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Gusaroo
 
  Anitlock ABS problem? Brakes shuttering rumbling - Posted: 01-28-2012, 03:51 PM
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Post #1

I have a 2001 Grand Caravan with ABS (discs up front, drums in back) Recently I had the ABS light come on and then my wife complained the brakes were shuttering and not working normally. I did a front brake job and took a wire wheel to both front ABS tone rings to clean them since they were somewhat rusty and scaling. I also cleaned up the sensors. Now the ABS light is off, but from time to time the brakes seem to rumble and become spongy. I'm 99% sure its the ABS, since its the same pedal sensation you get when sliding to a stop in the snow and ABS engages. Any idea what could be going on here? I dont know where to look next.
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StandOnCliff
 
 Posted: 01-28-2012, 04:46 PM
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Post #2

May want to check out the rear wheels brakes. Heres a TSB on the rear brakes.

SUBJECT:
Snow/Water Ingestion Into Rear Brake Drum
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves installing a revised rear drum brake support (backing) plate and
possible replacement of the rear brake shoes and drums.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
While driving through deep or blowing snow/water, the snow/water may enter the rear
brake drums causing rust to develop on the rear brake drum and shoe friction surfaces.
This condition can lead to temporary freezing of the rear brake linings to the drums. This
symptom is experienced after the vehicle has been parked in below freezing temperatures
long enough for the snow/water to freeze inside of the rear brake drums. When the parking
brake has been applied the symptom is more likely to occur.
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no_common_sense
 
 Posted: 01-28-2012, 09:13 PM
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Post #3

Is there a particular range of speeds where the ABS is engaging?
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Gusaroo
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 07:52 AM
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Post #4

Hmmm...thats a good question, I haven't noticed. I think it was around 25-30 MPH. Is this something I should take note of? I could take it for a spin again and check it out.
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no_common_sense
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 09:41 AM
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Post #5

What I've seen is that if ABS engagement only happens at low speeds, there's a strong chance of a cracked tone ring to one of your ABS sensors. I believe that if it's not happening any faster than 25-30 it's one of the first possibilities you should check. If the ABS engagement stops somewhere between 8 to 5 MPH, it almost guarantees that a tone ring is cracked. The front tone rings are in plain sight but you'd probably need a scan tool with live PID data to show you the rear wheel speeds. You'd want to look for a slight variance in wheel speeds while driving in a straight line.
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Gusaroo
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 12:17 PM
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Post #6

Well, I pulled the abs sensors on the rear drums this morning and cleaned them up. The passenger rear one seemed to be damp or possibly oily. I couldn't identify the fluid on it. I pulled the drum and the brake cylinder is not leaking (they are fairly new). I could not get the big round black plastic tone ring covers off, so I blew them out with compressed air best I could. This seems to have resolved the problem (for now). How do you get those cover off? I was afraid of breaking them, so I left well enough alone. I would like to pull the cover so I can inspect the rear tone rings. I appreciate your help and insight, what you guys are telling me makes sense. Thx!
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no_common_sense
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 02:49 PM
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Post #7

The rear bearings are a sealed unit and not meant to ever come apart. If by some chance you can find yourself a scan tool to borrow or maybe even rent, that'll be the easiest way to verify the condition of the rear tone rings. The scan tool has to be able to do a lot more than just read codes. If you can find an OE scan tool, it's call the DRB III. Snap on's scan tool I'm most comfortable with is the MODIS. I worked with one called Ethos a few years ago but I didn't like it much. Mac tools has scan tools like the Mentor and the Navigator. These are actually made by OTC tools and go by Pegisys and Genisys under the OTC label. I don't think there's one in this heap that wouldn't let you look at your individual wheel speeds to see if one of them is bad.
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Gusaroo
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 09:19 PM
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Post #8

Well my wife just got back from the mall (hour+ round trip) and tells me the van ran perfectly until she pulled into our street, then the abs started acting up again a block from the house I am pretty sure it is the passenger rear sensor, since that was the only one that seemed to have a visual problem, being wet and oily. I'm gonna call around to some of the local auto parts places tomorrow to get a scan tool. I have a real problem with bringing a 10+ year old van to a dealership, I feel they could care less and always assume a car of this age is a POS and don't want to be bothered unless I fork over a 100 bucks.
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Gusaroo
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 09:24 PM
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Post #9

Funny what you say about the rear bearings as as a sealed unit,,,the shop manual I have shows the inner workings of the tone ring opened up and how they work...yet I cannot actually open it up to inspect? Its a Chilton manual, which I know is far less than perfect or reliable. At this point, i may force that plastic cover off to take a peek, then epoxy it back on when done. Bad idea?
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no_common_sense
 
 Posted: 01-29-2012, 09:47 PM
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Post #10

I've never tried it myself so I don't know what to tell you other than good luck.
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