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Bill3491
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Discussion Starter #1
I recently put in a 6.1 cam and I'm wondering what the symptoms would be if the cam gear was one tooth off and if there's a way to check without pulling the cover all the way off? Since I put the cam in it idles rougher than stock, but has not thrown any codes.

If it's off, I would have to guess it's retarded. Without Superchips and when the intake air temp is hot, the engine sounds like it's had a lot of timing pulled and idles rougher. The exaust gets that "pump sound". I plug in the infamous power wire and get a little timing advance and it sounds better, but still has the rough idle.

I did marked the cam and chain, but my mark on the crank rubbed off, and in a hurry, I used the 12/2 and logo to line up the crank real quick. I'm trying to avoid pulling the front cover off to check because I think I will have to cut the darn ATI balancer hub off the crank to get it off.

Info/ideas appreciated
 

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Well I havent done mine yet... but I will say if I worked on a car at work.. and it didnt run good.. I would tear it back down... Not going to fix itself..
 

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my sidewinder was a tooth off advanced, it threw the p016 code or what ever it was. It ran for a few mins before the code, and it ran fine for 20 min before we shut it down and took it apart. The 12-2 has to bet dead nutz or it will be off a tooth. Sounds like you need to take it apart.
 

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Do you guys rotate the crank 5-6 revolutions to make sure everything is still in line?
 

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Inertia ROCKS!!!!
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Well I have never personally seen a cam a tooth off that didn't throw the P0016 code, not to say it will always, I just never seen it. There really is no way to verify correct timing without removing the front cover...arrow on cam sprocket at 12:00, keyway on oil pump at 2:00 and lines up with Chrysler symbol. Another possibility for a rough idle could be a pushrod popped out of the rocker arm or in the wrong hole. Personally I'd remove the valvecovers first to make sure the pushrods are seated correctly.
 

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ASE approved
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Well I have never personally seen a cam a tooth off that didn't throw the P0016 code, not to say it will always, I just never seen it. There really is no way to verify correct timing without removing the front cover...arrow on cam sprocket at 12:00, keyway on oil pump at 2:00 and lines up with Chrysler symbol. Another possibility for a rough idle could be a pushrod popped out of the rocker arm or in the wrong hole. Personally I'd remove the valvecovers first to make sure the pushrods are seated correctly.
X2.

that is the reason i degree every cam that i install. i have cought a few mistakes in the past but it was a simple fix as i was still in there messing with it. but i have yet to fully assemble a motor and have the cam off. and trust me for the past 2 years i have averaged about a cam a month (and to be honest im sick of doing them) you need to be dead on with your timing marks or more than likely you will be off a little.

but start simple and verify that your pushrods are seated correctly first. I agree with sam 100% more than likely its a bent push rod or noe that is not seated properly.
 

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paul
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I'm leaning more tors the valve train too, did you swap the springs?
 

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Bill3491
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Discussion Starter #9
Before I tear it down I wanted to see if there was a way around it. If it wasn't for that ATI balancer I would have done it already. If I have to cut off the sleave I have to shell out $140 for a new one. I'll check the pushrods this weekend then take a shot at the balancer. Is the timing chain tensioner adjustable?
 

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Tricked out Ram
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When I first did my Sidewinder I was off. I was so dissapointed because I didnt know until everything was back together and trying to start it. Thankfully Sam confirmed it and the next day I had to take it all back apart again and do it over. I dont worry about getting the chain lined back up with the black links as long as the cam gear is at 12 and the crank keyway is DEAD on the symbol.
 

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Inertia ROCKS!!!!
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Before I tear it down I wanted to see if there was a way around it. If it wasn't for that ATI balancer I would have done it already. If I have to cut off the sleave I have to shell out $140 for a new one. I'll check the pushrods this weekend then take a shot at the balancer. Is the timing chain tensioner adjustable?
Huh? Explain what you mean. To get the ATI damper off just use a $15 steering wheel puller. No the tensioner is not adjustable.
 

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Bill3491
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Discussion Starter #14
Huh? Explain what you mean. To get the ATI damper off just use a $15 steering wheel puller. No the tensioner is not adjustable.
Well...........mine didn't go on too easily and it's a sore subject. When we put Fasthemiram05's ATI on it went on mostly with an impact. Mine was a combination of oven, impact and 2lb hammer. I wanted to see if it would come off, so I tried the Y type puller that uses the bolts on the front of the pulley and also took the dampener off the hub and used a 3 claw puller. A 1/2 in drive impact feeding off 150psi and it wouldn't budge. I have a hydraulic 12 ton claw puller I will try when the time comes, but I have to pull the radiator to use it. I called ATI and they asked if I measured the crank and the hub. I told them no since it's a stock crank and it's their job to get it right when they make it (especially with what they charge). They said I may have to cut it off.
 

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Inertia ROCKS!!!!
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Well...........mine didn't go on too easily and it's a sore subject. When we put Fasthemiram05's ATI on it went on mostly with an impact. Mine was a combination of oven, impact and 2lb hammer. I wanted to see if it would come off, so I tried the Y type puller that uses the bolts on the front of the pulley and also took the dampener off the hub and used a 3 claw puller. A 1/2 in drive impact feeding off 150psi and it wouldn't budge. I have a hydraulic 12 ton claw puller I will try when the time comes, but I have to pull the radiator to use it. I called ATI and they asked if I measured the crank and the hub. I told them no since it's a stock crank and it's their job to get it right when they make it (especially with what they charge). They said I may have to cut it off.
There are supposedly 3 different crank snout sizes and ATI recommends measuring and boring the damper to the correct size for your application. I've had difficulties removing them and I got it off with a steering wheel puller like this....
 

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Toothy Critters Rock!
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Maybe not so easy but
I think you could degree it with crank on.
Seems like Stu has a custom setup that could do that.
I'm thinking he welded a treaded shaft on a crank bolt then welding some nuts on and such to be able to run the motor over.
You locate TDC. lock in the degree wheel on the shaft, align a pointer, then for just looking for as much error as a tooth off you could probably just put a dial indicator on the valve stem or rocker arm. Of course you''d also need the cam card or know what he ICL should be for you cam
 

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Bill3491
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Discussion Starter #17
There are supposedly 3 different crank snout sizes and ATI recommends measuring and boring the damper to the correct size for your application. I've had difficulties removing them and I got it off with a steering wheel puller like this....
The funny part was I called ATI TWICE to verify the parts I had were correct and that was never mentioned either time. I have one of those, didn't work. This is what I will try next.
 

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LPG Hemi
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Toothy Critters Rock!
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Seems like on the typical cam install it would be difficult to guess what the vac should be with the new cam..
What sort of vac results would you see one tooth off.. advanced vs retarded vs straight up?
Would you be trying to measure it at idle or say cruising down the road?
 
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