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post #1 of 71 Old 03-31-2012, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
SilverWagon05
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Leaf springs.

Curious to see if anyone has swapped out their factory leafs for something aftermarket. I'm currently running a 3" block in the rear and looking to swap in new leaf packs, to eliminate the blocks, increase performance, and try to keep close to factory payload capacity. I've been talking with Atlas about custom built packs, which they seem to be able to do for a reasonable amount of $, compared to what I've found currently available. Please chime in about what you have, and/or your thoughts.

1) What do you have?
2) Why did you swap them out?
3) How do you like them?

05 Silver 4dr Power Wagon / Auto
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post #2 of 71 Old 03-31-2012, 11:32 PM
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1.) Carli Deaver progressive leaf pack. 1.5" lift from pack alone + Thuren's shackles that give you either 0, .75, or 1.5" of lift. Eliminated the lift block and took away a good amount of axle hop.
2.) Wanted to upgrade to a full leaf pack to compliment the rest of my suspension, eliminate some axle hop, and give better street manners.
3.) Very satisfied with the purchase. They make the ride in the back less choppy over chatter in the roads and they are smooth and plush off-road. Highly recommend Carli. Close to same load capacity (if not more) than stock. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you go this route. Carli's leaf pack is tried and true and with Thuren's shackles you can choose from .75 or 1.5" of lift. I'm running mine on the middle hole (.75)" and with the springs this gives the rear of the truck a slightly higher rake than the front 4" lift.

06 Black QC G56, 76K miles and counting...
Thuren coils, tracbar, control arms, shackles, draglink, limit straps, towers, Stage 3 front King 2.5's, DBL Bypass rear King 2.5's, Carli leaf springs, Carli upper & lower BJ's and diff cover, PSC notched steering brace, 08.5 "T" linkage, PSC Extreme Duty Steering Box, Borgeson Lower Steering Shaft, Magnaflow muffler, Airaid Intake, American Racing ATX Thug 17x8.5, Yokohama Geolander AT/S 37x12.50x17, Rockcrusher rear diff cover, Airflow snorkel (fitted to Airaid full intake), Magnaflow y-pipe & Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, Go Recon Super White cab lights, EBC slotted rotors/Yellowstuff pads, winch thermal bypass & locker bypass, Pit Slave-modded SmartBar, greasable front u-joints, tint, JL Audio 12" subwoofer & JL Audio 500W amp with adjustable bass knob

Upcoming Mods:
Flowtech Headers, Line-X rocker panels/fender flares, eBay black mesh grill, DIY blacked-out headlights, Diablosport programmer, chopped rocker panels, tube bumpers F/R, Rigid Industries LED lightbar, axle truss, stiffer shock valving, VH tire carrier, Mastercraft Baja RS seats, Filtermag, Go Pro HERO 2
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post #3 of 71 Old 03-31-2012, 11:48 PM
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I got the carli leafs and also love them. Got them from 8lug truck gear.

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post #4 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 06:28 AM
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I have the Thuren long travel and love them. They are as soft as OEM PW but are way more flexy than the PW OEM pack. With the Thuren shackles I have a level ride on while running on Carli progressive coils up front. I am very happy with my performance and like the .75 lift over a 1.25 lift. I get about 13.5" of rear wheel travel over the OEM 9.5" on a stock PW. It is possible with creative shock systems to get 17" on Thuren LT springs.

Thuren uses Atlas leafs and they seem to be a good quality spring pack. Carli/Deaver is the cream of the crop though when it comes to load capacity and sport ride and are made by the best in the business. Can't go wrong either way in my book. Thuren is more travel and Carli is more load capacity (in the simplest of terms).

PS: I get zero wheel hop on Thuren LT leaf springs with King 2.5" shocks.

Yes I did some mods to my PW... what about it?
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post #5 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 10:37 AM
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I'm still getting some wheel hop even with my Carli's and King 2.5's. Do you think it could be because I don't have a torque convertor to help absorb some of the throttle? That's all I can think right now. Because mine gas pedal is essentially connected to the rear wheels when I give it some throttle in deep sand she hops. Gotta be gentle on the throttle and put it in 4-hi.

06 Black QC G56, 76K miles and counting...
Thuren coils, tracbar, control arms, shackles, draglink, limit straps, towers, Stage 3 front King 2.5's, DBL Bypass rear King 2.5's, Carli leaf springs, Carli upper & lower BJ's and diff cover, PSC notched steering brace, 08.5 "T" linkage, PSC Extreme Duty Steering Box, Borgeson Lower Steering Shaft, Magnaflow muffler, Airaid Intake, American Racing ATX Thug 17x8.5, Yokohama Geolander AT/S 37x12.50x17, Rockcrusher rear diff cover, Airflow snorkel (fitted to Airaid full intake), Magnaflow y-pipe & Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, Go Recon Super White cab lights, EBC slotted rotors/Yellowstuff pads, winch thermal bypass & locker bypass, Pit Slave-modded SmartBar, greasable front u-joints, tint, JL Audio 12" subwoofer & JL Audio 500W amp with adjustable bass knob

Upcoming Mods:
Flowtech Headers, Line-X rocker panels/fender flares, eBay black mesh grill, DIY blacked-out headlights, Diablosport programmer, chopped rocker panels, tube bumpers F/R, Rigid Industries LED lightbar, axle truss, stiffer shock valving, VH tire carrier, Mastercraft Baja RS seats, Filtermag, Go Pro HERO 2
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post #6 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 12:59 PM
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carli flex


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post #7 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 01:47 PM
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alcan makes a hell of a spring as well

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post #8 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MSparks909 View Post
I'm still getting some wheel hop even with my Carli's and King 2.5's. Do you think it could be because I don't have a torque convertor to help absorb some of the throttle? That's all I can think right now. Because mine gas pedal is essentially connected to the rear wheels when I give it some throttle in deep sand she hops. Gotta be gentle on the throttle and put it in 4-hi.
If I recall correctly the spring from Carli has the little rubbing pads at the end of the leaves and these pads create a little air space all the way back to the axle U-bolts (just like OEM PW). This design makes the spring smoother and quieter. But it also allows chatter (not full on wheel hop). So this is the trade off for using those pads.

My Thuren springs are metal to metal the full length and creak when they get wet or when the molly grease between them dries out. But I get zero chatter or wheel hop out of them. This design can also increase the spring rate through friction caused by a lack of lubrication and rust formation due to limited use in wet climates or high salt areas. As with anything there are trade offs for everything done differently.

Since I know you have bypass shocks, let me say what I found to work best for me is 2.5 on rebound and 4 on compression. Any more open than those settings can enhance the tendency for chatter. A standard 2.5" King will not get the same chatter as a bypass can when opened up too much. In theory 4&6 on the bypass valves is too much IMHO.

Yes I did some mods to my PW... what about it?
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post #9 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azracer View Post
If I recall correctly the spring from Carli has the little rubbing pads at the end of the leaves and these pads create a little air space all the way back to the axle U-bolts (just like OEM PW). This design makes the spring smoother and quieter. But it also allows chatter (not full on wheel hop). So this is the trade off for using those pads.

My Thuren springs are metal to metal the full length and creak when they get wet or when the molly grease between them dries out. But I get zero chatter or wheel hop out of them. This design can also increase the spring rate through friction caused by a lack of lubrication and rust formation due to limited use in wet climates or high salt areas. As with anything there are trade offs for everything done differently.

Since I know you have bypass shocks, let me say what I found to work best for me is 2.5 on rebound and 4 on compression. Any more open than those settings can enhance the tendency for chatter. A standard 2.5" King will not get the same chatter as a bypass can when opened up too much. In theory 4&6 on the bypass valves is too much IMHO.
You are correct on the Carli's having those rubber pads in between the leaves. I would have gone Thuren but didn't want to have to add/remove the Timbrens every time I towed or loaded the bed down. I'll still probably get Timbren's for the heavy stuff but that's for another thread. But yeah these Carli's still get some pretty serious hop. It's not chatter I promise. I'll try adjusting the bypasses some more. I currently have them on 2.5 rebound 5 compression and gives me a ride similar to the OE PW springs/bypasses. I can try 4 on compression though and see what difference it makes.

06 Black QC G56, 76K miles and counting...
Thuren coils, tracbar, control arms, shackles, draglink, limit straps, towers, Stage 3 front King 2.5's, DBL Bypass rear King 2.5's, Carli leaf springs, Carli upper & lower BJ's and diff cover, PSC notched steering brace, 08.5 "T" linkage, PSC Extreme Duty Steering Box, Borgeson Lower Steering Shaft, Magnaflow muffler, Airaid Intake, American Racing ATX Thug 17x8.5, Yokohama Geolander AT/S 37x12.50x17, Rockcrusher rear diff cover, Airflow snorkel (fitted to Airaid full intake), Magnaflow y-pipe & Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, Go Recon Super White cab lights, EBC slotted rotors/Yellowstuff pads, winch thermal bypass & locker bypass, Pit Slave-modded SmartBar, greasable front u-joints, tint, JL Audio 12" subwoofer & JL Audio 500W amp with adjustable bass knob

Upcoming Mods:
Flowtech Headers, Line-X rocker panels/fender flares, eBay black mesh grill, DIY blacked-out headlights, Diablosport programmer, chopped rocker panels, tube bumpers F/R, Rigid Industries LED lightbar, axle truss, stiffer shock valving, VH tire carrier, Mastercraft Baja RS seats, Filtermag, Go Pro HERO 2
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post #10 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 07:11 PM
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does anyone have the 4" ones
http://www.8lugtruckgear.com/Dodge-S...Pack-p754.html

if so,do you get a full 4" out of them?


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post #11 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 08:04 PM
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Some guys over on DTX are running those and IIRC they are getting 4" out of them to match the 6" lift in the front end.

06 Black QC G56, 76K miles and counting...
Thuren coils, tracbar, control arms, shackles, draglink, limit straps, towers, Stage 3 front King 2.5's, DBL Bypass rear King 2.5's, Carli leaf springs, Carli upper & lower BJ's and diff cover, PSC notched steering brace, 08.5 "T" linkage, PSC Extreme Duty Steering Box, Borgeson Lower Steering Shaft, Magnaflow muffler, Airaid Intake, American Racing ATX Thug 17x8.5, Yokohama Geolander AT/S 37x12.50x17, Rockcrusher rear diff cover, Airflow snorkel (fitted to Airaid full intake), Magnaflow y-pipe & Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, Go Recon Super White cab lights, EBC slotted rotors/Yellowstuff pads, winch thermal bypass & locker bypass, Pit Slave-modded SmartBar, greasable front u-joints, tint, JL Audio 12" subwoofer & JL Audio 500W amp with adjustable bass knob

Upcoming Mods:
Flowtech Headers, Line-X rocker panels/fender flares, eBay black mesh grill, DIY blacked-out headlights, Diablosport programmer, chopped rocker panels, tube bumpers F/R, Rigid Industries LED lightbar, axle truss, stiffer shock valving, VH tire carrier, Mastercraft Baja RS seats, Filtermag, Go Pro HERO 2
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post #12 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 09:30 PM
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are those new? id dident think they made a full 4in spring for the 6in lifts... cool

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post #13 of 71 Old 04-01-2012, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by reddot View Post
are those new? id dident think they made a full 4in spring for the 6in lifts... cool
They've been available for about 6 months:
http://www.8lugtruckgear.com/Dodge-S...Pack-p754.html

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post #14 of 71 Old 04-02-2012, 12:54 AM
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I have deaver 6" springs that are a 10 pack progressive that i physically went to deavers shop, they helped me put together a package that gives me the tongue carrying capacity of a one ton, but gives a ride almost like stock, but i like a firmer rideing truck especially when towing. I have zero wheel hop even with the manuel trans, i hooked to my neighbors 11,000# bumper pull toy hauler that has about a 1,500# tongue wt and it squatted about 3".(I plan on getting a bumper pull rv trlr) Wanted away from lift blocks and have known the people at deaver over thirty years. They have also made other custom parts for my semi. No brainer whos springs for me. Quality has never changed imo.


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post #15 of 71 Old 04-02-2012, 08:44 PM
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Just thought I would add this...
I have had the BDS springs in back for a few years. They have always been stiff like a set of 1 ton springs. No axle hop, great for heavy loads and towing.
Anyhow I was just on the trails after putting the thuren shackles on. It flexes alot better. I have yet to put in a heavy load or tow.
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post #16 of 71 Old 04-03-2012, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input. I recently spoke with Atlas' offroad spring designer (who by the way was awesome, and really took the time to discuss exactly what I am looking for). He explained to me (this is to the best of my memory, as I did not have anything to write with at the time), that our factory PW leaf packs are rated at 2100 lbs each, vs 2500/3500 HD leaf packs being rated from 2400-2800 lbs each. Full on race packs (which Carli and Thuren sell), typically range from about 1400-1800 lbs each. Carli's packs are around the 1800 lb mark and Thuren's are around the 1400 lb mark. According to Atlas , they make leaf packs for Carli and Thuren both. He also went on to say that, the PW leaf packs are longer than the 2500/3500 packs and that what most people have on the shelf, including Carli and Thuren are the shorter HD packs, which would impact performance on a PW.

For those that have the Carli or Thuren packs;

1) Did you have to special order your packs through them, or did you get the packs that they normally stock?
2) Was this difference in length discussed with you when you made your purchase?
3) Any other comments or info about this?

Again, thanks for the input.

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___________________________________
Soon to be installed...
Pure Performance long arm kit and Thuren 6" coils
___________________________________
Up next...
Thuren, Carli or custom leafs, Thuren shackles, Thuren massaged Kings, headers, Carli or Dynatrac upper & lower ball joints, pocket flares?, snorkel, synthetic winch line, Thuren Extreme Steering, PSC Hydro assist.
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post #17 of 71 Old 04-03-2012, 04:36 PM
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As for mine they are Thurens but came off a truck being returned to stock. They are what is called the "long Travel (LT)". I was in the process of working with Don and he became aware of a set used (3 months old) that were exactly what I was looking for so I bought them.

Because they are the LT ones they require the use of Thurens special longer length shackles. I think the leaves were either 4" or 6" longer than the PW OEM leaves. The PW had 6 or 7 leaves and the LT from Thuren were 9 leaves but the LT stack was shorter in height than the PW leaves were with the OEM block spacer so it was close on the u bolt threads being threaded down far enough to secure the stack to the axle. They also moved the axle back about .5" to allow for 37" tire to clear.

I don't know what rate my springs are but they are slightly softer than the OEM PW springs. They ride nice and I got Timbrins for the load capacity when needed. To be honest I do heavy loads often but not for long distances so I have yet to use the Timbrins as the Thuren spring pack does fine so far. Yes it sags in the back with heavy loads but I go slow and less than 30 miles so it does me fine as is.

Truck sits level with the Carli Hemi coils, full load of fuel and about 100>150# of gear including the Diamondback aluminum a tonneau cover.


Yes I did some mods to my PW... what about it?
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post #18 of 71 Old 04-03-2012, 07:41 PM
MSparks909
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Originally Posted by SilverWagon05 View Post
Thanks for all the input. I recently spoke with Atlas' offroad spring designer (who by the way was awesome, and really took the time to discuss exactly what I am looking for). He explained to me (this is to the best of my memory, as I did not have anything to write with at the time), that our factory PW leaf packs are rated at 2100 lbs each, vs 2500/3500 HD leaf packs being rated from 2400-2800 lbs each. Full on race packs (which Carli and Thuren sell), typically range from about 1400-1800 lbs each. Carli's packs are around the 1800 lb mark and Thuren's are around the 1400 lb mark. According to Atlas , they make leaf packs for Carli and Thuren both. He also went on to say that, the PW leaf packs are longer than the 2500/3500 packs and that what most people have on the shelf, including Carli and Thuren are the shorter HD packs, which would impact performance on a PW.

For those that have the Carli or Thuren packs;

1) Did you have to special order your packs through them, or did you get the packs that they normally stock?
2) Was this difference in length discussed with you when you made your purchase?
3) Any other comments or info about this?

Again, thanks for the input.
The Carli springs I have are Deavers...not Atlas.
1.) I ordered regular Carli progressive leaf springs from George @ 8lug.
2.) No difference in length was discussed with me, nor has it been an issue.
3.) I've been extremely pleased with the Carli leaf springs as a replacement. When you say "longer" what do you mean? Travel length or eye-to-eye length on the springs themselves? If you're talking about travel length, then the Carli's I have flex better (for me) than the OEM PW springs because they moved my axle 1/2" rearward so I can fully stuff the 37's. The Carli springs are also capable of 15" of suspension travel. If you're talking about eye-to-eye length then I'm not sure, but it hasn't been a problem. They also have 3 overload springs to boost hauling capacity once you dip that low into the spring pack.

06 Black QC G56, 76K miles and counting...
Thuren coils, tracbar, control arms, shackles, draglink, limit straps, towers, Stage 3 front King 2.5's, DBL Bypass rear King 2.5's, Carli leaf springs, Carli upper & lower BJ's and diff cover, PSC notched steering brace, 08.5 "T" linkage, PSC Extreme Duty Steering Box, Borgeson Lower Steering Shaft, Magnaflow muffler, Airaid Intake, American Racing ATX Thug 17x8.5, Yokohama Geolander AT/S 37x12.50x17, Rockcrusher rear diff cover, Airflow snorkel (fitted to Airaid full intake), Magnaflow y-pipe & Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, Go Recon Super White cab lights, EBC slotted rotors/Yellowstuff pads, winch thermal bypass & locker bypass, Pit Slave-modded SmartBar, greasable front u-joints, tint, JL Audio 12" subwoofer & JL Audio 500W amp with adjustable bass knob

Upcoming Mods:
Flowtech Headers, Line-X rocker panels/fender flares, eBay black mesh grill, DIY blacked-out headlights, Diablosport programmer, chopped rocker panels, tube bumpers F/R, Rigid Industries LED lightbar, axle truss, stiffer shock valving, VH tire carrier, Mastercraft Baja RS seats, Filtermag, Go Pro HERO 2
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post #19 of 71 Old 04-03-2012, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MSparks909 View Post
The Carli springs I have are Deavers...not Atlas.
1.) I ordered regular Carli progressive leaf springs from George @ 8lug.
2.) No difference in length was discussed with me, nor has it been an issue.
3.) I've been extremely pleased with the Carli leaf springs as a replacement. When you say "longer" what do you mean? Travel length or eye-to-eye length on the springs themselves? If you're talking about travel length, then the Carli's I have flex better (for me) than the OEM PW springs because they moved my axle 1/2" rearward so I can fully stuff the 37's. The Carli springs are also capable of 15" of suspension travel. If you're talking about eye-to-eye length then I'm not sure, but it hasn't been a problem. They also have 3 overload springs to boost hauling capacity once you dip that low into the spring pack.
From what I understand, Carli primarily uses Deaver and Thuren primarily uses Atlas, but they also each make some springs for the others as well.

As far as the length of the springs, it is the eye to eye length. As I would understand it, the difference in this length would alter the "neutral" location of the rear eye, in relation to the shackle. The location of the pin is also going to adjust the axle front to back, most of which are pushing it back .5" or so to be able to stuff 37's properly.

05 Silver 4dr Power Wagon / Auto
Upgrades: 5" Pro Comp lift w/MX-6 shocks, HD Pro Comp adj. track bar, 37/12.5/17 Pro Comp Extreme M/T's, 17x9 Moto Metal 951 - black, modified Amp Power steps, Custom front and rear high clearance tube bumpers - black, rear lower quarter panel delete, Challenger Narrow truck box - black, AEM Brute Force CAI, SuperChips Flashpaq, Gibson Extreme Dual Cat-Back exhaust (shortened), Line-X Bed liner, Locker bypass, Black locking Billet Gas filler door, WeatherTech smoked inchannel vent visors & floor liners, Recon LED smoked Cab lights and 3rd brake light, Viair constant duty onboard air system, DT ProFab Steering Box Brace, PowerStop zinc coated, drilled & slotted rotors w/ ceramic pads, Spicer Life series front axle u-joints, Moog (greasable) tie rod end link, Custom rock sliders, Rock crusher rear diff cover, Carli front diff guard, 2-6" KC 130w Longrange lights behind the grill, 55w floodlights mounted on rear bumper, High/Low/Fog all-on mod, JVC head unit, amplified MTX Thunderform box with 2-10" subs.
___________________________________
Soon to be installed...
Pure Performance long arm kit and Thuren 6" coils
___________________________________
Up next...
Thuren, Carli or custom leafs, Thuren shackles, Thuren massaged Kings, headers, Carli or Dynatrac upper & lower ball joints, pocket flares?, snorkel, synthetic winch line, Thuren Extreme Steering, PSC Hydro assist.
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post #20 of 71 Old 04-03-2012, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WHITEYBLACKPW View Post
Just thought I would add this...
I have had the BDS springs in back for a few years. They have always been stiff like a set of 1 ton springs. No axle hop, great for heavy loads and towing.
Anyhow I was just on the trails after putting the thuren shackles on. It flexes alot better. I have yet to put in a heavy load or tow.
What do you think is the reason why you are getting more flex just by adding the Thuren shackles?

05 Silver 4dr Power Wagon / Auto
Upgrades: 5" Pro Comp lift w/MX-6 shocks, HD Pro Comp adj. track bar, 37/12.5/17 Pro Comp Extreme M/T's, 17x9 Moto Metal 951 - black, modified Amp Power steps, Custom front and rear high clearance tube bumpers - black, rear lower quarter panel delete, Challenger Narrow truck box - black, AEM Brute Force CAI, SuperChips Flashpaq, Gibson Extreme Dual Cat-Back exhaust (shortened), Line-X Bed liner, Locker bypass, Black locking Billet Gas filler door, WeatherTech smoked inchannel vent visors & floor liners, Recon LED smoked Cab lights and 3rd brake light, Viair constant duty onboard air system, DT ProFab Steering Box Brace, PowerStop zinc coated, drilled & slotted rotors w/ ceramic pads, Spicer Life series front axle u-joints, Moog (greasable) tie rod end link, Custom rock sliders, Rock crusher rear diff cover, Carli front diff guard, 2-6" KC 130w Longrange lights behind the grill, 55w floodlights mounted on rear bumper, High/Low/Fog all-on mod, JVC head unit, amplified MTX Thunderform box with 2-10" subs.
___________________________________
Soon to be installed...
Pure Performance long arm kit and Thuren 6" coils
___________________________________
Up next...
Thuren, Carli or custom leafs, Thuren shackles, Thuren massaged Kings, headers, Carli or Dynatrac upper & lower ball joints, pocket flares?, snorkel, synthetic winch line, Thuren Extreme Steering, PSC Hydro assist.
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