408 Smoker vs 318/Procharger? - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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post #1 of 17 Old 12-25-2009, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
Lee Peterson
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408 Smoker vs 318/Procharger?

Hey all Merry Christmas!

Im thinking for next year I want to Put a turbo on my truck or build a mild 408. What would be better on fuel as a daily driver? Also would a mild 408 in a ext cab short box beat a 2007 hemi ram?

Thanks!

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

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Hughes FI Air Gap
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-28-2009, 12:15 AM
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Depends on how you build each. Generally a forced air induction engine is 45% more efficient that the same engine naturally aspirated. For low end grunt a bigger displacement engine will preform better than a higher reving smaller engine. The bigger engine will probably drink more, but the turbo will need more expensive fuel.

1998 1 ton dually 4x4. 12valve Cummins 5 speed manual. TST # 10 fuel plate DPI 75 hp injectors ATS 3 piece exhaust manifold BHAF intake 5" Turbo back exhaust dual 5" stacks South Bend 13.5 clutch 2001 flip out towing mirrors 16 degrees of timing and 3000GS BD Super B turbo
Dynoed at 452 horse power
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post #3 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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What about a stock 360 bottom end with some performance upgrades.

Comp Cams 264HR-12
MAGNUM IRON RAMS W/ 2.02' VLVS & SPRNGS
HUGHES / EDELBROCK FI AIRGAP KIT
SS ROCKER ARM KIT 1.6:1 ( IRON HEADS)

What kinda power would I be looking at with that combo and a 9:1 comp ratio?

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

360 Magnum
Hughes FI Air Gap
52mm BBK TB
210/220 .512I.512E 110 LSA cam
MSD 6A , Blaster 2 Coil
Spintech muffler
SCT tuned by FlyinRyan


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post #4 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 02:29 PM
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Confusing thread lol
Just an fyi
Smoker is a diesel
360gasser can be bored stroked to 408ci (can go as hi as 426/not recommended)
318 bored stroked you can get up to 390ci
Procharger is a supercharger not a turbo

That said, what motor do you have?
How much you looking to spend?'
Whats your power goal & did you want to do a turbo or supercharger?

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Toy...96 Ram Indy
408ci/8.5cr all forged/billet
Procharger D-1SC (polished) w/3core a/a intercooler

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post #5 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM Indy View Post
Confusing thread lol
Just an fyi
Smoker is a diesel
360gasser can be bored stroked to 408ci (can go as hi as 426/not recommended)
318 bored stroked you can get up to 390ci
Procharger is a supercharger not a turbo

That said, what motor do you have?
How much you looking to spend?'
Whats your power goal & did you want to do a turbo or supercharger?
LOL I don't know what I want. I want something for a daily driver thats reliable, makes good power. I have a 318 now but im going to be modding a 360 for my truck. I wanna be running 35" tires 4.56 gears and have power on the hiway to pass, the truck is slow right now. Im trying to keep it around $6000. If I go forced induction I think a supercharger is the best option as I go off-roading. Id like to be around 400hp on engine if possible.

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

360 Magnum
Hughes FI Air Gap
52mm BBK TB
210/220 .512I.512E 110 LSA cam
MSD 6A , Blaster 2 Coil
Spintech muffler
SCT tuned by FlyinRyan


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Last edited by Lee Peterson; 01-11-2010 at 04:23 PM.
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post #6 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 04:26 PM
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Is that 6k paying for gears tires as well?
How much of the work will you be doing yourself?

11 Bighorn 4x4 5.7, K&N FIPK, BD GT+, Herculiner, Extang Encore, Bedrug
Toy...96 Ram Indy
408ci/8.5cr all forged/billet
Procharger D-1SC (polished) w/3core a/a intercooler

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post #7 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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6k is just on the engine/charger. Id rather have a shop put it toghther, but I woudn't mind doing it myself.

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

360 Magnum
Hughes FI Air Gap
52mm BBK TB
210/220 .512I.512E 110 LSA cam
MSD 6A , Blaster 2 Coil
Spintech muffler
SCT tuned by FlyinRyan


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post #8 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 06:19 PM
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6k is a decent budget. Could get you a basic 390, or 408 if you have a 360 block.
Or, 50mm fastman, 202iron rams prepped, instead of the F1, just cut to runners back a bit and get some headers add the Procharger. It will leave you a bit left over for some gauges you should add (boost/fuel pressure/air to fuel) & exhaust work.
Procharger is an easy install that can be done with basic tools over the course of a weekend or two. The motor work is a bit more involved but doeable if your up to it.
Regardless of which way you decide to go, tranny will need some attention. If its high mileage & stock, it will not take the kind of hp/trq you would be making with either option. Bigger pan, extra cooler (if you have one already) & a shift kit would be wise investments if not a full rebuild.

11 Bighorn 4x4 5.7, K&N FIPK, BD GT+, Herculiner, Extang Encore, Bedrug
Toy...96 Ram Indy
408ci/8.5cr all forged/billet
Procharger D-1SC (polished) w/3core a/a intercooler

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post #9 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Where would be a good place to get the prochager? Also do you think a stock 318 can handle a procharger? My current engine has 165,000km/102,000miles.

Thanks for all the help RM Indy!

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

360 Magnum
Hughes FI Air Gap
52mm BBK TB
210/220 .512I.512E 110 LSA cam
MSD 6A , Blaster 2 Coil
Spintech muffler
SCT tuned by FlyinRyan


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post #10 of 17 Old 01-11-2010, 10:14 PM
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Its not a good idea to add boost to a stock engine, the bottom can handle the added stress and you need to upgrade your fuel system, get a good tune, and upgrade your trans to handle the extra power.
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post #11 of 17 Old 01-12-2010, 10:17 PM
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Its not a good idea to add boost to a stock engine, the bottom can handle the added stress and you need to upgrade your fuel system, get a good tune, and upgrade your trans to handle the extra power.
Nothing wrong with Magnums bottom end. It can handle boost no problem
Heads & hdgskts are junk, the plenum is a joke. Eliminate those issues & you can run boost without issuse. Think it was Duner & his 99 Dak RT, hes run mid 400 to mid 500rwhp on a stock bottom end for 6yrs. Go to the Delphi board, Dakrt board, Bionic dodge etc etc & you will see quite a few hard core guys that have made serious pwr with stock bottom ends. My bottom end looked new when I tore it down to stroke it. Had low mileage but Ive dragraced my Indy over 1000x at the track with at least 800 passes on slicks. Use to street race it all the time as well. Bottom end looked like new when I tore it down to go nuts.

Just this week Marty from KRC posted dyno for a stock 360. Welded plenum under kegger & put better hdgskts with 60lb inj & SCT tuner spinning a 10psi remote turbo 413/505 to the wheels.

Look at Lee's sig, he has hughes plenum plate, SCT tuner, if he replaces the heads & puts good gaskets under them he is good to go. I also mentioned regardless of which route he goes need to at least upgrade trans if not fresh rebuild

11 Bighorn 4x4 5.7, K&N FIPK, BD GT+, Herculiner, Extang Encore, Bedrug
Toy...96 Ram Indy
408ci/8.5cr all forged/billet
Procharger D-1SC (polished) w/3core a/a intercooler

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(ets in sig pic = mild 360 w/7psi @ approx 390-400rwhp)


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post #12 of 17 Old 01-12-2010, 11:03 PM
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I thought our blocks had stock hypereutectic pistons from the factory, i know the rods are pretty nice, when i di my rebuild the bottom end was wrecked, the previous owner ran about 20k with a blown plenum. I knew the compression ratio is about 9.1 stock which is perfect for boost it all really comes down to the tune.
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post #13 of 17 Old 01-13-2010, 09:06 AM
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Tune use to be a major issue so that was one of the biggest limiting factors to running boost unless you had a stand alone. SCT changed all that about 4yrs ago. Factory is cast crank, forged rods & yes hypereutectic pistons. Good tune & 7-8psi is fine with the good hds, gskts & an alum plenum plate under the kegger. Not ideal by any means but its adequate.

Lee
2 other options, getting tb, heads/gskts & finding a used Vortech along with bigger inj to go w/SCT. Or getting a universal STS turbo kit. Downfall of the STS is its under the truck and if you go offroading could be an issue of it getting damaged or sucking up water. Need to have some decent welding skills & have something to cut the pipework with so maybe best to get a shop to plumb it.

Just noticed your in Ontario, close to the GTA?
Being in Cda costs fair bit more to ship stuff up here n get it across the border. At least the $ is up. If you are in/near the GTA and are serious, I can ask my trans guy if he's still the Ontario distributor for Procharger if you decide to go that route.

11 Bighorn 4x4 5.7, K&N FIPK, BD GT+, Herculiner, Extang Encore, Bedrug
Toy...96 Ram Indy
408ci/8.5cr all forged/billet
Procharger D-1SC (polished) w/3core a/a intercooler

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post #14 of 17 Old 01-13-2010, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Im still not sure what I should do, I might go the 408 stroker route. I found a Scat kit with forged crank, rods and pistons for $1500US at Jegs. The kit is 10:1comp with 62cc iron heads from hughes. Either way im going to need some time to save some $$$. RmIndy im about 120 mins from GTA. Have you ever heard of Active racing machine shop in Missisauga?

Full Race Prep Block

For the customer who likes to supply his own parts, and build his own, Active Engines offers a fully machined block which includes the following:

Degreasing, magnaflux testing, deburr, align hone mains, index bore & precision hone on CK-10, including torque plates, decks squared, final cleaning, cam bearings & block plugs installed.

Pricing based on good exchange........... $850.00


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-48035/?rtype=10
http://activeengines.com/block.htm

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

360 Magnum
Hughes FI Air Gap
52mm BBK TB
210/220 .512I.512E 110 LSA cam
MSD 6A , Blaster 2 Coil
Spintech muffler
SCT tuned by FlyinRyan


Trucks & Guns Club Member #88

Last edited by Lee Peterson; 01-13-2010 at 08:00 PM.
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post #15 of 17 Old 01-13-2010, 07:26 PM
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Where are you gonna find 68cc heads?
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post #16 of 17 Old 01-13-2010, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Raine883 View Post
Where are you gonna find 68cc heads?
My bad I misread there 62cc so the kit will be around 10:1 comp.

2002 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4.

360 Magnum
Hughes FI Air Gap
52mm BBK TB
210/220 .512I.512E 110 LSA cam
MSD 6A , Blaster 2 Coil
Spintech muffler
SCT tuned by FlyinRyan


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post #17 of 17 Old 01-13-2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RM Indy View Post
Tune use to be a major issue so that was one of the biggest limiting factors to running boost unless you had a stand alone. SCT changed all that about 4yrs ago. Factory is cast crank, forged rods & yes hypereutectic pistons. Good tune & 7-8psi is fine with the good hds, gskts & an alum plenum plate under the kegger. Not ideal by any means but its adequate.

.
I guess im still stuck in the 25+psi 4cyl car mentality lol.

Your looking at the same stroker kit im thinking about buying. I found a block at the local pick and pull, paid $100 for it and paid a shop $250 to machine it.
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