DodgeTalk Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen people who have 180 degree Tstats in their Durango 4.7s, and heard that both Stant and Robert Shaw make one, but they seem to be impossible to find. I even called Stant directly, they only have the 195 deg. Tstat, and Robert Shaw is impossible to contact. Even the stock 195 is hard to find in stock at local part shops and even then they are $22-27(!). Is there some sort of shortage? Where the heck do I get a 180, or do they not exist?
 

·
Patriot....
Joined
·
3,375 Posts
Can you get a Robert Shaw and just cut in the notch?
 

·
BigSLIMM
Joined
·
209 Posts
Yeah, had a hard time finding mine. RobertShaw is not in the business anymore, so I hear. Stant makes it, but the trick is that it is cross-referenced to another model (I forget which one...). The parts guy has to be savvy enough to find the cross-ref.

(I did not cut a notch... Not that significant is it?)
 

·
WORLD'S GREATEST TRUCK
Joined
·
4,435 Posts
Joe, I've done that with transistors, if my part didn't show a x-ref, I'd look for another part that showed mine to be a match, then order that one. It wasn't indexed, but there wasn't that many to choose from.
 

·
BigSLIMM
Joined
·
209 Posts
Right, Bleu.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,722 Posts
I have seen cross referances to other temp stats in stoor books but you can also easly match up your's to 180 thermostats on the shelf. The sizes are usually right on the package, and just make sure the rest of the configuration is the same.
 

·
BigSLIMM
Joined
·
209 Posts
I will post the Stant part# when I get back in town.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
damn i just bought a 160% tstat at napa for $7.99 they had 180s also same price dont seem any reason to spend all that money to by such a simple part for my D
 

·
BigSLIMM
Joined
·
209 Posts
The Stant 4.7 180 is SUPERSTAT 45358.

Bada - BTW, I do not think you want a 160. Way too cool. I have not seen any reports where anyone was satisfied with that temp. The 4.7 computer just does not jive well that low temp. Usually starts throwing codes and such; or maybe just does not produce adequate interior heat in cold weather. :tdwn:

(Oh, I now see you have a 5.9. But I think it is still too cool for the 5.9 also. Is it working alright for you?)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
does the 180 degree t-stat really make a difference in the 4.7L? what type of improvements do you get? And also, will it still work good if half the year you are driving in cold freezing temps? I am thinking about getting once but not sure yet. I've also heard that it cause sludge issues, is that true.
 

·
BigSLIMM
Joined
·
209 Posts
Well, theoretically lowering the temp on any motor within its operating range induces better performance because thermodynamic efficiency increases inversely to temperature; ie. a motor produces more power in its cooler operating range.
Realistically, will you feel this theoretical power inducement - probably not, based on my opinion. But some folks here may indicate otherwise.

My rational - besides being something interesting to do - is that abnormally high temp will surely kill an engine, whereas engine failure is not associated with low temp. So I like the idea of operating at a lower temperature if nothing more than maybe being able to diagnose an overheating situation quicker.

I too was concerned about winter weather. But it works just fine; the engine and heater work perfectly in the cold. Other folks will say the same.
The 160 is another story - folks report inadequate heat with that.

In regards to 4.7 sludge, 50/50. Some say cool temp causes it due to increased condensation; some say high temp causes it due to residual burn off and subsequent particulate buildup; some say its due to mixing different oil brands/weights; who knows?
Some say there is no sludge problem - just user error; as in inadequate oil change maintenance. (Yeah, tell that to the poor souls who bought new/late model, did proper maintenance, wind up with a sludged motor, and Heilsler screwing them by refusing to honor the warrantly due to 'user neglect'.)
Just change your oil every 50 miles and you are good to go! :crazy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
joe washington said:
Well, theoretically lowering the temp on any motor within its operating range induces better performance because thermodynamic efficiency increases inversely to temperature; ie. a motor produces more power in its cooler operating range.
Realistically, will you feel this theoretical power inducement - probably not, based on my opinion. But some folks here may indicate otherwise.

My rational - besides being something interesting to do - is that abnormally high temp will surely kill an engine, whereas engine failure is not associated with low temp. So I like the idea of operating at a lower temperature if nothing more than maybe being able to diagnose an overheating situation quicker.

I too was concerned about winter weather. But it works just fine; the engine and heater work perfectly in the cold. Other folks will say the same.
The 160 is another story - folks report inadequate heat with that.

In regards to 4.7 sludge, 50/50. Some say cool temp causes it due to increased condensation; some say high temp causes it due to residual burn off and subsequent particulate buildup; some say its due to mixing different oil brands/weights; who knows?
Some say there is no sludge problem - just user error; as in inadequate oil change maintenance. (Yeah, tell that to the poor souls who bought new/late model, did proper maintenance, wind up with a sludged motor, and Heilsler screwing them by refusing to honor the warrantly due to 'user neglect'.)
Just change your oil every 50 miles and you are good to go! :crazy:

Haha thanks man you were a big help, I'll probably go for it now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,055 Posts
joe washington said:
Well, theoretically lowering the temp on any motor within its operating range induces better performance because thermodynamic efficiency increases inversely to temperature; ie. a motor produces more power in its cooler operating range.
Realistically, will you feel this theoretical power inducement - probably not, based on my opinion. But some folks here may indicate otherwise.

My rational - besides being something interesting to do - is that abnormally high temp will surely kill an engine, whereas engine failure is not associated with low temp. So I like the idea of operating at a lower temperature if nothing more than maybe being able to diagnose an overheating situation quicker.

I too was concerned about winter weather. But it works just fine; the engine and heater work perfectly in the cold. Other folks will say the same.
The 160 is another story - folks report inadequate heat with that.

In regards to 4.7 sludge, 50/50. Some say cool temp causes it due to increased condensation; some say high temp causes it due to residual burn off and subsequent particulate buildup; some say its due to mixing different oil brands/weights; who knows?
Some say there is no sludge problem - just user error; as in inadequate oil change maintenance. (Yeah, tell that to the poor souls who bought new/late model, did proper maintenance, wind up with a sludged motor, and Heilsler screwing them by refusing to honor the warrantly due to 'user neglect'.)
Just change your oil every 50 miles and you are good to go! :crazy:
I don't think you have this right. Any power increase from putting in a 180 stat is from the fact that the ecu will add more fuel because it sees the engine below operating temp. Relocating the IAT does the same thing...it fools the ecu in to thinking the air is cooler than it is, thus the ecu adds fuel to adjust the fuel/air ratio. The 160 temp stat with an efi engine will usually cause it to add too much fuel and you'll have driveability problems. I don't see any problem with going to the 180 stat on a 4.7L. I installed a 180 in my brother's 5.2L without any ill effects.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,733 Posts
The Robertshaw thermostat division based in Knoxville TN was bought by Siebe Automotive about 5 years ago.

If you use the engine data of a 1999 4.7V8 and plug it into PerformanceTrends Engine Analyser 3.0 it will give you a graph that matches the factory graph within 2 ft lbs of torque at every rpm.

If you then change the coolant temperature from 195 down to 180 degrees there is about a 2 ft-lb LOSS of torque up to about 2700 rpm, then a GAIN of 2 ft-lbs at 3500 rpm. Peak HP goes up by 1 at 4800 rpm

If you plug 4.7V8 engine specs into the gear ratios, weight and aerodynamics of the 2003 Ram pickup, Performance Trends other program called Fuel Economy Calculator predicts that at a steady 70 mph on a level asphalt road with no wind, going from a coolant temperature of 195 down to 175 will drop the MPG from 15.45 to 15.37
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
HankL said:
The Robertshaw thermostat division based in Knoxville TN was bought by Siebe Automotive about 5 years ago.

If you use the engine data of a 1999 4.7V8 and plug it into PerformanceTrends Engine Analyser 3.0 it will give you a graph that matches the factory graph within 2 ft lbs of torque at every rpm.

If you then change the coolant temperature from 195 down to 180 degrees there is about a 2 ft-lb LOSS of torque up to about 2700 rpm, then a GAIN of 2 ft-lbs at 3500 rpm. Peak HP goes up by 1 at 4800 rpm

If you plug 4.7V8 engine specs into the gear ratios, weight and aerodynamics of the 2003 Ram pickup, Performance Trends other program called Fuel Economy Calculator predicts that at a steady 70 mph on a level asphalt road with no wind, going from a coolant temperature of 195 down to 175 will drop the MPG from 15.45 to 15.37
Thanks Hank, It looks like I won't be changing it!
 

·
Loanshark
Joined
·
93 Posts
Hercules said:
I don't think you have this right. Any power increase from putting in a 180 stat is from the fact that the ecu will add more fuel because it sees the engine below operating temp. Relocating the IAT does the same thing...it fools the ecu in to thinking the air is cooler than it is, thus the ecu adds fuel to adjust the fuel/air ratio. The 160 temp stat with an efi engine will usually cause it to add too much fuel and you'll have driveability problems. I don't see any problem with going to the 180 stat on a 4.7L. I installed a 180 in my brother's 5.2L without any ill effects.
Not to offend you but I think your language could be misleading here. Relocating the IAT doesn't "fool the ecu" it allows it to correctly read the air temp.

This is why Dodge moved them on the 2003 and later vehicles.

As far as the 180 stat goes, I've heard good and bad. either way I think the 4.7 needs synthetic. At least I sleep better knowing there's synthetic in mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Be Cool makes a 180 degree t-stat for the Durango. I bought it online at: http://www.jegs.com/

Hope this helps!
 

·
BigSLIMM
Joined
·
209 Posts
Hey DODGER... You are in the neighborhood! Me in Herndon, and JoMc67 in Sterling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
joe washington said:
Hey DODGER... You are in the neighborhood! Me in Herndon, and JoMc67 in Sterling.
Cool. I am going back to school down in Blacksburg in a week though.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top