient as it can be and don't give a dam how it looks, I even had the chrome deleted, bit of a joke there, the rear bumper is chrome just painted over. Still it took another $400 off the price. I have to have a 4X4 for the winter and the dogs. Function over form not form over function.
My daily ride is from Germany and the other half's from Japan. Mercedes Benz(sort of Dodge) and a Lexus. I do care how they look.

 

[hemi_power87]

haha that was a humerous thread.

 

[Tommyboy1]

The amount of turns you did are above the average if you read other posts. You may, and I repeat may want to consider turning them down a couple before you spend the money on the realignment.

but if you uncrank them down remember to crank them up one turn to preload the torsion bars, otherwise big problems, someone who knows more please clarify this in more detail!!!