ProScan (Laptop Based) Diagnostic Scan Tool - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
 
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#1 Old 10-22-2005, 11:24 AM
dholingw
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Exclamation ProScan (Laptop Based) Diagnostic Scan Tool

Has anyone here tried this? It looks pretty cool. Seems to offer a comprehensive range of internal component statuses and can read/reset Check Engine Lights, etc. Even clocks your time from 0 to 60 and ¼ mile, etc? Ships with the ISO interface, OBD-II, and serial cables. Appears to run under Microsoft's .NET Framework v1.1. The Windows based interface look fairly impressive.

All this for $99? OK… So is it too good too be true, Snake Oil, or worth the money? I’d really like to grab one of these. If anyone has “any” experience on this device, I’d really like to hear about it.

Many thanks,

D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here
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#2 Old 10-23-2005, 10:20 AM
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I have been using one of the other programs for three yrs (ScanTool). Wondered what happened to ProScan. (He finished school, got married, totally re-wrote the program code.) Now that I see he has upgraded, I think I will buy it also. Being in .NET means he can do some pretty easy program upgrading as needed. I would not recommend running a .NET compliant program on W98 or WMe. W2K or XP should be used on the laptop.

I have re-couped the cost many times over. My first event three yrs ago was figuring out a transmission problem on a 99 Grand Caravan. Turned out to be a $16 part and a $6 metric socket did the job as opposed to the transmission replacement that the dealer wanted.

Keep in mind this is OBDII, so vehicle has to be 96 and up. The program gives you data and you still have to do your homework. Once your friends and family find out you have it, they will be calling you. The more expensive handheld code scanners will do a lot of what these programs will do, but the user interface is so much easier to use on the laptop, esp for us old guys that can't see the small read-outs and can't remember all the button punching sequences on the handheld! So, if you have a laptop that meets the hardware requirements, give it ride.
My two pesos worth.
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#3 Old 10-23-2005, 12:58 PM
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Dodge Programming Fantasy, or Eventual Reality?…

No doubt, most of the money invested in the current range of handheld programmers/ scanners is the hardware itself. Hmm… $400.00 to $850.00 is a hell of a lot of money to pay for (what in many cases) provides 2 or 3 pre-programmed performance settings and ability to alter tire height settings, rev limiter, speed limiter, etc. Also note that most of the current offerings ‘do not’ allow you to upgrade the programmers features. Heh... You can now purchase an entire laptop for that price

The .NET approach could really unleash an endless supply of possibilities here and likely as close to ‘open source’ as we’ll ever get. I haven’t played around with the .NET developer yet –I’m more of a Unix guy. In any event, a nice LapTop interface could provide an ulimited number of current/ future possibilities.

The REAL possibilities?

How about this… A scaled down/ user friendly .NET programming interface emerges. In other words… Those of us comfortable with/ daring enough to get our hands dirty with “actual programming” can begin experimenting and sharing our engine tweaks.

Those tweaks could be uploaded/ zipped up and placed in a forum category called “Dodge Ram Hacks.”

Examples:

Bahbahbooey’s-performance-shift-points.zip

This hack is For…
-> 96 to 98 Dodge Rams
-> 46RE transmissions
-> 5.9 L engines

Description: This hack provides tighter shifts from your 46RE, plus solves the problem of premature engaging of the lockup torque converter when going up hills under 40 MPH.

Instructions…

Download this file and place it in C:\Program Files\Dodge-Tuneup. This hack backs up your current PCM configuration. If it fails, you can simply restore your current settings.

Warnings: DO NOT install this hack on 4WD trucks, or transmissions other than the 46RE!


Immediate benefits:

Wow…. Hundreds of pages full of Dodge Ram downloadable hacks.

Obvious problems…

-> Emission compliance would likely go out the window
-> Risk of damage to your drive train
-> Risk of personal injury in worst cases scenario’s

Possible solutions:

-> The (developer interface) would need to run ‘actual’ simulations of your hack. In other words, the effects of your mods would be ran on a 'simulated' PCM.

-> The (developer interface) would deny ability to save/ write a program where proposed hacks/ mods could seriously damage drive train components, (i.e., setting the rev limiter to 9000 RPM), or something insane like that.

-> The (developer) interface would deny ability to save/ write a program where hacks/ mods clearly violate emissions standards.

Is this actually possible? I dunna know… The hardest part would be developing a Dodge programming interface, which would maintain a strong fail-safe policy. BUT if that ever ‘Did” happened…. We’d see mod options go from a mere 3 or 4, to 300 to 600 possible tweaks!!! Indeed, there are a few issues to consider, but if made possible could be a lot of fun. Ramble, ramble, ramble….

NOTE… I’m REALLY NEW to automotive programming, so it’s very possible everything I’ve mentioned above is impossible, or totally unviable. Oh well… It’s fun to dream


D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here

Last edited by dholingw; 10-23-2005 at 01:05 PM.
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#4 Old 10-23-2005, 02:52 PM
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I say fantasy.

".NET is the Microsoft Web services strategy to connect information, people, systems, and devices through software."

It's not relevant for engine control.

How would you ensure that some loser doesn't provide a program that destroys your motor (deliberately or accidently)?

1998 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab 4x4
Hughes Plenum Kit
Modified kegger with shortened runners
Superchips Microtuner
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#5 Old 10-23-2005, 03:08 PM
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It's addressed through the fail-safe architecture --in theory of course..

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here
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#6 Old 10-23-2005, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholingw
It's addressed through the fail-safe architecture --in theory of course..
I used to design real-time embedded software and it's harder than you think. But if you're keen on DIY engine control there's MegaSquirt.

1998 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab 4x4
Hughes Plenum Kit
Modified kegger with shortened runners
Superchips Microtuner
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#7 Old 10-23-2005, 04:36 PM
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I need to develop a better understanding of the OBDII landscape. I searched google, but could not find a general overview of its rudimentary architecture. I’m still confident we could provide programming options/tweaks, which are more plentiful/ robust than what you see now.

Ideally, a group of 2 or more programmers with a strong knowledge of OBDII would need to launch the project. As time progresses, the group would evolve in popularity and recognition amongst the auto enthusiast community.

ProScan to some degree has demonstrated (even with his 1st generation product) that this is quite possible. All he needs is more involvement, and or to create a community of programmers and beta testers. Maybe it begins with the Dodge people, or maybe Chevy. Yeah, sounds a lot like the open-source Unix community, but I believe this could be possible with OBDII as well. It just needs the ‘right’ people to start it. Either that, or watch the price of programmers creep up to the $1,000 mark with 6 to 8 months waits between upgrades and new releases

Wow, I checked out your link… Looks like MegaSquirt has some interesting stuff going on there. Similar to what I’m suggesting here, however somewhat limited to those with intermediate to advanced programming skills at very least. I like that Virtual Dashboard GUI, which is written in 16-bit Delphi. Again… killer stuff, but a scaled down version offering a variety of “fully tested” (pre-programmed) performance tweaks would make it more friendly to the average/ novice user

In any event, there should be WAY more progress in this arena over the past 5-years than what we're seeing now. MegaSquirt and ProScan seem to be going in the right direction though.

D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here

Last edited by dholingw; 10-23-2005 at 05:17 PM.
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#8 Old 10-23-2005, 05:31 PM
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ODB II

It's not a magic doorway into the PCM. It lets you read and write a limited number of parameters in the PCM. Some are generic (all cars provide the data) and some are enhanced (manufacturer specific). but I don't think you can change the program in the PCM.

I do remember reading a few years ago here about a programmer who actually wrote a new PCM program for his truck. I think he was from Norway. So there is software out there. As far as I know it was never finished but it did run an engine.

1998 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab 4x4
Hughes Plenum Kit
Modified kegger with shortened runners
Superchips Microtuner
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#9 Old 10-23-2005, 08:04 PM
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Ahh… Now that’s interesting. I was just going to say, why hasn’t anyone attempted a rewrite of the PCM yet. The parameters thing is interesting. So, it only provides limited access to a few functions, correct?

Hmm… This may seem like a really stupid question, but does the entire drive train communicate back to the PCM in one language? I mean… What would stop someone from rewriting a PCM in Linux for example? Does that mean that all of the sensors would now be rendered useless, since Linux would have no way of interpreting the info they’re sending?

I feel a rant coming on…

I guess I’m just tired of hearing that the onboard PCM is a big un-crackable secret. I’m tired of calling auto shops and being told that if it’s computer related, you should really take it to Dodge. Every time I walk into that dam shop, it costs me a minimum of $300.00. Finding a good Dodge mechanic seems almost impossible at times, since (at the end of the day) Dodge is really the only one that can access critical computer functions, and boy… Do they LOVE to charge for it.

If there was some way the community, or an ambitious after marketer could rewrite a PCM, and make it far more easier to access/ understand, then the ability for the community to diagnose and correct common problems could become considerably easier. It would sure save a lot of people a lot of money.

This stupid misfire problem I’m having in cylinder # 7 could now cost me a small fortune just in diagnostic charges. BS… I should be able to capture a highly verbose log from the PCM, then post it to this site for analyses by others. The improved PCM could easily do that, while converting the most specific of nuances of the engines heartbeat to meaningful displays. Funny how the manufacture conveniently fails to provide /allow access to this information.

Well A DTC perhaps, but how helpful is that? It's like an Apache server 500 Error, but no log files to tell you what went wrong 'prior to the error'. Gee why I'm I getting a server 500 error? Gee I don't know... Maybe I should open every file on the server and check for a syntax error. That would take what?? About 3-weeks? HAHAH... Imagine the money I could charge as a server adminstrator to track down a simple problem?

In essence, car manufactures have suppressed a lot of the useful progress we've made with computers, and have made them as mysterious as the Bellcore system, (the programming that drives our telephone system). Telco's have an excuse.... That programming has been around since the 70's. Car manufactures (on the other hand) enjoy obscene profits by keeping everyone in PCM oblivion. Nice..

Sorry for the rant… I’m off to the shop in the morning. I have a feeling that after God knows how much money, I’ll need to book it into the dealer anyway, and even then, it’s likely their prognosis will be based on guesstimates, needless replacements, and @ $80.00 per hour. Maybe I should take a second out on the house, like now

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here
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#10 Old 10-23-2005, 08:59 PM
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Welcome to the world of automotive repair. Theycan build a vehicle out of repair parts for 3x what the original vehicle cost. The same reason we are still forced to use gasoline as fuel instead of the other better fuels out there. (There is a system developed in Central MO where the vehicle uses Acetelyne and Ethanol injection. It burns cool enough to dump the cooling system and clean enough to extend oil life beyond 25,000 miles. Dyno tests on a Saturn SL 4cyl netted 400+ hp at the wheels. Much more efficient)

Big business will always quash better ideas if it means they will lose money.

2001 QUADCAB 4X4 SPORT 5.9 INTENSE BLUE

Truflow airfilter, Brass cap/rotor, Spiral core wires, NKG VPower, Hypertech coil, IAT relocation,
Magnaflow on stock pipe
Black Bullet nerf bars, Black Bullet Taillight Guards,
Limo Tint, Line of Fire LED underbed lights
Daniel Stern Lighting Mod
Colonel's Fiberglass Tonneau (found it for $75 in great condition with all the hardware!!)
Smiley Face air freshener, Two child safety seats
Ryan Newman Racing sticker
Hot Wife in the cab

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#11 Old 10-23-2005, 09:51 PM
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Indeed they will Sniper. We should be running on Hydrogen by now. BMW has had a fleet of test vehicles that have been running on it for a few years now in both Germany and California. Yeah… We can invent microchips that perform billions of instructions per second, but incredibly no one can find a way to get the internal combustion engine off of gasoline? Incredible, miraculous, and amazing, huh?

ANYWAY... There’s nothing stopping collective minds from finding a way to undermined what otherwise is just plain nonsense with this PCM stuff. We purchased these vehicles, and in some cases many vehicles from Dodge. The very least they could do in return ‘is not’ deny, hinder, or make performing our own diagnostics dam near impossible. What’s next? Welding the hoods of 2007’s shut? Hey.. If they could they would.

On a more positive note, there are more Laptop based diagnostic testers than I originally thought. I just bumped into a page of them. See below...

A good investment:

First of all, if any of you want to try out the LapTop based programmers/ diagnostic tools, you should really grab the BR-3 (OBDII) for PWM, VPW, ISO-9141, ISO 14230 connector. This allows you to interface your Dodge with your laptop. <See a large picture here>.

Have a look at a list of Windows, Mac, and Linux scan tools, (and possibly programmers too) here.

I REALLY like this interface here. Man… That’s what you call comprehensive, as well as useful. <Have a look at this one>

HAHA... This one also provides a DOS display of your Dodge: <See Here>

Again... I just found these, so I don't really know the extent of what they can do.

All seem to run under $100.00. I think I’m going to grab that BR-3 cable thingy and start testing a few of these out. As long as I backup my factory program, I should be fine. Sure better than $399.00, to $799.00 for the newer hand-held scan tools coming out.

If anyones tried any of the above yet, or has a comment on these, speak up

D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here

Last edited by dholingw; 10-23-2005 at 10:04 PM.
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#12 Old 10-23-2005, 11:45 PM
racerX_244
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i was looking into the software package at www.digimoto.com, mainly because it has the same functions as a G-tech (1/4 mile stats, 0-60, est. horsepower) along with diagnostic monitoring. trouble codes not really a worry, i can pull those by doing the ignition trick in my 02( key on,off,on,off,on,and code will show in odometer window)


"Spitfire"
2002 Dodge Dakota

Ext.Cab Sport 2WD Auto 3.9L V6, "239ci Super-Smallblock."


COIN HOLDER ASSOC. MEMBER #244

18's, 2" drop, cowl hood, 'cuda stripes, street scene grill, clear corners, bed cover, tint, stereo, interior trim painted, gauges, intake, fastman tb, 1.7 HS RR's, summit exhaust, 4.10's, transgo & powertrax, plenty more & more to come
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#13 Old 10-24-2005, 12:26 AM
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Hey, that’s pretty sweet…

This ones considerably more developed than the other ones I’ve seen so far. I think I just changed my mind. This looks like the winner for now.

Observation: Notice how all the LapTop based products don’t do any programming? I wonder why that is? Maybe they’re afraid you’ll attempt to hack the files and modify the parameters? Just sort of odd..

Thanks racerx,

D

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here
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#14 Old 10-24-2005, 02:31 AM
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don't thank me, thank fellow member kitcar, he found that site. and also found a way for me to have $100 less in my pocket

there's other obd-ii programs that you can adjust and calibrate, i guess you could call it. smt-6 and fast are the ones i know of. don't have a clue on how to use them or what all you can actually adjust, but its the tuning style for guys with wild stuff like turbo/supercharger/head&cam combos that the stock pcm can't handle.

theres places like b&g chrysler and socaldakota that can "flash" pcms new programs, maybe start chatting with them on how they actually do the physicall altering of the pcm?


"Spitfire"
2002 Dodge Dakota

Ext.Cab Sport 2WD Auto 3.9L V6, "239ci Super-Smallblock."


COIN HOLDER ASSOC. MEMBER #244

18's, 2" drop, cowl hood, 'cuda stripes, street scene grill, clear corners, bed cover, tint, stereo, interior trim painted, gauges, intake, fastman tb, 1.7 HS RR's, summit exhaust, 4.10's, transgo & powertrax, plenty more & more to come
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#15 Old 10-24-2005, 04:48 PM
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dholingw , The OBDII code readers(handheld or laptop) don't do any programming. I think you are confusing them with power programmers that also read OBDII codes.
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#16 Old 10-24-2005, 05:47 PM
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Well, technically I think a thanks to both of you would be in order. I spoke to Joel earlier today. I suggested a group buy on dodgetalk.com. He replied stating he’d offer a 15% discount to anyone from this forum, thus allowing people to purchase at their own pace. That seems cool. I think I’m going to place an order.

I hope I'm not violating any forum policies by mentioning that. I don't want to cause trouble with the admins. Not entirely sure if it's ok or not.

D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here
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#17 Old 10-24-2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaggedIndy
dholingw , The OBDII code readers(handheld or laptop) don't do any programming. I think you are confusing them with power programmers that also read OBDII codes.

Not Quite.. The discussion began with programmers and scan tools. Since the options are limited for programmers, I started studying the various reader types of utilities, which eventually led into the discussion you see now. Haven’t given up on programmers yet. Will begin with a comprehensive reader/ diagnostic tool for now. Wish there were some intermediate programmers out there.

Hyptertech and Super Chips go from an elementary way to re flash the PCM, to products like SMT-6 that go to the other extreme, which is highly advanced. I'm looking for something that allows some tweaking, but not through 2 or 3 pre-programmed options like Super Chips. I'd like to do a little more 'fine tuning' than that to stuff like shift points, fuel mixture, timing, etc

D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here

Last edited by dholingw; 10-24-2005 at 06:22 PM.
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#18 Old 04-23-2006, 01:57 PM
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There are laptop programs for GM vehicles like LS1 edit. Surely they have something for Mopar stuff.

What dont kill ya only makes you stronger!
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#19 Old 04-23-2006, 02:11 PM
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Yeah, this here seems to be making some progress: http://www.digimoto.com Not sure how many people have tried them with Ram's, but for the price, it seems fairly comprehensive.

Thanks,
D.

2 Sweet Rams

1st:

1998 1500 SLT
4X4
5.2 (318 CID)
100,000 miles
No mods on this one yet

2nd Ram:

1997 SS/T
5.9 L (360 CID)
120,000 miles

Mods thus far..
K&N Air filter
True dual exhaust dumped out the side
Glass Packs
B&G Performance PCM flash

More pics here
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