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156TYSON
 
  Engine cuts out on WOT - Posted: 11-15-2012, 05:58 PM
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Post #1

Ok so here's the deal, I have a 318 4bbl in a 88 plymouth caravelle(canadian version), when I am wide open throttle for more than 5-8 seconds the engine will cut right out like its starving for fuel.

The car has done this when i had the 2bbl carb on it aswell, I rebuilt the quadrajet and set floats at 3/8". the engine works strong for a stock 318 (65,000kms) but once 5-8(rough estimate, varies everytime) seconds are up she dies, I can let off the throttle and it will catch itself and run fine if driven easy.

-mopar preformance ignition -New fuel filter (3 prong filter, ones a return line?) -tried cleaning filter with no diffrence -float set at 3/8"- i even tried pinching off the "return line" with no diffrence.

Im thinking fuel pump? what do you guys think? I really wanna get this problem resolved because I just ordered a new cam and shift kit, going to suck if i cant even make a 1/8th mile pass with it lol
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97' dakota, sb, rc, 2wd, 360 mag, 5 speed, 3.91's posi, Comp cams 214/220, headers, duals, air gap dome, 650 holley, MP igniton

94' dakota, lb, rc, 3.9l 5 speed 4x4 -sold

88' Gran Fury/ Caravelle, 3.55's, 318, sum-6901 cam, 600 holley, ld4b dome, long tube headers, duals, trans-go shift kit, MP ignition
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maachine
 
 Posted: 11-15-2012, 06:11 PM
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Post #2

does it have problems starting?
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1987 Dodge W-150 "The Beast"
some sort of lift
33" AT's
LA 360 bored .030 over, EQ Magnum heads, Hooker Headers, true dual exhaust, Holley 4160 w/Truck Avenger parts, Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake, StreetFire ignition box & MSD coil
208 t-case/727A trans w/3.23 gears
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dodgensince74
 
 Posted: 11-15-2012, 07:01 PM
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Post #3

sounds like your running out of fuel, or you don't have your float set correctly. Have you checked fuel pressure/volume?
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156TYSON
 
 Posted: 11-15-2012, 08:00 PM
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Post #4

on cold starts it usally fires right up first whirl, except for today it was sitting for a few days and whirled over for a bit and had to pump carb a dozen times before it fired up.

I set the float in the carb at 3/8th of an inch (what is called for..) unless someone thinks thats too little? its a 1985 rochester quadrajet (750cfm version) but like i said it has done the same thing with the 2bbl carb that was on this motor before the 4bbl swap, so im not really thinking the float level is the problem.

I have not checked the fuel pressure or volume of fuel.
now some people say that your fuel filter has to be horizontal and the return line (on the fuel filter) in a vertical position is this true? (fuel filter is like a T) The filter is brand new.

I also got rid of the fuel filter in the carb, tomorrow Im going to take the filter off and turn the engine over to see how much flow, can i cut a valve stem off a rim and hoseclamp it in the fuel line and use a tire pressure gauge to find out the psi? lol I know it sounds stupid but i dont have much for high end tools here hah
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97' dakota, sb, rc, 2wd, 360 mag, 5 speed, 3.91's posi, Comp cams 214/220, headers, duals, air gap dome, 650 holley, MP igniton

94' dakota, lb, rc, 3.9l 5 speed 4x4 -sold

88' Gran Fury/ Caravelle, 3.55's, 318, sum-6901 cam, 600 holley, ld4b dome, long tube headers, duals, trans-go shift kit, MP ignition
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coastermeister
 
 Posted: 11-15-2012, 08:36 PM
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Post #5

When you have the filter off blow some air back toward the fuel tank (remove the fuel tank cap first). Could be your sock in the tank is clogged or partially clogged and starving the engine for fuel at high demand.
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'86 D150 Custom LWB, White, A/C, 318-2bbl, 727, 6050 GVWR, 9-1/4 3.21 Sure-Grip
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maachine
 
 Posted: 11-15-2012, 08:55 PM
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Post #6

Sniff your oil dipstick and see if it smells like gas. If so, then ya, your fuel pump is bad. The diaphragm has holes in it and allowing gas to enter the engine, thus mixing with oil.

Been drinking, thus using "thus" a lot and elaborating mechanical failures and repairs
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1987 Dodge W-150 "The Beast"
some sort of lift
33" AT's
LA 360 bored .030 over, EQ Magnum heads, Hooker Headers, true dual exhaust, Holley 4160 w/Truck Avenger parts, Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake, StreetFire ignition box & MSD coil
208 t-case/727A trans w/3.23 gears
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lunchbox1671
 
 Posted: 11-15-2012, 10:33 PM
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Post #7

buy a clear fuel filter so you can actually see what the fuel is doing and how dirty it is.

If the pump is bad, install an electric one with the correct pressure rated for your carb (my 4bbl Edelbrock is around 6psi)

WOT for 6-8 seconds is pretty demanding for an older stock vehicle...
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acton mike
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 05:04 AM
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Post #8

when you say that the engine cuts out:
does it shut off cleanly
or
does it lose power and then stop

does it re-fire cleanly or is it hard to re-start


a fuel system problem will cause the loss of power and stalling whereas a clean shut off would lead one to explore an electrical/ignition problem
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dodgensince74
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 06:51 AM
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Post #9

another thing to check is to make sure your choke spring is strong enough to keep the choke open at full throttle, it may be closing on you and then when you let off it allows air back in there.
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Super chips
Magnaflow S/i-D/o
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156TYSON
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 08:51 AM
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Post #10

The choke closing Theory is a good idea, but it used to cut out with the 2bbl carb, that carb had choke completley removed. that and i have manual choke on this carb and its pretty firmly shut!

When it cuts out with holding it wide open, it bogs, backfires through the carb (indicating a lean condition starving for fuel) engine kind of surges does not completly shut off. looses all power, if i let off the throttle it will stay running.

smelt my oil, I couldn't significantly smell any gas. though there is water or condensation on the dipstick.. theres not alot in the engine because the oil is still all black (yeah needs to be changed anyways) but all the way up the dipstick is a brown/ white milky colour.

I had an old chevy once, when the mechanical fuel pump went on that it instantly shut off no playing around just full on quit. so thats why im alittle hesitant to replace the fuel pump.

if anyone knows about the position of the fuel filter making a diffrence let me know! that and what the hose coming off the side of the filter leading to the tank is for exactly?
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97' dakota, sb, rc, 2wd, 360 mag, 5 speed, 3.91's posi, Comp cams 214/220, headers, duals, air gap dome, 650 holley, MP igniton

94' dakota, lb, rc, 3.9l 5 speed 4x4 -sold

88' Gran Fury/ Caravelle, 3.55's, 318, sum-6901 cam, 600 holley, ld4b dome, long tube headers, duals, trans-go shift kit, MP ignition
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coastermeister
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 10:48 AM
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Post #11

Backfiring through the carb! Now we're getting somewhere. How long since the dizzy cap and rotor were replaced? Have you verified the timing setting? Sounds like an ignition system issue one way or the other.
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'86 D150 Custom LWB, White, A/C, 318-2bbl, 727, 6050 GVWR, 9-1/4 3.21 Sure-Grip
All Heavy Duty Options- 114 amp alternator, big radiator, transmission cooler, original owner, everything works!
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156TYSON
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 01:29 PM
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Post #12

has the mopar preformance ignition kit, intitial timing is set at 10 btdc total timing is 30 btdc (cant set my total timing any higher beacuse it advances too early due to the weak springs in the distributor) vacuum advance is hooked up to ported vacuum, everything is fairly new. it will backfire through the carb only when it starves for fuel when the engine cuts out.

I removed the fuel line off the fuel pump and turned it over, appeared to have decent flow, fuel filter can be blown through easily, I also put the filter horizontal with the return line set vertically. i just gotta go out and drive it to see if it that made a diffrence..
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97' dakota, sb, rc, 2wd, 360 mag, 5 speed, 3.91's posi, Comp cams 214/220, headers, duals, air gap dome, 650 holley, MP igniton

94' dakota, lb, rc, 3.9l 5 speed 4x4 -sold

88' Gran Fury/ Caravelle, 3.55's, 318, sum-6901 cam, 600 holley, ld4b dome, long tube headers, duals, trans-go shift kit, MP ignition
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156TYSON
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 05:42 PM
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Post #13

well, took it for a drive around town tonite and what do you know she quits on the biggest hill in town! 2 cars behind me and 20 pumps of gas later with the choke on she finally fires up! managed to barley make it home with it stalling pulling in my driveway.

I came to the conclusion that the fuel pump is bad. going to pick one up tomorrow and see where that takes me
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97' dakota, sb, rc, 2wd, 360 mag, 5 speed, 3.91's posi, Comp cams 214/220, headers, duals, air gap dome, 650 holley, MP igniton

94' dakota, lb, rc, 3.9l 5 speed 4x4 -sold

88' Gran Fury/ Caravelle, 3.55's, 318, sum-6901 cam, 600 holley, ld4b dome, long tube headers, duals, trans-go shift kit, MP ignition
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maachine
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 06:21 PM
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Post #14

That's my guess. If its not the fuel pump then im gonna say vacuum leak
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1987 Dodge W-150 "The Beast"
some sort of lift
33" AT's
LA 360 bored .030 over, EQ Magnum heads, Hooker Headers, true dual exhaust, Holley 4160 w/Truck Avenger parts, Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake, StreetFire ignition box & MSD coil
208 t-case/727A trans w/3.23 gears
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dodgensince74
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 06:48 PM
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Post #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by 156TYSON View Post
theres not alot in the engine because the oil is still all black (yeah needs to be changed anyways) but all the way up the dipstick is a brown/ white milky colour.

still leaning toward a bad fuel pump but this part would worry me, there shouldn't be any moisture in the crank case, if your oil is thinned out, your lifters could be collapsing at high rpms. Keep the info coming.
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01 1500 5.9, Q/C, L/B, 4X4
Tanue cover
Super chips
Magnaflow S/i-D/o
K&N cai
Eagle alloy 102's
BFG LT285/75r16 A/T's
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maachine
 
 Posted: 11-16-2012, 08:11 PM
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Post #16

Brown white milky usually means water oil mix. Not a good sign at all. Bad head gaskets possibly.
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1987 Dodge W-150 "The Beast"
some sort of lift
33" AT's
LA 360 bored .030 over, EQ Magnum heads, Hooker Headers, true dual exhaust, Holley 4160 w/Truck Avenger parts, Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake, StreetFire ignition box & MSD coil
208 t-case/727A trans w/3.23 gears
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156TYSON
 
 Posted: 11-17-2012, 02:53 PM
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Post #17

well I put a diffrent fuel pump on it she definatly works much better now! I had one problem though it quit the exact same way it did lastnight. and it only started quiting since i had swithched the 3 prong fuel filter to a horizontal position. so i just pinched off the return line and drove home now it seems to be working fine.

I never take the car over 5-5200 rpm. and yeah im thinking its antifreeze, i should compression check the engine to be sure its not headgaskets. or it could be the timing chain cover gasket is another idea im thinking.
the intake gaskets are new and i have 4000kms on the engine since the manifold was put on without any problems so i dont think the manifold is warped, it was tourqued to spec.
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97' dakota, sb, rc, 2wd, 360 mag, 5 speed, 3.91's posi, Comp cams 214/220, headers, duals, air gap dome, 650 holley, MP igniton

94' dakota, lb, rc, 3.9l 5 speed 4x4 -sold

88' Gran Fury/ Caravelle, 3.55's, 318, sum-6901 cam, 600 holley, ld4b dome, long tube headers, duals, trans-go shift kit, MP ignition
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maachine
 
 Posted: 11-17-2012, 03:16 PM
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Post #18

Ya my fuel filter is horizontal too. Sounds like you got it worked out
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1987 Dodge W-150 "The Beast"
some sort of lift
33" AT's
LA 360 bored .030 over, EQ Magnum heads, Hooker Headers, true dual exhaust, Holley 4160 w/Truck Avenger parts, Edelbrock Performer dual plane intake, StreetFire ignition box & MSD coil
208 t-case/727A trans w/3.23 gears
View Public ProfileSend a private message to %1$sSend email to %1$sFind all posts by %1$sAdd %1$s to Your Buddy List Reply Reply With Quote
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