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Is this standard performance for an SS/T?

5K views 71 replies 14 participants last post by  dholingw 
#1 ·
Hi all..

First of all, the truck is running great. Replaced all ignition components, then took it into the dealership for a tranny fluid change. They re-flashed the PCM with the newest update as of October 2005. I installed ‘true’ dual exhaust, and also had the fuel injection system cleaned. So.. Now we have a great running truck.

Problem:

I guess it’s actually a question. When you mash it off the line, is it supposed to feel a little sluggish? I can bark the tires a little off very smooth asphalt, but light it up? No way… Today I stopped on a back highway with rougher asphalt. I nailed it, but couldn’t even get a chirp. They are however, 17-inch tires, plus posi. Maybe they don't break loose that easily?

Merging onto the expressway the other day, I started leaning into the throttle, but it’s awfully slow to downshift. I had to let up, then PUNCH it hard to get it to kick down.

It feels like my Pontiac with a 305, but with the timing retarded by 3, to 4-degrees, however that’s not possible with Ram’s, is it? I was thinking the guys that installed the ignition parts mucked something up, but how? You can’t fowl up timing on these, since it’s all managed by the PCM, right?

Something to do with the flash upgrade?

I’ve heard of this flash of death. What are the odds are they updated my PCM with this? I mean… How obvious would it be if they did?

Maybe all stock RAM’s are a little sluggish by default?

I haven’t owned one long enough, so I have no frame of reference to compare. When I stomp it, the power should JUST BE THERE. I dunno… Something doesn’t feel quite right. Light and medium starts are decent, but heavier to WOT seems odd.

Let’s define sluggish

This should not be confused with bog. Bogging is actually audible in that you hear the engine throttling down under heavy acceleration. Sluggish is when you’re WOT, but the vehicle feels as if something’s holding it back –as in you’re not getting full power. In essence, it feels like a 25% to 35% acceleration loss.

Closest thing that still comes to mind is what feels like ignition timing 2 or 3 degrees retarded.

Again… Maybe this is standard performance for a stock SS/T without mods? if so, that's fine.

Any comments are welcome,

D
 
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#53 ·
looks like finding an MPP is going to be tough. So, someone recomended this guy to me: http://www.bgperformancepcm.com/ All custom flashes for Dodge products. I can't find much info on him, but his offerings are certainly interesting. I want the upgrade that is suggested for the M1 manifold, but wondering what happens if I use this flash without the M1 Manifold.

D.
 
#54 ·
dholingw said:
I get stuck with ‘another’ $70.00 bill for just plugging in the DRBIII programmer. He apologized for the dog slow truck, but essentially told me hey… There’s nothing we can do about it. Unbelievable..
That is hard to believe! Did they say exactly why they couldn't reflash it back to the original program? It seems odd to me that they wouldn't be able to do this unless they're just lazy and/or don't feel like it but with being a stealership it doesn't surprise me. That just plain sucks.
 
#55 ·
Yep, the impression I got was “frankly we don’t care… That’s not our problem” The tech called someone higher up, (or so he claims), but returns with “sorry, they said we can’t do that.” Anyone who knows anything about programming knows full well that the source files right back to 1997 are still kicking around somewhere –either on a server or on disk.

Honestly though… The call to corporate was the funniest. Similar to large DSL/ phone companies they use a low-paid flunky as their first line of defense against dissatisfied customers. Flunky reads from a script, while in most cases knowing absolutely nothing about the core product. Imagine telling me she knows nothing about the ‘technical aspects’ of a PCM, yet arguing at the same time that “she’s the one I’m supposed to be talking to.” LOL LOL LOL!!!

Her showstopper argument was that any issues I have with dealer workmanship are between “myself and the dealer” –not head office. Additionally, I was under this distinct impression that because I own a 1997, I’m considered much ‘lower’ on the totem pole, when compared to new Dodge buyers. I haven’t dealt with GM or Ford’s service, but if the attitude is anything like this, NO WONDER they’re loosing their shirts to foreign car manufactures. Then again, this is Chrysler Canada – While this seems to be acceptable behavior here, I somehow doubt this magnitude of arrogance would be tolerated in the U.S. I’m thinking of trying a US dealer the next time I’m in P.A. 2-dealers here have resulted in diaster, so I'm not going for a 3rd strike.

D.

PS Sorry for rambling --just fed up with the shit attitude from large corps
 
#56 ·
Not positive... This is pure speculation. Our Eubank branch store (Napa Auto Parts) has the ability to flash computers. They charger about $100. It's VIN Specific, so provided you give them an SS/T VIN # I don't know why ouy couldn't get your old flash back.

I've run the MP SBEC before on my '93 Dakota, and my '95 Dakota, I loved it to DEATH! Made a night and day difference. I might think about one for my '99 Ram... Who knows....
 
#57 ·
Hey.. We have a Napa auto parts here, so I could try that. The thing is, it I can't tell if they just sell parts, or if they actually have an active auto shop. I'll need to drop by tommorow. It also depends on where the get their flash updates from. If they're updating regularly from Dodge, then they too may carry the flash of death. I'll give them a call.

Thanks man,

D.
 
#58 ·
I've run the MP SBEC before on my '93 Dakota, and my '95 Dakota, I loved it to DEATH!

I don't mean to hi-jack, but can MeanThree18 elaborate on what a 'MP SBEC' is and where I can get information on it.
thanks
 
#59 ·
You're not hi-jacking the thread. If you can find the info you're looking for, then feel free.

D.
 
#60 ·
I got ahold of B&G Mopar performance and they said they could optimize timing & fuel, remove torque management, reset shift points to 5000, and reset rev limiter to 5400 for $350 shipped. Should be a 3 day turn around.
I think I am going to wait on that until I get the stroker kit installed though, otherwise it would cost an additional $230 to have it reflashed again.
 
#61 ·
Ok… Think I have a plan. I’m going to grab another PCM from the wreckers for $75, to $100. I’m going to send my current one out to B&G for a flash. I’ll keep the spare one in case of any problems with emissions testing, and besides… if you’re going to mess around with custom flashes, you always want backup with the default config.

Just wondering… Are there any foreseeable problems with a PCM from the wreckers? As long as it’s a out of a 97 1500 with 2-wheel driver, I should be ok, correct? Is there anything I should be aware of when swapping PCM’s, other than disconnecting the battery first? You can’t damage anything by swapping a PCM, correct? If all is well, the truck should fire right up?

Thanks,

D.
 
#63 ·
Thanks Big Joe…

Just wanted to make sure before swapping PCM stuff out. I didn’t know if you could mess anything up by replacing it, but I guess as long as it’s from a 97 with the same drive train, it should fire back up no problem.

On another note, the only problems I’ve seen with the B&G flashes are some issues with the 03’s through 06’s, so hopefully no complications should arise with my 97.

D.
 
#65 ·
I didn’t know if you could mess anything up by replacing it, but I guess as long as it’s from a 97 with the same drive train, it should fire back up no problem.
may run a little ruff and idle a little higher until the new PCM 'learns', usually takes about 50-100 miles.

edit: when you get the other PCM swapped in, take it to autozone (or any parts store with a scanner tool) and erase any stored codes that were in the PCM.
 
#66 ·
Ram parts can be pretty hard to find at the wreckers in southern Ontario. May take a while to find a pcm there. You would be better too look on the boards 'for sale' or on ebay to find it in a reasonable time.

Indy & 97 SST made 15hp more than other 360s only up to 98 model year when all 360 (318 also) increased hp to 245hp (230/5.2 from 220) and the 98SST saw 250. Besides stripes and color matched pieces they also came with AR 17x9" alum rims with GY Eagle GTII.
Back in 96 factory rims werent bigger than 16" so the rims were something special though things have changed a fair bit since then ;)

Quite a few tuners out there though most are not plug and play and you have to open the harness to wire them in. SMT6 is popular with the turbo hemi guys, I have one in my truck right now though I disabled it. Got it running a bit faster than my mp pcm (piggybacks it) last year but had some issues that were amplified when I added the Procharger. Paid 400 for the smt6.

Lots of guys with 360/408s go with the FAST standalone engine management but its in the same price range as the AEM. Expect to pay a lot more for a full stand alone engine management over a piggy back. The FAST is not plug n play unless you pay 2800 & get the full wiring harness and cel eliminator and wideband o2.
Wanna play you gotta pay.

http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/fastsystem.html
http://perfectpower.com/

Ive heard of some with the 5.9s getting detonation with a B&G flash. Sometimes have to send it back for a second flash is they give you too much timing.(free/except shipping)
 
#68 ·
chizzle1 said:
may run a little ruff and idle a little higher until the new PCM 'learns', usually takes about 50-100 miles.

edit: when you get the other PCM swapped in, take it to autozone (or any parts store with a scanner tool) and erase any stored codes that were in the PCM.
I suppose I was very lucky here. I matched the numbers exactly, and found one, I REPEAT ONE P56040440AD PCM for a 97 Dodge Ram. Miraculously, it was about 20-minutes from here WAY out on a farm like junkyard. I couldn’t even find one in 7-states I checked in the U.S. Swapped it out and it worked cherry. Ok, so now we have our backup PCM. I took the death flashed one and set it out to B&G. See my tests and results with it here: http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107898&page=1&pp=20
 
#69 ·
RM Indy said:
Ram parts can be pretty hard to find at the wreckers in southern Ontario. May take a while to find a pcm there. You would be better too look on the boards 'for sale' or on ebay to find it in a reasonable time.

SNIP SNIP... So we don't cause scrollamania :)
Hey, thanks for the great info RM.

Yep, finding Ram parts, or at least PCM’s for 97’s is almost impossible. I did find a spare PCM eventually, and sent my death flashed one to B&G. The over advanced timing issue was something that I was concerned with as well, but thankfully those concerns were unfounded when I got it back. I only run 94-octane, which may help, but MAN… This SS/T is now a screamer, as opposed to a dog slow truck.

No need to repost all of my tests /comments here, as I started a new thread titled:

Goodbye death flash… Hello KILLER Power!
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107898&page=1&pp=20

Hey… You were the one that said “I would not trust anyone else except B&G for a re-flash”, so I put my money on it. Fortunately, the gamble paid off and I now have one nasty ass bite from that 360. I was looking for your comments regarding something else on the ‘above mentioned’ thread regarding ‘sane’ rev limits on a stock 360. If you read through the discussion, you’ll see it.

I will also try to get out and see you at the strip this year, since I’m only an hour or so away. Just need to find the time!!

Thanks again,

Dave
 
#70 ·
ahab.bligh said:
Har,
Why don't ye modify the timing pick up sensor at the flywheel, you can
get up to 6 deg. advancement. cheap fix.
Ahab
That was also on the table as an option, but I was reluctant, since there’s no one around here to help.. No more Dodge stealership, and not many local mechanics terribly knowledgeable on Ram performance, or tricks. As a result, if I mucked something up, I may be looking at towing the poor Ram almost 40-miles to the nearest Stealership. I just wasn’t comfortable with the potential consequences of a screwing something up.

Up to now, I was a GM guy, mostly specialized in 1st generation small block chevs that were carburated. The Dodge engine, as well as the newer PCM based architecture is something I can figure out, but it’s going to take a little more than a few months. Therefore, I’m not brave enough to engage in too many self-implemented mods, until I better understand what it is I’m actually doing.

Thanks man,

Dave
 
#71 ·
glad to hear it worked out for you...so did the B&G flash remove the torque governor?

Was it the price we discussed on the phone?

Thinking about going ahead and getting it done, since the stroker kit will be atleast a year down the road.
 
#72 ·
chizzle1 said:
glad to hear it worked out for you...so did the B&G flash remove the torque governor?

Was it the price we discussed on the phone?

Thinking about going ahead and getting it done, since the stroker kit will be atleast a year down the road.
Called Chizzle by phone....
 
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