Rough in gear idle - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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#1 Old 08-05-2012, 09:47 PM
the_Big_dill
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Rough in gear idle

Hey all,

I recently changed my alternator, belt, idler & tensioner pulley, the car runs as quiet as new while in "park" or at a higher speed in "drive".

However when i put it into drive, reverse, low or 3, it starts sounding rough with consistent vibration patterns. What is causing that noise and how would i go about dealing with it?

Cheers,

Phil.

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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#2 Old 08-06-2012, 01:05 AM
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Just to verify, the car only started the vibration after you switched out the alternator and other stuff?
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#3 Old 08-06-2012, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge_duh View Post
Just to verify, the car only started the vibration after you switched out the alternator and other stuff?
good call, and NO, that rough in gear idling was there before anything was changed in the van.

Also, are the instrument cluster lights hooked up in series? As i took one out, now the gas and the lower revs are not lit up...

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.

Last edited by the_Big_dill; 08-06-2012 at 08:36 AM.
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#4 Old 08-06-2012, 09:02 AM
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Could possibly be a bad motor mount, or a dirty throttle body when I took mine apart to replace my valve cover gaskets mine was completely covered with carbon cleaned it up and the van idled and accelerated smoother at low rpm's, you could take it to a shop and have an induction service performed on it, that would clean up the throttle body and intake plenum, also maybe a partially clogged fuel injector or line, just some ideas.

1999 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8l, 152,000mi
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#5 Old 08-06-2012, 09:05 AM
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I guess I will just clean the throttle body myself and see if that helps. Should I actually take off the plenum and clean in there, or is that negligible?

Is carb cleaner a decent replacement for throttle body cleaner? Because I have some of that, while throttle body cleaner I will need to buy.

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.

Last edited by the_Big_dill; 08-07-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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#6 Old 08-08-2012, 11:32 PM
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As it turns out, Carb cleaner should be avoided

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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#7 Old 08-09-2012, 02:15 PM
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Could it be too low idle rpm once you shift into gear? The IAC valve should be bumping the rpms up to compensate for the added load.
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#8 Old 08-09-2012, 08:04 PM
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It is normal RPMs. I believe it is the throttle body that needs a cleaning. If the roughness remains afterwards, then i will be back

Thanks for the help and tips

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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#9 Old 08-09-2012, 10:59 PM
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I've noticed with dodge instrument clusters in full size and minivans is that you're best off to replace all your illumination bulbs at the same time. I can't explain why, but installing one or two new bulbs tend to burn out the old ones you left in once you reinstall the cluster. You won't need to change the bulbs for indicator lights.

No matter how much technology changes, there still isn't much that can't be solved with the sensible and practical application of a bigger hammer.
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#10 Old 08-10-2012, 12:38 AM
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I placed an order today for 8 new PC 74 bulbs.

Looking to fix the idle, i took off the air duct and could see and feel a black hard substance on the edge of the throttle plate! At least a few millimeters from the edge.

After some research, i found out the 3.3L has no mass air flow sensor and no EGR valve. Why no EGR?

Also, i am going to seafoam the car this weekend, i took out the break booster vacuum hose, and the revs started building, to my hesitation, i plugged it back in... is the rev building normal?

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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#11 Old 08-10-2012, 07:42 AM
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By taking the hose off, you gave the intake another source to pull in air. The computer is going to add fuel to accomodate the extra air going in to maintain a certain air/fuel ratio. So, yes the RPM will go up when you pull any vacuum hose that attaches to the intake manifold.

No matter how much technology changes, there still isn't much that can't be solved with the sensible and practical application of a bigger hammer.
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#12 Old 08-10-2012, 11:36 AM
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Yep, when i went to sleep, it kinda hit me that im opening another source of air to the manifold XD

So why is there no EGR valve on my engine? i am assuming not having one is a good thing, since its just to control emissions?

EDIT:

I looked closed into the idling and as it turns out it isn't steady on the revs.

Once the engine settles its at about 900RPM then after a few seconds it will drop down to 700RPM and idle roughly, sound and vibration, but only lasts for a second or two before the engine goes back to 900RPM and repeats this.

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.

Last edited by the_Big_dill; 08-10-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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#13 Old 08-10-2012, 08:54 PM
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I don't have an answer for your EGR question. I've heard that sometimes cam profiles are set up to retain some exhaust gases; thus, doing the same job the EGR used to do. I know that varaible valve timing engines are set up to retain exhaust gases and eliminate the EGR valve too.

I always wondered if the EGR valve, or the lack of, tied to whether or not the engine is flex fuel. The reason I wonder is because some engines do have EGR while others don't even in the same model years. I've had a thousand chances to ask smart people about that myself but i keep forgetting. I've got a head that's like pouring water through a collander. It'll retain something for a little while but it's always going to wind up empty again.

No matter how much technology changes, there still isn't much that can't be solved with the sensible and practical application of a bigger hammer.

Last edited by no_common_sense; 08-11-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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#14 Old 08-11-2012, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_common_sense View Post
I've got a head that's like pouring water through a collander. It'll retain something for a little while but it's always going to wind up empty again.
Now that I'm up off the floor that's me to a tee. Hilarious way to put it.
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#15 Old 08-13-2012, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_common_sense View Post
I always wondered if the EGR valve, or the lack of, tied to whether or not the engine is flex fuel. The reason I wonder is because some engines do have EGR while others don't even in the same model years. I've had a thousand chances to ask smart people about that myself but i keep forgetting. I've got a head that's like pouring water through a collander. It'll retain something for a little while but it's always going to wind up empty again.
Haha, i know what you mean, completely forget about something you had in mind when you need it :P

I believe the EGR has no longterm benefit in an engine and is used to control emissions, maybe the location where my van was built doesn't have strict policies with emissions. Furthermore, I find the EGRs on the 3.8s not the 3.3s.

Regarding the problem at hand...

- I cleaned the throttle plate and got rid of LOTS of black gunk, just kept pouring.

- I seafoamed the van, however i was a bit cocky and didn't let it sit in the engine for more than 5 minutes... I think i will have to do it again.

- Did a compression test and got the following readings (in PSI):

C1: 160
C2: 146
C3: 155
C4: 155
C5: 175
C6: 155

I would like to note that the compression tester i bought was $20 with 2 adapters, definitely low quality :P

- Changed plugs (Iridium IX) and Wires (AutoLite Professional)

Guess what... That Rough idle is still there!!!

Now i am thinking it is not the engine, because its only in D, R, 3 and L that this really rough idle occurs at 700RPM, Just a bit of throttle to get it above 1000 RPM it shuts up and is smooth.

Last thing that i may try cleaning is the oxygen sensor, after that, i am stumped...

I was wondering if the power steering pulley could be causing this, because when i turn the wheel, the rough idle becomes more aggressive?

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.

Last edited by the_Big_dill; 08-13-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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#16 Old 08-13-2012, 07:26 PM
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When you replaced the alternator, did you use one with the Lutens decoupler? If not, there's a good chance that the low speed roughness is being caused by an incorrect clutch.

2001 GC ES
1988 GC LE(RIP)
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#17 Old 08-13-2012, 08:03 PM
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I replaced my alternator with a used one as it turned out cheaper than the decoupler and it quietened the operation of the vehicle (outside of idle) as well as charged correctly.

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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#18 Old 08-16-2012, 02:47 PM
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Anyone?

Could the O2 sensor be causing this?

P1192 is the only code i have, and when the key is in the on position, the LIM (engine light) blinks, which i read is a major problem.

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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#19 Old 08-17-2012, 11:46 PM
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P1192 Inlet Air Temp. Circuit Low

The PCM uses this sensor along with the MAP sensor to help calculate the amount of air going through the intake. If it's not sending the correct voltage signal back to the PCM, the PCM may be running the engine with too much or not enough fuel which could explain that stumble. If you know how to test with a voltmeter, shoot me a PM and I'll get you a wiring diagram.

When you say LIM, do you actually mean MIL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_Big_dill View Post
I was wondering if the power steering pulley could be causing this, because when i turn the wheel, the rough idle becomes more aggressive?
The power steering is another load on the engine. It's not causing your problems, it's only amplifying the problem.

No matter how much technology changes, there still isn't much that can't be solved with the sensible and practical application of a bigger hammer.

Last edited by no_common_sense; 08-18-2012 at 12:02 AM.
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#20 Old 08-20-2012, 11:26 PM
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Yea, I meant MIL

That actually is the only culprit left with this rough idle, as all else has been dealt with, yet this has been an issue longer than I knew anything about the car.

Regarding the inlet air temp. sensor: I was told it has been replaced without any positive outcomes. I checked the connector to the sensor and it was clean, i even blew it with compressed air, but that did not help.

Did a true fuel economy test and am pleased to say that on a full tank of gas I can do over 700 kms, which is 9.4L/100km.

Also noticed a funky smell coming fromm the exhaust, is it dirty catalytic? I do know that the car burns oil, so that may also be it.

2002 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport 3.3L V6 @ 260,000 KM.
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