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crxess
 
  Help - v10 No Spark - Posted: 09-05-2005, 07:39 PM
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Post #1

I just replaced my engine with a 96k salvage motor. I cannot get it to start and it looks to be a no spark problem.

My truck is a '96 3500 dually 4x4.
Salvage engine from '95 2500 2wd
In preping for sway, I changed the following on the salvage engine:
Crank position sensor(from old engine)
Cam position sensor(from old engine)
Intake Manifold and TB(from old engine)
Coil pack(fom old engine)
Exhaust manifolds(from old engine)
New oil filter
New oil
New oil pressure switch
Thermost and housing with switches(from old engine)

Basicly all the senders and sensors are from the original which was running when pulled.

Any ideas what I might have missed that would cause a no start, no fire?
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98QuadCabV10
 
 Posted: 09-05-2005, 10:21 PM
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Post #2

Check to see if you are getting power to the coil pack and a signal from the cam and crank sensors to the coil. Did you change the computer? Check all of your connections. It only takes 1 wire to screw everything up and it's a pain to find that 1 wire.
Let me know what you find.
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1998 Ram Quad Cab 2500 Short Bed V10 4x4
C.A.I.
Headers.
SCT Tuner
3" SRB Lift
Fast Man TB
GM Push Rods
2" Leveling Kit
1.7 Roller Rockers
Exhaust: No cats, Flowmaster 50
Best Runs
60': 2.27
1/8th: 10.23 @ 68.56 MPH
1/4: 15.93 @ 85.7 MPH
0-60: 7.9sec

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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-05-2005, 10:34 PM
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Post #3

Did not change computer. The engine came with its '95 harness. I stripped it off along with the EGR setup and installed the '96 wiring. Never disconnected from PCM and had battery disconnected from begining of change to end.
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98QuadCabV10
 
 Posted: 09-05-2005, 10:47 PM
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Post #4

Did you check to see if it had spark or are you just assuming it doesn't?
Make sure you are getting a signal to the coil. If not follow it back to where you are.
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1998 Ram Quad Cab 2500 Short Bed V10 4x4
C.A.I.
Headers.
SCT Tuner
3" SRB Lift
Fast Man TB
GM Push Rods
2" Leveling Kit
1.7 Roller Rockers
Exhaust: No cats, Flowmaster 50
Best Runs
60': 2.27
1/8th: 10.23 @ 68.56 MPH
1/4: 15.93 @ 85.7 MPH
0-60: 7.9sec

V10 Ram Club #1

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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-06-2005, 08:07 AM
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Post #5

Quote:
Did you check to see if it had spark or are you just assuming it doesn't?
Pulled one wire at coil to test. Got nothing. Will read for power and signal pulses this evening with DVOM.

Question:
Shouldn't the oil pressure light go out when cranking? Or is rotation to slow for the rotory pump to prime?
I can't trust the guage. The (new) sending unit reads 20psi when the key is turned on.

Last edited by crxess : 09-06-2005 at 08:35 AM.
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98QuadCabV10
 
 Posted: 09-06-2005, 07:09 PM
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Post #6

I figured you checked for spark just had to make sure.
It usually doesn't. The engine needs more rpm to get the oil pressure up.
__________________
1998 Ram Quad Cab 2500 Short Bed V10 4x4
C.A.I.
Headers.
SCT Tuner
3" SRB Lift
Fast Man TB
GM Push Rods
2" Leveling Kit
1.7 Roller Rockers
Exhaust: No cats, Flowmaster 50
Best Runs
60': 2.27
1/8th: 10.23 @ 68.56 MPH
1/4: 15.93 @ 85.7 MPH
0-60: 7.9sec

V10 Ram Club #1

Click For Info

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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-06-2005, 07:24 PM
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Post #7

Quote:
No fuel sync (camshaft signal) detected during engine crank. No camshaft position sensor signal was received from the distributor. Problem with the distributor synchronization circuit.
Ran a few diagnostics.

Did the code trick. Check engine light flashed 12, 54, 55.
Disconnected battery neg to clear codes. Checked and received code 12, 55.
Cranked engine over for about 10 seconds. Rechecked codes. Received 12, 54, 55.

12= Battery Disconnect -
Quote:
Direct Battery input to PCM disconnected within last 50 ignition key-on cycles. Normal if battery has been disconnected, otherwise check battery power and ground connections.
54= No cam sync signal at PCM -
Quote:
No fuel sync (camshaft signal) detected during engine crank. No camshaft position sensor signal was received from the distributor. Problem with the distributor synchronization circuit.
55= End of message code.

So, the only code indicating a problem is 54.

I pulled the connector from the CMS and tested purple/white(+5v) to black/blue(ground) key on and got the proper 5v reading. 5.02v

I reconnected and tapped into black/blue(-) and brown/yellow(signal) Should read 0.3 to 5v as trigger passes sensor. Test Failed. Sensor never read more than 200mv.

Pulled and inspected the sensor but found nothing obvious. Place 1 finger into the opening and turned the engine with a hand ratched to verify cam trigger condition. Everything feels proper.

Cleaned the sensor up and tapped it in my palm a few times. Reinstalled and propmtly failed testing again.

Did an ohms reading on the brown/yellow from the plug to the test point. Reading correct, so the wiring is ok at that point.

O.K. it is pretty certian the Camshaft Position Sensor it defective though it worked perfect in the old motor. Hopefully there are no other issues to overcome.

Local parts houses all say 1 week to get a sensor. I will check with the dodge dealer before ordering in the morning.

Last edited by crxess : 09-06-2005 at 07:30 PM.
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98QuadCabV10
 
 Posted: 09-06-2005, 09:24 PM
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Post #8

Sounds like a bad cam sensor to me too. Maybe it got damaged when it was removed. Good job testing it. You could also try an ohm test on the cam sensor to see if it has an open or short. The dodge dealer might have it in stock but I bet it will cost a lot more.
Let me know what happens.
__________________
1998 Ram Quad Cab 2500 Short Bed V10 4x4
C.A.I.
Headers.
SCT Tuner
3" SRB Lift
Fast Man TB
GM Push Rods
2" Leveling Kit
1.7 Roller Rockers
Exhaust: No cats, Flowmaster 50
Best Runs
60': 2.27
1/8th: 10.23 @ 68.56 MPH
1/4: 15.93 @ 85.7 MPH
0-60: 7.9sec

V10 Ram Club #1

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v10sport
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 12:43 AM
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Post #9

Doesnt take much to screw up the sensors. Dealer had to put a new motoer in my truck at 18K, took it home and it died on the road. Crank sensor failure. Good luck with it
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2000 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab LB V10 with many many mods.

7500 pounds
1/8th 10.193
67MPH
1/4 16.024
84.01 MPH
05 610 CTD QC 4x4 Needs some mods
02 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4
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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 08:31 AM
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Post #10

This is getting Stupid!!

After all those test, and confirming that the sensor is not sending a signal, it is possibly still good.

I woke up in the middle of the night and realized something didn't make sense. So first thing this morning I went out and pulled the sensor again. I felt the firing ring on the camshaft, then went and found the one from my '96 motor.
They Are Totally DIFFERENT!!
'95 uses a ring with (4) small window notches
'96 uses a 1/2 large, 1/2 smaller ring design
No way the '96 cam sensor was going to send any kind of signal that the computer could make heads or tails of.

So now, instead of a simple 1 bolt sensor swap, I have to totally dismantle the front of the engine I just got installed. So much for the 7quarts of fresh oil and 4 gal. of antifreeze. Not to mention the Hours of work getting everything in just right.

With the 1hr of light after work, I'll be another 3-4 days getting this changed.........after the special order parts show up.

EDIT: And the good news, Timing Set will be here tomorrow. Guess I'll get things started this evening in anticipation.

Last edited by crxess : 09-07-2005 at 09:19 AM.
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Zeker
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 10:20 AM
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Post #11

Why not just change the sensor to one that is compatible with the '95 ring? Sure it means buying a new sensor, but it saves you tearing apart your motor and potentially damaging something else.

Zeke
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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 10:51 AM
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Post #12

I have the 95 sensor. It won't work because the '96 computer will not translate the data it recieves properly. The pulse signals are totally different.

Also '95 sensor works on 8v, '96 works on 5v.
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Zeker
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 02:38 PM
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Post #13

ARGH!! Pain in the butt. Well, you're this close now.... I know it's discouraging, but get at it and before you know it, you'll be done.
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bocephus
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 04:16 PM
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Post #14

Gone are the days of holley double pumpers, weber induction, dual points, and open headers....sigh !
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98QuadCabV10
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 07:23 PM
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Post #15

It's a pain when you have to tear anything apart that you just put togeather. Those V10s hold a lot of coolant. I have gone through 4 radiators which translates into a bunch of coolat especially since I couldn't save any of it.
I would have never thought about the rings on the camshaft would be different. Good thing you thought of that.
__________________
1998 Ram Quad Cab 2500 Short Bed V10 4x4
C.A.I.
Headers.
SCT Tuner
3" SRB Lift
Fast Man TB
GM Push Rods
2" Leveling Kit
1.7 Roller Rockers
Exhaust: No cats, Flowmaster 50
Best Runs
60': 2.27
1/8th: 10.23 @ 68.56 MPH
1/4: 15.93 @ 85.7 MPH
0-60: 7.9sec

V10 Ram Club #1

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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 07:54 PM
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Post #16

Got everything stripped and cleaned tonight. I doubt I can get it all back together tomorrow evening, but it should get close. Hopefully I'll be testing it out Saturday.

I will post a pic of the 2 rings in a day or so.
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bocephus
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 08:01 PM
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Post #17

Post a pic of the nice clean fluffy exhaust this thing better puff after all this work or I'll help you kill the guy who sold it to you !!...hehe
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98QuadCabV10
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 09:34 PM
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Post #18

What was wrong with the original engine that you're replacing?
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1998 Ram Quad Cab 2500 Short Bed V10 4x4
C.A.I.
Headers.
SCT Tuner
3" SRB Lift
Fast Man TB
GM Push Rods
2" Leveling Kit
1.7 Roller Rockers
Exhaust: No cats, Flowmaster 50
Best Runs
60': 2.27
1/8th: 10.23 @ 68.56 MPH
1/4: 15.93 @ 85.7 MPH
0-60: 7.9sec

V10 Ram Club #1

Click For Info

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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-07-2005, 10:04 PM
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Post #19

http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68319

A bad case of trusting quick oil change service centers.
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crxess
 
 Posted: 09-08-2005, 09:08 AM
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Post #20

It's going to be a long day. The timing set and gaskets were delivered around 9:30.
Unfortunately I have appointments scattered throughout the whole day.

To top it off, my brither-in-law calls to say he has tickets for me for Nascar at Richmond Saturday night.

Even if I get the truck finished, it has thrown me so far behind I can't even think about going.
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