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Squad
 
  Amp ground spots - Posted: 09-16-2005, 05:28 PM
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Post #1

I have an 05 Ram and plan on putting in a sub and amp tomorrow, what are the most common grounding points in a standard cab Ram?
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04_on_22s
 
 Posted: 09-16-2005, 05:49 PM
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Usually on the floor pan would be good, just make sure to look under the truck before you drill. Look twice, drill once. Use a coarse sandpaper (80-100) to scuff all the paint from the spot you plan on grounding at. Use a good starlock grounding washer and self-tapper screw. Dont overtighten or you'll strip the metal and the srew will not hold and then you'll need a bigger screw.
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kansasdjjj
 
 Posted: 09-16-2005, 06:33 PM
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Post #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04_on_22s
Usually on the floor pan would be good, just make sure to look under the truck before you drill. Look twice, drill once. Use a coarse sandpaper (80-100) to scuff all the paint from the spot you plan on grounding at. Use a good starlock grounding washer and self-tapper screw. Dont overtighten or you'll strip the metal and the srew will not hold and then you'll need a bigger screw.

Ditto
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ScojoDak
 
 Posted: 09-16-2005, 07:01 PM
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Post #4

Anywhere on the chassis will work. On my 99 dakota cc, my amps are under the front seats. The grounds are in the floorbaord directly next to the amps.

Make sure the size of the ground cable is the same size as the power cable.

Keep the ground cable as short as possible.

After you have sanded the area to mount the ground strap, afix the cable and spray it with primer to keep it from rusting.

Good luck!

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ITSMIILLERTIME
 
 Posted: 09-16-2005, 08:22 PM
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Post #5

Now I have a ? for ya......How many subs are u putting behind ur seat? I also have a reg cab dodge 05 model and am putting 1 mtx 5500 behind my seat.....i have been looking for sub boxes and demensions. I want a really clean bass sound and still hit decent but take up as little of room as possible. Any help would be great thanks
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RamLion
 
 Posted: 09-16-2005, 09:52 PM
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Post #6

i went throught floor with the supplied holes and gounded to the frame of the truck with a grounding block with 0(zero)gauge monster power wire,oh yeah and take the paint off real good first
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Dracos
 
 Posted: 09-17-2005, 03:09 AM
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Post #7

I really wish you guys and girls would learn to find info with the search link in the top bar just below the DodgeTalk Logo, and post in the correct forum too.

Now to answer your question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squad
I have an 05 Ram and plan on putting in a sub and amp tomorrow, what are the most common grounding points in a standard cab Ram?
Rule one applies to every thing below, a fuse no more than 18 inches from the battery (shorter is better) rated at the total system fuse ratings (one amp that needs a 90 amp fuse means a 90 amp fuse is used at the battery, or 2 amps with 75 amp fuses each mean a 150 amp fuse is used at the battery)

I recommend for the best audio performance and better sound (stops the power supply from sagging) to run at least a four gage positive wire and four gage negative wire (two wires total) from the battery back to the amp if a single amp system. This is good up too about 1000 watts worth of amp, 1500 watts if a class D or G type amp.

If you have more than one amp then a 2 gage minimum positive wire and a 2 gage minimum negative wire (two wires total) from the battery back to the amps if a no more than a total of 1500 watts (like two 750 watt amps or three 500 watt amps, any combination that equals a total of 1500 watts for the system.

Over 1500 watts and your wires from the battery back must be 1/0 gage for both the positive and negative wires from the battery back.

You will also need for the multi amp systems a distribution block with fuses for each amp and a ground block. These need to one 2 or 1/0 gage in and have four gage outputs.

Power and Ground wiring is the most important thing to do right.

Also you need to pay attention to the RCA and speaker wire placement.

RCA wires must be run as far away from any other wires as possible...I suggest running them down the transmissin hump or middle of vehicle.

Power wires need to be away from all foot traffic and / or any thing that could be placed on top of them (like golf clubs)....I suggest running them down the same side of the vehicle the battery is on.

Speaker wires go on the other side of the car, but can be run no closer than 1 foot from the RCA's (all right speaker wires to the right side of the RCA's one foot away and all the left speakers to the right side of the RCA's one foot away).
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Bubba_Hemi
 
 Posted: 09-17-2005, 04:12 AM
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Post #8

I knew you ran the power wire away from the others... but didn't realize (and therefore never had) run the RCAs seperate from the speaker wire. I'll be sure to do that when I put my new system in.

I'm planning on running these two amps:
MA Audio HK-2000D RMS Power @ 14.4V
750W @ 4 Ohm
1000W @ 2 Ohm
1500W @ 1 Ohm

MA Audio HK-598
4 x 200W RMS @ 4 Ohm Stereo
4 x 400W RMS @ 2 Ohm Stereo
2 x 800W RMS @ 4 Ohm Mono

The HK-598 says on their site it's an 800W amp... what's the HK-2000D? 2000W? So I need to run an 0G power wire from the battery back to the CAP as well as a ground? But from there to each amp a 4G will sufice? Does the Power and Ground wire need to be run seperatly, or can they run parallel to each other from the battery to the CAP?

While I have no doubt that's the best way to run everything... how much will the system suffer running only a 4G from the battery to the CAP and grounding the system to the frame or other solid ground back there? Also, with running the RCAs along with the speaker wire.
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Dracos
 
 Posted: 09-18-2005, 05:23 AM
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Post #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba_Hemi
I knew you ran the power wire away from the others... but didn't realize (and therefore never had) run the RCAs seperate from the speaker wire. I'll be sure to do that when I put my new system in.

I'm planning on running these two amps:
MA Audio HK-2000D RMS Power @ 14.4V
750W @ 4 Ohm
1000W @ 2 Ohm
1500W @ 1 Ohm

MA Audio HK-598
4 x 200W RMS @ 4 Ohm Stereo
4 x 400W RMS @ 2 Ohm Stereo
2 x 800W RMS @ 4 Ohm Mono
Your total rated system power is 3100 watts, always use the amps max wattage rating to figure out total system power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba_Hemi
The HK-598 says on their site it's an 800W amp... what's the HK-2000D? 2000W? So I need to run an 0G power wire from the battery back to the CAP as well as a ground?
The HK-2000D will have peaks of 2000 watts, but RMS is 1500 watts, we only need to worry about the RMS ratings as peak ratings are only for an extremly short period of time.

1/0 gage wire is what you need, but the cap can be connected to the ground block and power distribution block with 4 gage as long as the wires are no longer the 2 feet for the cap and as close to the Sub-Woofer amp as possible....rule I use for cap size is 1 farad per 1000 watts, and stay away from the new "Carbon Cap's" as they have too high of an ESR rating to be any good. You want a Cap that has at least a 25V rating, is good for 105 degree C, and has as low of a ESR number as possible (good ones have an ESR of 0.001 Ohms).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba_Hemi
But from there to each amp a 4G will sufice?
Yes, each amp has its own 4 gage power and ground wires going to the ground block and power distribution block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba_Hemi
Does the Power and Ground wire need to be run seperatly, or can they run parallel to each other from the battery to the CAP?
Parallel is fine, I tape then together to make running them easier. You will need two fire wall grommets; I use a pair of 89 Toyota truck PVC grommets, they have a slight angle for the wires to go through that makes it easier to keep the wires close to the firewall / floor boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba_Hemi
While I have no doubt that's the best way to run everything... how much will the system suffer running only a 4G from the battery to the CAP and grounding the system to the frame or other solid ground back there? Also, with running the RCAs along with the speaker wire.
I will answer the RCA question first.

Speaker wires are a higher voltage and current signal as the Rica's signal, but the speaker wires signal is slightly delayed or "out of phase" with the RCA wires (we are talking Milli seconds of delay here, 1 / 1000th of a second = 1 Milli second, the surround delay time for rear channel outputs of a true 5.1 system are only 15 Milli seconds, so this may not be easily heard but is there and leads to listener fatigue). This can cause a type of "echo distortion" in the RCA signal....it will sound real bad if this "distortion" is introduced close to the head unit as the wire length is longer and the signal take more time to arrive to the amps.

Wonder what I mean by "Listener Fatigue". If you have ever heard a system that sounded good for a song or two when you first heard it, then you get to use the system for a trip and after 30 minutes of driving you do not want to listen anymore but don't know why.......that is listener fatigue. The sound is not quit right and makes your brain work too hard to figure out what you are hearing. When your brain gets tired of dealing with this sound it makes you want to turn it off.

Now to your question about the amount the system will suffer from poor power and ground wiring.

The current the amps need to run is supplied by the power wire, and ground ground placement is just as important.

The reasons are listed below to use "this way" of wiring an audio system.

1. Power wire (and ground wire) size needs to be as big of a gage as possible, think of the wire (s) as a hose.....if you use a small hose to get water out of a bucket it will take a long time to drain the water, but a large hose will allow more water to pass and drain the water out faster.

Now think of water as Current.....the amps need as much current as they can get to deliver the power you need to run the system.....bigger wire = more current available.

2. Running a ground wire from the battery back allows the audio system to have its own ground path.

This will eliminate any noises created by the vehicles electrical system. Brake lights, rear window defrosters, fuel pumps, and fans all can cause clicks or pops in the system when turned off or on as this noise is transmitted by the chassis ground the factory used.

Also, every ground the systems components need should be hooked up to the ground block, all +12 V power connections should be run from the power distribution block as well, switched or accessory wire should be run through a relay triggered by a wire that only has +12 V when the key is in the on or run position). This will isolate all grounds and power connections from the vehicle and will eliminate any noises the system may have....you will never have to use a "noise filter" (band aid at best solution) if you wire a system in this manner.

3.
It makes it easier to wire the system up, you run all new wires and you will not have to search for the pink with purple stripe wire that runs the accessory lead for the headunit, or figure out witch green wire is the positive left front speaker wire.......you put them in and know this wire is for what ever it needs to be run too.....

One other thing that should be done to help the audio system as well as the vehicles electrical system.....run a 4 gage ground wire from the engine block block to the battery, run a 4 gage wire from the alternators output to the battery, and run another 4 gage wire from the battery to the frame or good clean chassis area.

This will allow the alternator to supply more charging current to the battery and allow the vehicle to have better current to run its electrical system.

This all sounds complicated, but it really is not as hard as it sounds to do, doing this part right is the difference between a system that sounds good loud or soft as opposed to a system that sounds good low but clips and sounds nasty when pushed hard.
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Last edited by Dracos : 09-18-2005 at 05:35 AM.
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Bubba_Hemi
 
 Posted: 09-18-2005, 07:05 AM
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Post #10

Wow, that was a lot of reading... but thanks for all the info. Looks like I'll be running a little more (and bigger) wireing then I was originaly planning, but it'll be worth it.

Now I've just gotta figure out how I'm gonna hide those two fat wires running down the door sill.

Also, I've got a CAP I bought awhile back... when I was planning on the system to put into my truck. Going by the stats you mentioned a good one to be, I doubt I got one... but I'll look at what it is tomorrow and post here as well as look it up to see what I can find out about it.

Something else... any idea what the fuses are on those amps? I was looking at getting Stinger Audio's 150 amp circuit breaker, but I'm not sure if that'd be too much or not enough.

Oh, you mentioned a couple times about a ground block and distribution block... I'm pretty sure the CAP I currently have has that in it... that will suffice won't it?

I'm also going to have to rethink my battery terminals... I originally planned on a 1- 0G 1- 4G and 2- 8G for positive and a 2- 8G for the negative. Now I've got a couple others for each to look at... depending on the battery, which is another question. There's not a lot of room in this thing (Strat) obviously, so which, Red or Yellow Top or even another battery, would be best?

Thanks for the help Dracos
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Bubba_Hemi
 
  Cool  Posted: 09-18-2005, 05:24 PM
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Post #11

K, so I just went and grabbed my CAP and took a couple pictures of it. It's a Lightning Audio 40 Farad CAP- SCC40. Doesn't look like it fits the specs you mentioned of being a good CAP... and it doesn't list it as having a 1/0G inputs on it. Guess I'll be needing another CAP.

http://www.lightningaudio.com/2004/p...asp?prodID=806
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lightning Audio CAP 01.jpg (194.4 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Lightning Audio CAP 02.jpg (137.9 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Lightning Audio CAP 03.jpg (143.0 KB, 2 views)
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Dracos
 
 Posted: 09-19-2005, 02:28 AM
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Post #12

8 milliohms.....thats horrible....sorry to say, but it could be sold to someone on e-bay that has no clue....

2 fat wires can be run under the carpet close to the door without too much trouble...

Get a EXIDE Orbital Battery, run the car off the top posts and the system off of its GM type screw posts......easier to wire when you have both types. It looks like a Optima but is black and has better plates for more current...a better battery all around

Optimas do not last as long as they should, so I do not recommend them..

I have no idea what the fuse ratings are.....but you may be able to find out from the manufactures web site
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Bubba_Hemi
 
 Posted: 09-19-2005, 03:48 AM
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Post #13

Yea, I was hoping to get a battery that has top and side post... will make it a lot easier with not just wiring the system, but not having to worry about the connections as they are stock.

So, the CAP above is 8 miliohms... that's .008 compared to the .001 that you said is good? Looked on eBay, and I found a couple Stinger CAPs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-3-FARAD-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/STINGER-5-FARAD-...QQcmdZViewItem

They both looked like they fit right there with what you listed with the ESR and pretty close to the temp range as well as volt rating.

Also, is this battery the one you'd recommend? http://www.exideworld.com/products/a...bital_XCD.html
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Dracos
 
 Posted: 09-19-2005, 12:00 PM
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Post #14

The Stinger 5 Farad Cap is real good, and yes thats the battery
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Bubba_Hemi
 
 Posted: 09-19-2005, 03:07 PM
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Post #15

K, now I've got two more things added to my shopping list... thanks Dracos (not meant sarcastically).
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