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TIMING CHAIN REPLACE-ADVANCE or NOT?

21K views 45 replies 9 participants last post by  trucklover 
#1 ·
99 Ram 5.9L Magnum, street, no major pinging in the past.

I will replace my "wet noodle" soggy OEM timing chain combo with Cloyes True Roller set.

I am tempted to install it 4 degrees advanced. I am affraid that it may give me pinging.
I stay with a stock cam, (which is, I assume, retarded for emissions) Superchips 3715 should be here next week.

Am I heading for a ping trouble?
 
#27 ·
BC

How do you like the hughes airgap?
 
#28 ·
bcdalton said:
trucklover & 94RAM5spd- Thanks for the website regarding the different characteristics of a cam. Very informational and helpful, especially the calculator that determines the overlap value. I'm starting to understand and gain a clearer picture what the numbers on a cam spec card means. This information is definitely helping me choose a custom grind that will meet my needs with performance as well as being emissions friendly. Thanks once again.

I am learning a lot also. 94RAM5Spd has taught me a lot!!
 
#29 ·
94RAM5spd- I like it a lot. I can feel it start to pull around 1900 RPM's and around 2500 it begins to pull really hard all the way up until, I guess redline. I've never done that though. A big performance difference over the stock kegger. I actually bought the intake to help with towing. I wanted more passing and towing power in the mid to upper range. I was already in the upper range with the 4:56 gears. The stock intake seemed to die after it reached 3800 rpm's which I hated when I needed more power for climbing or passing while I towed. The big plus with this intake is I didn't lose any low end power. Maybe the 4:56 gears helped compensate for that. Any ways I think it is a great mod and I hope this helps.
 
#31 ·
It does, I am looking at that intake. Thanks
 
#32 ·
94RAM5spd--I have another question. Where do I place the dial indicator to get correct results? Some of the instructions I have read suggests installing a solid lifter in order to get accurate results, some states just to take the rocker arm off and put it on the pushrod, others say to use the light checking springs (which I do not have) in order to check. What do you suggest?
 
#33 ·
With heads on the engine;

Solid roller lifter with pushrod

or

Use light checking springs in place of the regular valve springs on #1 intake and exhaust valve.

or

Modified Hyd roller lifter and pushrod
When degreeing in your cam, you need to position the dial indicator plunger in a stable spot so that it will read acurately and repeatedly. Aquire a used-but-still-good hydraulic lifter for youe engine, remove the snap ring and pushrod cup. Invert the cup and glue it into the lifter body. The bottom of the inverted cup has an oil hole in the center that makes for a great place to seat the dial indicator plunger, making your dial-in procedure easier. After use, find a clean snug place in your toolbox untill the next time.

If you dont have a hyd roller lifter that you can modify let me know.
Hope this helps
 
#34 ·
Also you need a piston stop that goes in the #1 sparkplug hole for finding absolute TDC
 
#35 ·
94RAM5spd said:
With heads on the engine;

Solid roller lifter with pushrod

or

Use light checking springs in place of the regular valve springs on #1 intake and exhaust valve.

or

Modified Hyd roller lifter and pushrod
When degreeing in your cam, you need to position the dial indicator plunger in a stable spot so that it will read acurately and repeatedly. Aquire a used-but-still-good hydraulic lifter for youe engine, remove the snap ring and pushrod cup. Invert the cup and glue it into the lifter body. The bottom of the inverted cup has an oil hole in the center that makes for a great place to seat the dial indicator plunger, making your dial-in procedure easier. After use, find a clean snug place in your toolbox untill the next time.

If you dont have a hyd roller lifter that you can modify let me know.
Hope this helps
I have a set of light valve springs on the way, the piston stop , and the offset key kit (everybody was out of stock on the keys, I finally found a place that had them). Is it hard to change the valve springs? If I have the piston up on top dead center, I shouldn't have to use my compressor to "pump" the cylinder up to keep the valve from dropping, correct? What tool do you reccomend for removing the valve springs on these Dodges? (I bet you will be glad when I get this finished!!) Thanks again!!
 
#37 ·
trucklover said:
That looks like the one I have.

It's not hard to swap in the checking springs, just time consuming I guess you could say. If you dont have the intake off, that is the route you need to go. You shouldnt need a compressor, but I would to be on the safe side, if you go that route. Make sure you have control of the valve stem locks when your taking the springs off. Dont drop them in the engine.

Just take your time
 
#39 ·
At this moment I have the light checking springs installed, but the gear is still set to four degrees advance. Will I have to set the timing gear to 0 degrees (instead of 4 degrees advance where it is now in order to find absolute TDC?

Its really weird now. I turn the gears so where the cam gear is pointing 6 o'clock and the crank gear is point 12 o'clock (still have it 4 degrees advanced) (I can hear the air escaping out of the piston stop) but I don't think the piston is all the way up. I can screw the piston stop all the way in without touching the piston. To be sure the stop is the correct length I unscrewed it a little and then turned the engine counterclockwise and then tightened the stop. I then turned the engine back so the piston would hit the stop and it will go beyond the zero mark before making contact with the piston. :huh: The stop is eventually making contact with the piston, so I am obviously doing something wrong. I am really confused at this time! :help:
 
#40 · (Edited)
Will I have to set the timing gear to 0 degrees (instead of 4 degrees advance where it is now in order to find absolute TDC?
yes line it up dot to dot before you start.


Remove all the rocker arms and keep them in order so the valves will not be bent.

Next go here http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/803.pdf this spells it out real good.

Hope this helps.
 
#41 ·
94RAM5spd said:
Remove all the rocker arms and keep them in order so the valves will not be bent.
I have the rocker arms from the #1 cylinder removed, but none of the others. (I also removed all the spark plugs so the engine would turn easier)How would a valve get bent on the other cylinders that I am not using the piston stop on?
 
#42 ·
Take all the rocker arms off so there is less tension when rotating the crank. With a piston stop you will be rotating it both clockwise and counter clockwise to find TDC. The crane link is an excellent step by step instruction.
 
#43 ·
I put a new timing set on in November and used the 4 degree advance setting. It made just a small improvement in low end torque but did not give a noticeable increase in mileage. Disappointed to say the least. My advice- use the 4+ advance if you have to replace your timing set due to age and wear, but don't bother just because. As for the Superchips 3715, didn't do much for me so look for something better. I don't want to spend the money for SCT but might buy the new Hypertech E-Con. Wish I could figure out how to hack the damn thing and experiment on my own.
 
#44 ·
I put a new timing set on in November and used the 4 degree advance setting. It made just a small improvement in low end torque but did not give a noticeable increase in mileage. Disappointed to say the least. My advice- use the 4+ advance if you have to replace your timing set due to age and wear, but don't bother just because. As for the Superchips 3715, didn't do much for me so look for something better. I don't want to spend the money for SCT but might buy the new Hypertech E-Con. Wish I could figure out how to hack the damn thing and experiment on my own.
 
#45 ·
mbehr55 said:
I put a new timing set on in November and used the 4 degree advance setting. It made just a small improvement in low end torque but did not give a noticeable increase in mileage. Disappointed to say the least. My advice- use the 4+ advance if you have to replace your timing set due to age and wear, but don't bother just because.

If you really wanted to stick with the stock cam, verify the valve events and plug it into a cam doctor. They will be able to give you the best way to set it up. Personally I would pull that POS cam, but that's just me. I dont recommend just advancing it until you verify it. Bad habit to get into.
 
#46 ·
I ended up setting mine 2 degrees advanced (after degreeing the cam, thanks to a lot of help from 94Ram5spd!). It has about the same bottom end as it did with the 4 degree (a little difference not much) but it does pull better on a long grade when you are using higher RPM. If I did a lot of off-roading and low RPM driving the 4 degree works well. I mostly do on-road driving so I do need some performance in the middle rpm range (around 3200-4000 rpm). That is why I decided to split the 4 degree advance, that way I get better performance all the way around. But all engines are different, that is why it is very important to check where your cam is before you mess with the timing. Like someone mentioned before, I would not do this unless I was changing the timing chain.
 
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