1936 Dodge pick up; or 33-53 Chrysler - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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post #1 of 15 Old 08-26-2019, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
Mika75
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1936 Dodge pick up; or 33-53 Chrysler

I have searched the topics; but couldn't find anything on this subject.

I've got a 36 Dodge pickup truck which I've had for 24 years.

The rear transmission seal has leaked the whole time I have owned this truck. I have replaced the seal twice only to find out the rubber ring within the seal has worn a groove in the output shaft. It is, after all, 83 years old.

I understand that this rear transmission seal was used on 1933 to 1953 Chrysler products.

I'm trying not to have to replace that transmission shaft. I was wondering if anybody else has run into this problem and has found a fix for it.

Since many of these Mopar parts are interchangeable, I was hoping I could find a seal for another model; a Plymouth, De Soto, Windsor Fargo; or whatever. A seal that would fit and ride a little differently on that output shaft.

But since the same seal was used from 33 to 53 I'm not having much luck.

I was wondering if I could use a spacer of some sort between the back of that transmission seal and the transmission housing which would force the transmission seal to ride a little further out on a fresh part of that output shaft.

I don't know if that would have any effect on the brake band which attaches on the back of that transition shaft. The drive shaft attaches to that hand brake housing.

Any suggestions of assistance would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-27-2019, 06:05 AM
Ray Bell
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Some, or maybe a lot of, harmonic balancers/front pulleys have a similar problem. To resolve that, seal makers have come up with thin stainless steel sleeves which sit over the original seal area.

If you can find one of those the right size you might be in business. Talk to a bearing service outlet, which is where you'd most likely find the variety of seals etc you need to know about.
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post #3 of 15 Old 08-27-2019, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Ray! That's a fantastic idea, I never knew or thought such a thing was available.

I looked on the Timkin website, for starters; I'll need to find the precise measurement of the output shaft. I'll continue to search for that though.

Thanks again, I have renewed hope!
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post #4 of 15 Old 09-04-2019, 02:54 AM
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Let me know how you get on...

I do think, however, you'll have a better chance going to a shop rather than on the internet.

These blokes just love getting out their verniers and giving them some excercise once in a while, solving a problem for you is their dream and gives them a lot of satisfaction.

There must be a big bearing retailer or wholesaler near you.
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post #5 of 15 Old 09-04-2019, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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I looked online and found what I thought was a fit on Advanced Auto's website. However, when it arrived, it was much smaller than what I had surmised the description to be.

I just went to NAPA, as I also looked on their website, however, the guy said it was not an item they stocked and because shipping was involved, I'd be stuck with the $45 gadget whether it fit or not.

As for your comment about a business that deals in such items and helpful counter people, that is very true.

When I lived in Baton Rouge, where I had originally bought the truck, I needed to rebuild the transmission. The front and rear bearings were listed on various Dodge and Chrysler restoration websites, as well as catalogues, for upwards of $150 a piece.

I went to Motion Industries, a place that made bearings from about the size of a finger nail, to the size of a truck.

I brought the original bearing with me. The girl looked it up, said the item number was too old, cross referenced it and brought out two from the stock room at $20 each. So, yes, I completely agree with you. However; I no longer live in the city. I am in a rural area where everything has to be shipped out to get anything done: brake shoes relined, water pumps repaired, engine blocks maga-fluxed, and the like.

A suggestion that was made to me, was to clean the shaft, fill in the groove wit JB Weld and, using some very fine emery cloth, sand it smooth. Also, to perhaps find a seal that would ride on a different location on the shaft or; perhaps one with a slightly larger diameter O ring.

I'll let you know what happens.
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post #6 of 15 Old 09-05-2019, 03:30 PM
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There are many different kinds of repair sleeves made for just this problem. Knowing the diameter of the shaft, you should be able to find a sleeve that will solve this issue. Also, there are some seals available with double grooves that ride around the worn area, but I have no idea if they exist for your application.
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post #7 of 15 Old 09-05-2019, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Guyonearth, I appreciate your input.

I will begin to remove the seat, take up the floor mat and remove the floorboards this weekend.

I will then be in a better position to remove the driveshaft, parking brake hub, and the rear transmission housing.

I'll remove the old seal, check the diameter of the shaft and see what I can find.

I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks again for all the suggestions.
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post #8 of 15 Old 09-19-2019, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, here is the latest...

I pulled out the transmission and opened it up. I noticed some metal in the bottom of the transmission. So, I took it all apart.

After closer inspection, I found some teeth broken and some damaged. I also found broken roller bearings in the bottom of the transmission, and the input shaft bearing was broken.

I suppose after 83 years, things wear out. I am glad the leak brought me to the point of removing the transmission for closer inspection.

I found a '37 "rebuildable core" and bought it. When I receive it, I'll take it apart to see what I can use.

The rear seal was shot, and it was the parking brake unit that had the groove worn into it. The transmission I bought has the parking brake unit attached.

I'm confident I will be able to get the internal parts I need from the second transmission. I expect to have to buy at least one main bearing.

My truck looks good, although I've had it for some 24 years, its still a work in progress. It is also pretty much a daily driver. I suppose if you have a vehicle with some age on it, you need a toolbox to go along with it.

I appreciate the responses I received; and I will get it back on the road again. Hopefully by the end of October, at least.
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post #9 of 15 Old 09-21-2019, 02:32 PM
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Photos would be good...

I hope your 'rebuildable core' has the parts you need.
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post #10 of 15 Old 09-21-2019, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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As requested; the 1st picture shows the transmission taken apart. I drained the oil before I removed the transmission from the truck.

I took it apart and cleaned the housing. In the 1st picture you can see the bearing is still attached to the input shaft. Upon closer inspection, I found it to be cracked. Probably due to the leak and it running hot. I haven't inspected the output bearing yet.

The 2nd picture shows some of the damaged roller bearings and spacers.

The transmission I am expecting looks to be complete. I am sure I can use much of what's in it. Although, I will buy new input and output bearings.
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post #11 of 15 Old 09-23-2019, 01:32 AM
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That looks like a challenging project. Hope you'll get all the parts needed.
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post #12 of 15 Old 09-28-2019, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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The other transmission arrived yesterday. Now I've got two transmissions in pieces.

While the cases are slightly different; the '37 has a different parking brake hook-up and no mounts for the brake handle like mine has, everything else seems to be in very good condition. I believe I will be able to use most of the internal parts.

Not that mine are that bad, it's just the '37 parts appear to be much cleaner; no chipped gears, and all the roller bearings and spacers appear to be in good condition.

I'll continue to clean it up and will order at least a new input shaft bearing. I will begin to put it all together this weekend; but don't expect to have it ready to install for about 2 weeks. I have to wait for the new bearing(s) to arrive, and I have other projects going on too.

I'll keep you posted. I don't think pictures would help, as the internal parts are the same, except in better shape than what I had already posted.
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-01-2019, 02:53 AM
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Good to see you're getting it together...

Wrong parts arriving might be par for the course, but you should still be able to get all the bearings before too long. Seals as well, I'd think.

The critical thing is that seal surface you were worried about... look forward to hearing (or even seeing)...
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post #14 of 15 Old 10-01-2019, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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The transmission I bought is a '37, I have a '36. So, there are some slight differences. The 37 has a different parking brake unit and no place to attach my 36 hand brake. Consequently, I'll be using my 36 case, which is good.

I took the best roller bearings from the lot and installed them where they needed to be.

I used my reverse gear, even though the 37 was fine. I will also use my input shaft, even though the 37 is fine.

I ended up with a few extra parts which I hope to never have to use.

I did order new input and output bearings and will install them when I get them. At that time, I should be able to install the transmission in the truck.

If they post as I uploaded them, the 1st picture is of the inside of the 36 transmission. You can see my small reverse gear and the 37 cluster gear. The red grease is an initial lubricant and also used to hold the 44 needle bearings in place inside of the cluster gear, which you can't see.

As I had said earlier, while my gears were okay, the 37's were better. So, I used them.

The 2nd picture is of the main shaft, and all it's gears, clutch, springs and balls. I will clean it up before I install it into the transmission.

The 3rd picture is of my hand brake unit. The part you are looking at gets inserted in the rear of the transmission. It mates up with a seal, which is inserted into the rear of the transmission.

If you look closely at the picture, you can see a slight groove worn into the handbrake unit. The original seal, made of leather and felt, rides in that groove and doesn't provide a good seal. The new one I bought is made of rubber, and has two lips which hopefully provide a secure seal.

The 4th picture will hopefully help explain the whole ordeal.
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File Type: jpg 00100dPORTRAIT_00100_BURST20191001094140673_COVER_1569945827395.jpg (605.0 KB, 7 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_20191001_094302_1569946804272.jpg (545.0 KB, 7 views)
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-08-2019, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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I began to put it all back together two days ago, and finished early this afternoon. It runs good, and so far, no leaks.

I will keep in mind the sleeves, should it begin to leak. I thank you all for your suggestions and comments.
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