Another '03 Hemi "Losing power / cutting out" case - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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#1 Old 07-05-2013, 12:20 PM
Jetmugg
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Another '03 Hemi "Losing power / cutting out" case

I have an '03 Ram 2500 2wd, 5.7L Hemi, which has recently joined the club of trucks experiencing sudden power loss while driving. I bought this truck new, and it currently has right at 77,000 miles.

The problem is intermittent, but seems most likely to occur as part of my morning commute (cooler temperatures, higher humidity)

So far, it has happened somewhere around 8 or 10 different times. On my morning commute, it most typically happens when entering an interstate. I might accelerate up to 55-60 mph or so, then the accelerator pedal will start to feel "soft", as if I can tell it's about to cut out. The truck will then be non-responsive to throttle input, and will typically "jerk" on and off the power.

After 15-20 seconds or so of this behavior, the driveability will return to normal.

So far, this has only happened within 10 minutes after a cold start-up of the truck.

I am not experiencing a Check Engine Light.

I know that this type of problem is far from uncommon, but I have not been able to find a definitive fix for it, either.

The only attempts at corrective action that I've taken have been to remove and clean the throttle body, and to replace the air temperature sensor located in the intake tubing (between the air filter and the throttle body).

I hesitate to take it to the dealer when there is no CEL, and the problem does not occur 100% of the time.

If there is a "most likely cause", I will be happy to spend some time replacing sensors.

As I said before, I know that plenty of other people have experienced this kind of problem, but I'm not aware of a reliable solution.

Any help would be appreciated.

Steve.
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#2 Old 07-05-2013, 12:54 PM
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is it fully up to operating temp when this happens ? I'm thinking clogged cat and/or bad pre-cat O2 sensors

My other truck is an R/T

2005 Hemi Ram Sport RC 2wd Yellow. 340RWHP, 350RWTQ
Comp 268 cam, P.I.E. Milled & Ported Heads with 2.02/1.65 Manley backcut valves, Compression bumped to 10.5:1, 6.1 Springs & Pushrods, Pacesetter Longtubes, 2800-Edge Convertor, Sonnax Line Pressure Booster, Diablo Tuned by P.I.E., Dual 3" Exhaust w/ Magnaflow X-Pipe Muffler, Taylor Shorties, Spindle & Flip 5/7 drop, Energy Suspension Urethane bushings F & R, SRT 20s, Cal-Tracs, Belltech Street Perfomance Shocks......this shit all started as an exhaust replacement/upgrade & new tires project. WTF !?

2002 CC Silver
2bbl M-1 w/large turtle
55 MM F&B TB
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Full Spintech 3" True Dual system w/gutted hi-flow cats & x-pipe
1.6 HS Roller Rockers
Powder Coated GSM Fabbed Aluminum Valve Covers
Comp Cam .544/.544, 235*/240*, 114 LSA
2.02/1.65 EQ Ported Magnum Iron Heads
Smith Bros. Hardened 7.00" pushrods
B&G Chrysler M-1 Flash
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PowerTrax Locker
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Full Hotchkis TVS Suspension Upgrade. featuring; new coils, leafs & sways.
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#3 Old 07-05-2013, 12:56 PM
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Add the ground wire from either battery or fender to the bolt on the throttle body, Use a minimum of 22 awg wire. sounds like a ground issue.

2012 Challenger SXT+ 220ci 5 speed, blackberry pearl, FM xxMM, diablo in-tune I1000, Carbon fiber pedal covers, 11% tint

1999 Durango SLT+ leather, 360ci 4x4, hughes plenum rebuild, superchips 3865, tow pkg, 3.55 LSD, rear tail light guard, K&N CAI, FM 50MM TB, crystal clear headlights, Torsion/shackle lift, Rancho RSX's, Pacesetter headers, dual trans & oil temp a-pillar pod, chrome deep trans pan, drilled & slotted rotors, 10 disc cd changer.

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#4 Old 07-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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Thanks guys. I really need to get this problem solved. When it loses power, it loses virtually ALL power, as in it's unsafe to drive.

An additional ground wire to the TB is easy enough. I suppose the OEM design must ground the TB through the TB servo harness? Are there known issues with these servos having weak grounds?

As far as the 02 sensors, that seems like it could be a possibility, although I would hope that a bad 02 sensor would throw a code.

With respect to the catalytic converter, I don't see how a bad cat could cause an intermittent problem which quickly and suddenly clears up.

Steve.
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#5 Old 07-05-2013, 02:37 PM
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clogged cats can act like that until they fully plug up, the you're done. Also, a bad O2 can cause issues like this long before it throws a code. They are wear items and generally should be changed @ 60K miles.

My other truck is an R/T

2005 Hemi Ram Sport RC 2wd Yellow. 340RWHP, 350RWTQ
Comp 268 cam, P.I.E. Milled & Ported Heads with 2.02/1.65 Manley backcut valves, Compression bumped to 10.5:1, 6.1 Springs & Pushrods, Pacesetter Longtubes, 2800-Edge Convertor, Sonnax Line Pressure Booster, Diablo Tuned by P.I.E., Dual 3" Exhaust w/ Magnaflow X-Pipe Muffler, Taylor Shorties, Spindle & Flip 5/7 drop, Energy Suspension Urethane bushings F & R, SRT 20s, Cal-Tracs, Belltech Street Perfomance Shocks......this shit all started as an exhaust replacement/upgrade & new tires project. WTF !?

2002 CC Silver
2bbl M-1 w/large turtle
55 MM F&B TB
Spintech Headers
Full Spintech 3" True Dual system w/gutted hi-flow cats & x-pipe
1.6 HS Roller Rockers
Powder Coated GSM Fabbed Aluminum Valve Covers
Comp Cam .544/.544, 235*/240*, 114 LSA
2.02/1.65 EQ Ported Magnum Iron Heads
Smith Bros. Hardened 7.00" pushrods
B&G Chrysler M-1 Flash
Cal-Tracs
PowerTrax Locker
MSD 6A w/11mm Taylors & NGK 4291s
Full Custom Interior....Featuring SRT4 seats, custom stitching/embroidery on all seating surfaces & a Pistol Grip Hurst 1/4 Stick II shifter
IAT & MAP relocation mods
Full Hotchkis TVS Suspension Upgrade. featuring; new coils, leafs & sways.
Nitto 450s 275/50/17
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#6 Old 07-06-2013, 05:32 AM
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The accelerator pedal has a cable connected to the Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS), the APPS then develops a 0-5vdc signal to the PCM which in turn with all the other input signals sends a throttle signal to the ECT which is the throttle Body stepper motor. If you are physically feeling a change in the gas pedal then there is something wrong with the cable/APPS.

Greg
2003 RCSB SXT-Hemi - OEM Durango rims/275/60-18 tires, AeroForce-w/wideband, Trans LP gage, PPP Track Warrior, 6.1 dual coil ignition, 05 fuel pump, w/external reg, K&N -77 CAI, Fastman TB, 20% U/D, eFan, TCI FastGate shifter, AutoMeter Shiftlite, 180 thermostat, TMR, Sonnax, 2500HD OEM Trans Cooler, 2800 stall Edge Converter, DTT 4:10, LT's, Magnaflow SI/DO, duals cats, Stage III valve body, Mcgaughys 3/6 spindle kit, Caltracs traction bars, Aeon springs for bump stops Frt/Rear, 04 Laramie leather SLT 10 way seat and SLT leather steering wheel, CD/radio, stand alone OEM foglights, billet grille inserts, painted cowl (shaved) and upper bumper cover, Shaved tailgate w/EZdown, Shaved Antenna, Amplified hidden antenna, sliding rear window, welded steel Roll Pan, Hidden hitch, Sport mirrors, Painted Front bumper, Fiberglass tonneau cover, OEM bed liner, Triple gage pillar, billet gas door, de-badged, tint strip. With 89' D250 Diesel support vehicle.
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#7 Old 07-06-2013, 11:07 PM
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Does it ever act like its a manual trans like it wants to choke down? Mines done that a few times b4. Actually cut off chillin at a stop light one time. That was b4 my cam install too. My old service manager told me that in 03-4 timeframe, there was a line around the dealership for a re-flash of the Rams. Ive never had mine flashed but it hasn't done that in a couple years. And even b4 that it was only 6or so times in about a 3-4yr period.

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#8 Old 07-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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Not a Hemi...

but sounds familiar to what I have.. see here:
http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385426
tonight I went to pick up a lawn mower. Truck behaved till I got back in our driveway.. Was using "Torque" on my phone to watch the O2 sensors since after this issue started eventually a high v. bank 1 sensor 1 code was thrown.. which I cleared t o"watch it"...

In driveway bank 1 sensor one pegged at high and didn't oscillate anymore..
Still no code but )2 bank 1 sensor 2 high voltage is now "pending"


Cause or effect??? Can an O2 sensor flood an engine.. which is what seems to be happening in these cases..

for later IF it is indeed a clogged CAT @40k miles..


http://www.*************/f61/cat_clo...22/index2.html

Quote:
Cut it open and hallow it out. Weld it back shut. Make sure the welds are facing up towards the truck so no one can see it
Quote:
sledge hammer, 2' punch, and a guy drunk enough or stupid enough to hold it up while I bash it with the sledge oughta do it
Quote:
Or you can try the waterhose trick, seen it happen on a 98 RAM. Beat on the cat till you get some flow while idling, rev the truck up till they're good and hot then jam a water hose up there full blast. You should here the popping and cracking....... Then crank the truck back up and blow them out, this may take a few tries but it worked for us......

Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-07-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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#9 Old 07-08-2013, 01:44 AM
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O2s supply the main input to the PCM to control fuel settings. They are very heat sensitive in that they only operate in a somewhat narrow band of temperature. Flooding and dumping fuel into the cats will kill them fairly quickly. This sounds like a bad wire, bad connection and/or a bad O2s.

Greg
2003 RCSB SXT-Hemi - OEM Durango rims/275/60-18 tires, AeroForce-w/wideband, Trans LP gage, PPP Track Warrior, 6.1 dual coil ignition, 05 fuel pump, w/external reg, K&N -77 CAI, Fastman TB, 20% U/D, eFan, TCI FastGate shifter, AutoMeter Shiftlite, 180 thermostat, TMR, Sonnax, 2500HD OEM Trans Cooler, 2800 stall Edge Converter, DTT 4:10, LT's, Magnaflow SI/DO, duals cats, Stage III valve body, Mcgaughys 3/6 spindle kit, Caltracs traction bars, Aeon springs for bump stops Frt/Rear, 04 Laramie leather SLT 10 way seat and SLT leather steering wheel, CD/radio, stand alone OEM foglights, billet grille inserts, painted cowl (shaved) and upper bumper cover, Shaved tailgate w/EZdown, Shaved Antenna, Amplified hidden antenna, sliding rear window, welded steel Roll Pan, Hidden hitch, Sport mirrors, Painted Front bumper, Fiberglass tonneau cover, OEM bed liner, Triple gage pillar, billet gas door, de-badged, tint strip. With 89' D250 Diesel support vehicle.
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#10 Old 07-08-2013, 04:37 PM
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What's maddening is that there have been plenty of similar cases of Ram trucks losing power, stalling, etc, but there does not seem to be a reliable solution.

I'm dropping it off at the dealer tonight, and will ask them to update all software and apply any TSB fixes before doing additional problem solving.

I am the one and only owner of this truck, which has 75,xxx miles now. It's been used, but not abused. These "ghost" problems are extremely frustrating.

Steve.
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#11 Old 07-08-2013, 04:40 PM
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It has never died at a stop or in traffic, but the sudden power loss on the interstate is extremely dangerous. Twice within the last week, I have been forced to turn on my hazard lights while merging onto the interstate, as I simply had no power to accelerate.

The mechanical feel of the pedal doesn't change, only the fact that the engine will not respond to throttle input changes.

Steve.
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#12 Old 07-09-2013, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jetmugg View Post
These "ghost" problems are extremely frustrating.

Steve.
now that is ironic.. Just tonight I was thinking my truck was "haunted".. well had to use it today and behaved well up until my return trip from the lumber store.. Started it's dogging/flat/kil/ trick. I'd pull over ,stop it and then restart.. Usually worked for a mile or 2. This time no luck.. Every stop was a nightmare. Finally turned off onto a side street. Shut it off and waited 5-10 min.. Listened to some really funny little ticking noises.. Like rain drops inside the engine.. Well started it up and drove fine for 5 more miles.. hung some drywall and drove another 5 miles home. Got in the driveway and started to play w/ "torque" program.. watching the )2 sensors.. post CAT had flat lined at 1V... pre-cat was doing its usual up and down swing.. I was getting bored watching nothing and the truck was idling fine in park. Decided to check out the help menu.. sure enough as soon as I left the O2 graph the engine started losing idol.. heading to stalling.. Oddly it never made it there and then just regained composure.. Of course fumbling around w/ the phone I never did see if I could at least guess if it was the O2 sensor or if the O2 sensor just followed the event.. Then the weirdest thing happened, my heater/ac blower motor just quit.. No speeds what so ever... AC was off at the time.. Shut the truck off and started it again.. Blower was now working.. Haunted I tell you...
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#13 Old 07-09-2013, 06:00 AM
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Grounding issue, the tinkking noise is coming from I would guess a seriously over heated cat the other poster is experiencing limp mode.

Greg
2003 RCSB SXT-Hemi - OEM Durango rims/275/60-18 tires, AeroForce-w/wideband, Trans LP gage, PPP Track Warrior, 6.1 dual coil ignition, 05 fuel pump, w/external reg, K&N -77 CAI, Fastman TB, 20% U/D, eFan, TCI FastGate shifter, AutoMeter Shiftlite, 180 thermostat, TMR, Sonnax, 2500HD OEM Trans Cooler, 2800 stall Edge Converter, DTT 4:10, LT's, Magnaflow SI/DO, duals cats, Stage III valve body, Mcgaughys 3/6 spindle kit, Caltracs traction bars, Aeon springs for bump stops Frt/Rear, 04 Laramie leather SLT 10 way seat and SLT leather steering wheel, CD/radio, stand alone OEM foglights, billet grille inserts, painted cowl (shaved) and upper bumper cover, Shaved tailgate w/EZdown, Shaved Antenna, Amplified hidden antenna, sliding rear window, welded steel Roll Pan, Hidden hitch, Sport mirrors, Painted Front bumper, Fiberglass tonneau cover, OEM bed liner, Triple gage pillar, billet gas door, de-badged, tint strip. With 89' D250 Diesel support vehicle.
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#14 Old 07-09-2013, 10:22 AM
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Excellent discussion here! I'm sold on the idea of adding an additional ground from the TB to the engine to the chassis. Even if it doesn't fix the problem, it can't hurt.

With respect to the Limp Mode, are you saying that you think my issue (the original poster) is a Limp Mode problem, or that Jeffkrol's truck is going into Limp Mode?

The Torque app for Android looks like a great diagnostic tool. Unfortunately, in this case, I'm an iPhone user. I just started researching iPhone apps for the same kind of diagnostics. Any recommendations for iPhone?

Steve.
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#15 Old 07-09-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetmugg View Post
Excellent discussion here! I'm sold on the idea of adding an additional ground from the TB to the engine to the chassis. Even if it doesn't fix the problem, it can't hurt.

With respect to the Limp Mode, are you saying that you think my issue (the original poster) is a Limp Mode problem, or that Jeffkrol's truck is going into Limp Mode?

The Torque app for Android looks like a great diagnostic tool. Unfortunately, in this case, I'm an iPhone user. I just started researching iPhone apps for the same kind of diagnostics. Any recommendations for iPhone?

Steve.
Jetmugg, yours sounds like it is going into Limp mode. Have you gotten any codes at all?

Greg
2003 RCSB SXT-Hemi - OEM Durango rims/275/60-18 tires, AeroForce-w/wideband, Trans LP gage, PPP Track Warrior, 6.1 dual coil ignition, 05 fuel pump, w/external reg, K&N -77 CAI, Fastman TB, 20% U/D, eFan, TCI FastGate shifter, AutoMeter Shiftlite, 180 thermostat, TMR, Sonnax, 2500HD OEM Trans Cooler, 2800 stall Edge Converter, DTT 4:10, LT's, Magnaflow SI/DO, duals cats, Stage III valve body, Mcgaughys 3/6 spindle kit, Caltracs traction bars, Aeon springs for bump stops Frt/Rear, 04 Laramie leather SLT 10 way seat and SLT leather steering wheel, CD/radio, stand alone OEM foglights, billet grille inserts, painted cowl (shaved) and upper bumper cover, Shaved tailgate w/EZdown, Shaved Antenna, Amplified hidden antenna, sliding rear window, welded steel Roll Pan, Hidden hitch, Sport mirrors, Painted Front bumper, Fiberglass tonneau cover, OEM bed liner, Triple gage pillar, billet gas door, de-badged, tint strip. With 89' D250 Diesel support vehicle.
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#16 Old 07-09-2013, 07:31 PM
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I have not gotten any codes. I took it to the dealer and had them apply 2 flash updates, one for the PCM, and one for the TCM.

Here's an oddball thought, related to a problem I had years ago. My wife once had a key made for this truck, and when she would use her key, the truck would stumble, barely idle, basically be undrivable. I didn't believe her at first, but when I tried the key she had made, sure enough, the truck drove like crap.

We had another key made, and the problem went away.

Is there a way for the ignition key to be triggering a limp mode? My everyday key is the original from December of 2002.

If this happens again, I think I'm going to try using "her" key.

Steve.
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#17 Old 07-09-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetmugg View Post
I have not gotten any codes. I took it to the dealer and had them apply 2 flash updates, one for the PCM, and one for the TCM.

Here's an oddball thought, related to a problem I had years ago. My wife once had a key made for this truck, and when she would use her key, the truck would stumble, barely idle, basically be undrivable. I didn't believe her at first, but when I tried the key she had made, sure enough, the truck drove like crap.

We had another key made, and the problem went away.

Is there a way for the ignition key to be triggering a limp mode? My everyday key is the original from December of 2002.

If this happens again, I think I'm going to try using "her" key.

Steve.
I have heard of keys not working, but not of the truck running poorly because of a key. Maybe someone knows about this happening.

Greg
2003 RCSB SXT-Hemi - OEM Durango rims/275/60-18 tires, AeroForce-w/wideband, Trans LP gage, PPP Track Warrior, 6.1 dual coil ignition, 05 fuel pump, w/external reg, K&N -77 CAI, Fastman TB, 20% U/D, eFan, TCI FastGate shifter, AutoMeter Shiftlite, 180 thermostat, TMR, Sonnax, 2500HD OEM Trans Cooler, 2800 stall Edge Converter, DTT 4:10, LT's, Magnaflow SI/DO, duals cats, Stage III valve body, Mcgaughys 3/6 spindle kit, Caltracs traction bars, Aeon springs for bump stops Frt/Rear, 04 Laramie leather SLT 10 way seat and SLT leather steering wheel, CD/radio, stand alone OEM foglights, billet grille inserts, painted cowl (shaved) and upper bumper cover, Shaved tailgate w/EZdown, Shaved Antenna, Amplified hidden antenna, sliding rear window, welded steel Roll Pan, Hidden hitch, Sport mirrors, Painted Front bumper, Fiberglass tonneau cover, OEM bed liner, Triple gage pillar, billet gas door, de-badged, tint strip. With 89' D250 Diesel support vehicle.
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#18 Old 07-10-2013, 08:02 AM
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It fell on its face again this morning while attempting to merge with interstate traffic. Drastic drop-off of power, then suddenly back on the power, accompanied by some "popping" out the exhaust. Still no codes. TB has been cleaned, intake air temp. sensor changed, brand new plugs, brand new plug wires, and computer flash updates are in effect.

I'll install a ground wire from TB to block and chassis tonight.
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#19 Old 07-10-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jetmugg View Post
It fell on its face again this morning while attempting to merge with interstate traffic. Drastic drop-off of power, then suddenly back on the power, accompanied by some "popping" out the exhaust. Still no codes. TB has been cleaned, intake air temp. sensor changed, brand new plugs, brand new plug wires, and computer flash updates are in effect.

I'll install a ground wire from TB to block and chassis tonight.
If the power dropped then came back it did not go into Limp mode. That would also explain why there are no codes. It's a electrical problem, hopefully the new ground wires will tell something.

Greg
2003 RCSB SXT-Hemi - OEM Durango rims/275/60-18 tires, AeroForce-w/wideband, Trans LP gage, PPP Track Warrior, 6.1 dual coil ignition, 05 fuel pump, w/external reg, K&N -77 CAI, Fastman TB, 20% U/D, eFan, TCI FastGate shifter, AutoMeter Shiftlite, 180 thermostat, TMR, Sonnax, 2500HD OEM Trans Cooler, 2800 stall Edge Converter, DTT 4:10, LT's, Magnaflow SI/DO, duals cats, Stage III valve body, Mcgaughys 3/6 spindle kit, Caltracs traction bars, Aeon springs for bump stops Frt/Rear, 04 Laramie leather SLT 10 way seat and SLT leather steering wheel, CD/radio, stand alone OEM foglights, billet grille inserts, painted cowl (shaved) and upper bumper cover, Shaved tailgate w/EZdown, Shaved Antenna, Amplified hidden antenna, sliding rear window, welded steel Roll Pan, Hidden hitch, Sport mirrors, Painted Front bumper, Fiberglass tonneau cover, OEM bed liner, Triple gage pillar, billet gas door, de-badged, tint strip. With 89' D250 Diesel support vehicle.
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#20 Old 07-10-2013, 08:59 AM
matthet
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popping from the exhaust is a pretty good indication you're dumping fuel. have you noticed mpg shifts? i know, with this being intermittent, it's probably not too noticeable. the pre cat sensor could very well be on the fritz. if you're merging, i'm assuming you're mid throttle gaining rpm. see if you can simulate this situation somewhere else. also, get under there and inspect the wires going to the sensor. go ahead and start soaking that senson in PB Blaster at night so if/when you have to change it, it doesn't give you fits trying to break it loose.
it sounds to me like an issue with the oxygen sensor seeing as how it repeats under a "load condition". temperature, rpm, exhaust velocities, all affect O2 sensor performance.

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