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AirFuelEddie
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Discussion Starter #1
I am thinking my next project will be whats readily available as far as a vehicle and I decided to use the size of the engine bay and what was used at the factory, I am still in debt pretty much from the Dodge Challenger R/T project but am slowly digging my way out of debt. Heres the "deal" I have a pretty cool Dodge 4x4 and most of my Mopar experience is with small blocks but I love turbo setups! Face it folks if NHRA allowed turbos almost every class would be running one! Dont believe me just ask The engine developers at Caldwell where I think Jerry Mallicoat works as project engineer. He built the Vipers world Championship engines, Him and his brother where outlawed back in the sixties in nhra for their turbo Hemi cuda, it was plain too fast! So lets get started and since I am in the planning stages any advice is welcome and encouraged: The engine will be a stroker 360 Magnum,(its whats powering the beast currently), the most cubes I can get with the stock block is 426,( I LOVE that #), with a Dave Hughes engine kit. Think a stock block will hold 800 H.P. 700 LB. FT.? I am also thinking about STS Turbos cause you dont need an intercooler! The under chassis "piping" serves as the intercooler! I am also thinking Dual turbos sized smaller than usual as this will spool up quicker allowing more bottom end torque. Like I said ANY input appreciated and tell me what to do, Thanks Eddie.
 

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Private Assasin
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I doubt that any stock LA block will hold 800 hp. 550-600 is about a realistic limit.

4 bolt caps would pretty much be required if you are going to run turbos. Problem is, as I've heard, there isn't really enough metal in the bottom end to bother putting in 4 bolt caps. You'd honestly be better off getting an R3 block as they address the short comings of the stock blocks.

426 is stretching it for a stock block, isn't it? I have a rule to never go more than .030 over bore.

An alternative to twin turbos is building a LARGE stroker...why stop at 426 when you can go to 476!?!? :rck:


I highly recommend this book to anyone who is thinking of building an LA stroker...very informative and there are some very impressive motors with real world compression ratios.

Also, it wouldn't seem that a single pipe would not sufficently cool the air as well as an intercooler.
 

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it's a nice looking truck, but i wouldn't build a 500+ hp motor for that truck because of the added expense of building up the t-case. maybe a 2wd could be had for the project?

I would bore it, stroke it (will require clearancing), cam it, and toss on those turbos. you're gonna want a new top end as well.
 

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AirFuelEddie
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5,443 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replys, Like I said, I am still in the planning stages. So ditch the stock block even with a girdle? Can you run a siamesed bore block on the street? I think the resto block has four bolt capable mains, and I would be willing to go that route. I was interested in the magnum due to the hyd.roller camshaft. Also is the resto block a four bolt head and if you wanted to run a five bolt head on the r-3 would you have to use w-2 stuff? Hughes Engines sells K-Tech engine parts and sells a 4.185 stroker crank with 1.988 Nascar journals, gives 426 cubes with a 4.030 bore which is the most I would bore a stock block,(.015) in each side, I really want to investigate the turbos with an intercooler as they are under chassis units and the intake piping acts as the intercooler! Keep the feedback coming! Oh and the Transfer case is an NP241. A direct bolt in would be the Jeep Rubicons N.P.271? it is the strongest O.E.M. case on the market and will hold more torque than the Dodge cummins case. It will bolt in where a 241 used to be according to AdvanceAdapters.
 

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Private Assasin
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Is it STS that says an intercooler isn't needed? If so, I'd be skeptical of the claim...

I think the R3s come in both siamese and standard flavors. There are many more heads on the market than just the W2...

Also, a regular block can be made to accept Magnum heads..the blocks are actually the same...you just need magnum heads, intake, water pump and serpentine belt setup.
 

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Pretty much all of the sts stuff comes with an intercooler/aftercooler as an option. Only as an example...the hemi kit can't push alot of boost with out an intercooler, with an intercooler the hemi kit pushes only about 7-9 pounds of boost with proper tuning. The sts kits do offer an advantage of having the turbo rear mounted so it does cool slightly as it travels thru the pipes to the tb, but doesnt cool as much as an cooler.
 

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AirFuelEddie
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5,443 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, STS stated in their article in MoPar Muscle magazine dont remember what issue about a year ago, that the sts turbo system mounts below the frame rail near the fuel tank. Its a self contained unit that uses the exhaust to drive it, and the inlet is simply spliced in and routed back to the engine. As the intake charge is routed back to the engine a cooling effect takes place and serves as the vehicles intercooler. This makes sense to me as an intercooler is simply an air radiator and the dynamics of heat are that heat always travels to cold, so theres your intercooler. Ingenious if it works! Thats why I am here, to try and find out if anyone has any turbo experience. I know that I would have to use an programmable air/fuel ratio and this means Fuel Infection so the Fast MPI systems look good. They are pricey however. The edelbrock would be ok for a stock system or modded with a cam no larger than 240 at .050 on the intake side. The weber/maranelli system is air/mass the chryslers are speed density the Fast is both I believe due to the fact they can be used sequentially or batch fired.
 

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Private Assasin
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Try a company called Electromotive. They have a distributorless ignition/EFI system that works great with turbos, uses a laptop for tuning, and is relatively cheap. A guy in our car club has a twin turbo 440 Belvedere with it, and it works great. He is running it off his old distributor pickup, until he gets an MSD crank trigger for it. Just use an old 4 barrel intake, put on a TB, install the injectors in the nitrous bosses.

My concern with the STS claim is that the air will be moving so fast that it won't have time to cool sufficiently for maximum power, since there is limited surface area of the pipe. Surface area is the name of the game in cooling.
 

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AirFuelEddie
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5,443 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Yes, SuperDart I have heard of that company a few years ago and forgot about it. Electromotive seems to cater to the high performance injection scene. I need to call those dudes up and explain to them what I want to do. I have a friend who is an mechanical engineer and is into all mopar muscle especially FWD turbo performance he said the same thing you did about surface area. The t-ram or delta ram effect missing from the front end,( when the vehicle is moving forward), would be lost on the sts system as well. The primary reason STS attracted me in the first place was with their system you would not need a fabricated exhaust manifold as would be needed with a conventional manifold hung turbo, this was really intriguing as the manifold would seal best if made from ductile/cast iron. Do you know if turbos would seal well against headers? I have seen some turbo setups using tubular headers but they were for competition use only. Also is the guy with the turbo belvedere named "feets". I read his article in moPar magazine very impressive!
 

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AirFuelEddie
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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks RamMan, you bet! I love this place and it is getting addictive! I need to get out in the shop more!! I think I am gonna take you guys advice and go with the R-3 360 block or the 340 Resto. However I have spoke with both Dave Hughes and Shady Dell and both were out of those blocks, unfortunately MoPar is still having foundry problems I think. Yeah the stock block will "split at 550-600 H.P. and the 432 stroker makes 540+ with premium pump fuel! It does however use the Hughes Engines girdle and two bolt arp studs. I guess I could sell my 360 magnum to a good home after the project is done. It makes,(est),330 H.P. 380 Torque its a 380 Magnum crate with a special comp roller,(hyd.) eddies rpm airgap, 670 TruckAvenger,1 5/8 Hookers Part#5811 with 3 inch coll. into 2 1/2 inch flowmasters. Oh and like I said I NEED ANOTHER MONEY PIT!! :rck: :help:
 

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AirFuelEddie
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5,443 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yeah I thought about it. But with the available stroker kits out now and the fact thats its set up for the 360, transmission bell, motor mounts brackets, pulleys, driveshaft ectt. would all have to be changed. And being a Dodge man I wanted to try and do something different. I know it would make perfect sense to use a 496/542 stroker and have ample torque but those small block strokers are pretty torquey as well. Did you see truckin magazine/show with stacey david he is building a 1940s WWII PowerWagon with a INDY aluminum 622 Wedge! Using 600-13 Heads, Fuel injected and makes over 800lb.ft. but its a large port engine 380cc intake ports! throttle response below 2500rpm? But yes you are right the BigBlock crate is awesome for sure! By the way Ram Man I recieved a call from the shop about the Challenger R/T its done! I should have the dyno results before the days over!
 

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AirFuelEddie
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Discussion Starter #16
Yep sure is, Fred said it was gonna be hot! And the whole shop was impressed with the pro-max sixpack parts. I cant wait toget it and post it!
 

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Private Assasin
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1,198 Posts
Yes addict, Feets is his screen name. Not sure when that article was published. He was running an 850 Holley and alcohol in jection for cooling effect, with a 4spd manual behind it all. It had so much torque he broke it loose @ 80 and nearly drilled the retaining wall on the highway. After that little near miss he decided an A-518 OD automatic would be better suited.

For his injection system he took a dual 4 tunnel ram, and had the 4 barrel bases lopped off. They were replaced with a plenum intake and a Ford (gasp) front facing TB. I believe he is running 10lbs out of each turbo right now. with stock heads he was running almost 700rwhp and slightly more torque. As we speak he is installing aftermarket aluminum heads.

Article
Another article
 

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Private Assasin
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1,198 Posts

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AirFuelEddie
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5,443 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Wow, Thanks a lot SuperDart, Yes I have that article in my hands as we speak, he mentions a book by c. markwart about turbos and S/C apps, I think over the winter Ill get that book and study it! Man his Bel sure is wicked!
 

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AirFuelEddie
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5,443 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
BTW my challenger made 409 H.P. and 411 Ft. Lbs. RWHP on the mustang 1750 dyno-jet. Man that sounds pathetic compared to that dudes turbo Bel!
 
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