Harmonic Balancer Sleeve and Seal Removed with pics - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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#1 Old 10-07-2010, 04:43 PM
landyacht318
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Harmonic Balancer Sleeve and Seal Removed with pics

I am in the midst of replacing my water pump and entire cooling system. Since I am this far into it, I am replacing the timing chain too.

I just removed the harmonic balancer. I used a sleeve and seal the last time. That little thin ring that slides tightly over the end which goes through the timing cover.

It has ~ 20 k miles on it, and there is a slight ridge on it from the front seal on the timing cover.

I have a new sleeve and seal, the whole timing cover gasket set.

Should I remove the old sleeve and seal and install the new one? How can I remove it?

Should I just put the new sleeve over the old sleeve and seal, if even possible?

Should I just keep the one with the slight groove on it and rely on the new timing cover seal?

It was not leaking before.

The harmonic balancer looks to be in good condition I do not want to replace it. Cannot afford to to so right now really.

I hope to button this up by tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks

'89 b250 318 TBI

Last edited by landyacht318; 10-08-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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#2 Old 10-07-2010, 07:01 PM
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I would just use the new seal and leave the current sleeve. I guess you could use a dremel with cut off wheel to gently cut into the current one but be careful not to cut the base metal, and the install the new if you want to.

1977 Chevrolet Impala Sedan, 5.0L, TH200, 2.56:1, 106K miles, 37 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1989 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 5.7L, 5 Speed, 3.08:1, 327K miles, 0 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1997 Dodge Ram B2500, gone.

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#3 Old 10-07-2010, 07:18 PM
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I would remove the old sleeve and install the new one along with a new seal. You cannot install the new one over the old one. The inside arc of the new sleeve is machined to match the arc of the crankshaft, not the arc of the old sleeve.

Since you plan on being buried in this van, do it right!
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#4 Old 10-07-2010, 08:20 PM
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I did pay the extra for the timing cover gasket set with the sleeve and seal, so I'm just gonna remove it, somehow. The groove in the old one is so slight I could get away with it but knowing murphy, It would come back and give me a five fingered prostate exam.

My old water pump has 30 k miles on it. The bearing on it sounds pretty loud, and spins around 15 times when spun by hand. It's got 6 vanes on the impeller. No corrosion/ pitting. The new GMB will not spin once and is stiff in comparison with an 8 vaned impeller.

It appears there was 2 pin holes in the bypass hose which is only 2 years old. Right on the inside of the elbow. I got it at Napa. No broken bolts in the block as I feared. I did screw up the timing gasket the last time. It had fallen inside on one corner up top. It did not leak though.

The timing chain had some slack. I have not yet compared the slack to the new one. I could push it in about 1/4 inch on each side. The New Cloyes has bigger rollers on the chain than whatever brand was in there. Looks like my coolant was about 30 percent coolant, because I had no Idea how much the total capacity was, and it's been leaking, and I've just been filling it with distilled water.

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#5 Old 10-08-2010, 02:45 AM
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It appears there was 2 pin holes in the bypass hose which is only 2 years old. Right on the inside of the elbow. I got it at Napa. No broken bolts in the block as I feared. I did screw up the timing gasket the last time. It had fallen inside on one corner up top. It did not leak though.
It's odd that there would be ANY holes in a 2 year-old hose. Was it straight after it was installed or was there even the slightest kink to it?

For the timing gasket, although there was no oil or AF leak, if air were allowed to pass through this gasket gap, it messes with the crankcase/PCV system vacuum. This could've affected the way the engine ran to some degree.
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#6 Old 10-08-2010, 08:26 AM
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The new Gates bypass hose appears 3/8 inch shorter with less of a sharp bend. It was leaking from inside the elbow. I'm gonna make sure the new hose when installed does not take on any new bends. There was some coolant seepage around one or 2 bolts too, but it looks like it sealed itself. Hard to tell if it just collected there from the bypass hose or not.

The bypass hose is very close to where my timing gasket was not properly attached. There is a lot of crud in that area, but it does kinds look like there was air pressure escaping there, but cannot be sure. I'd think the pcv would be pulling in air through there if there was an air leak.
I did use RTV too, and had to scrape it off the block in that area.

I remember being very stressed when reassembling the front end 4 years ago. I was missing work, working outside, and sunny Southern California decided to add to my misery with rain and wind. When a new brass freeze plug fell down the y pipe.......

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#7 Old 10-08-2010, 09:21 AM
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I remember being very stressed when reassembling the front end 4 years ago. I was missing work, working outside, and sunny Southern California decided to add to my misery with rain and wind. When a new brass freeze plug fell down the y pipe.......

And now you're older, wiser, and much, much, much, more patient?
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#8 Old 10-08-2010, 09:52 AM
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Well, definitely older anyway. And I've tempered my cursing fits, somewhat. Scaring the neighbors is not productive.

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#9 Old 10-08-2010, 05:03 PM
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The great thing about your type of van is that you can replace your whiny-assed neighbors on a daily basis.
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#10 Old 10-08-2010, 08:41 PM
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The sleeve took about a minute to remove with a small chisel and pair of plyers.

Nothing fought too bad today. Got the water pump installed and tightened. Only had to do one dry run. Taking my time. Gonna let the RTV go off fully before filling up the coolant. Had a closer look at the pulleys. They were filled with Baja's finest Dirt. Gonna clean them good and paint them.

Saw my blower motor was loose in the Hvac box. Hardware was ceased. Saw the previous owner replaced the motor, and did an extremely poor job splicing the wires.



Pretty easy to work on while the radiator is out.

Have a good weekend

'89 b250 318 TBI

Last edited by landyacht318; 10-08-2010 at 10:09 PM.
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#11 Old 10-08-2010, 08:53 PM
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The sleeve took about a minute to remove with a small chisel and pair of plyers.
Well now that was simple, seemed faster to remove than the post asking about it, lol.

Glad it went smooth today. Nice to see others who like checking out more than just what is currently being repaired. To many so called Techs only work on what is now broke and won't check to see what else needs, now or in the future, attention.

1977 Chevrolet Impala Sedan, 5.0L, TH200, 2.56:1, 106K miles, 37 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1989 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 5.7L, 5 Speed, 3.08:1, 327K miles, 0 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
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#12 Old 10-08-2010, 09:42 PM
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Well now that was simple, seemed faster to remove than the post asking about it, lol..
That's for sure. There was a little gap between the taper of the HB and the sleeve. I hit it with a super sharp chisel and it broke cleanly with out bending.

I then tried to grab it and peel it back with needle nose vice grips, but it tore just below the chisel cut,


so I just put the chisel flat on the HB and 2 hits with a hammer and it just crushed/ ripped the metal. It must be real high carbon steel. Super hard, but brittle.


It's nice not having to be in a rush to finish, also having access to my landlord/parking spot lord's tool shed.

'89 b250 318 TBI

Last edited by landyacht318; 10-08-2010 at 10:04 PM.
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#13 Old 10-08-2010, 10:13 PM
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I don'r know what brand of timing chain was in there. The new Cloyes chain was no tighter, so replacement was not necessary, But I already had it, so why not.

The Cloyes Chain has bigger rollers and sharper teeth on the sprockets.

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#14 Old 10-08-2010, 10:25 PM
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It's nice not having to be in a rush to finish, also having access to my landlord/parking spot lord's tool shed.
That is for sure. When I did my timing chain last year I had 4 days to do it, but each of them days had rain, a very heavy rain and I am out there trying to get the thing done before work on Monday between rain showers. Here is a pic of my Impala setting about a foot from the curb and two inches higher than the bottom of the curb trough. That was on Friday


It was supposed to have been an 8 hour job according to the labor rate chart.

1977 Chevrolet Impala Sedan, 5.0L, TH200, 2.56:1, 106K miles, 37 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1989 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 5.7L, 5 Speed, 3.08:1, 327K miles, 0 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1997 Dodge Ram B2500, gone.

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#15 Old 10-08-2010, 11:00 PM
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If somebody told me I had 8 hours to do the timing chain, I could do it, but it would be half assed. I've only done it with the radiator removed, and I can sit down in front of it, looking straight at it. Leaning over, and crawling under. No thanks

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#16 Old 10-08-2010, 11:10 PM
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If somebody told me I had 8 hours to do the timing chain, I could do it, but it would be half assed. I've only done it with the radiator removed, and I can sit down in front of it, looking straight at it. Leaning over, and crawling under. No thanks
Well time wise where I could get to it was more like 11 hours, and I did lean over and cawled under it as well, lol.

1977 Chevrolet Impala Sedan, 5.0L, TH200, 2.56:1, 106K miles, 37 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1989 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 5.7L, 5 Speed, 3.08:1, 327K miles, 0 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1997 Dodge Ram B2500, gone.

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#17 Old 10-08-2010, 11:20 PM
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Perhaps I couldn't do it in eight. I wonder how much faster the actual timing chain swap is without the radiator. Wonder if it would be worth removing it just for that task. Hope I never have to find out. I'm up to about 14 hours taking my sweet old time.

I Noticed for the first time that I have what appears to be a valve on my heater hose. It's got a vacuum line running to it and an arrow. From one of Alloro's posts I did not think the Heater core was switched. Is it that way on Magnum's?

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#18 Old 10-08-2010, 11:42 PM
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My heater valve is in the center of this pic behind the oil dipstick, does yours look similar? And yes it does have an arrow on it. Plus the vacuum line.

1977 Chevrolet Impala Sedan, 5.0L, TH200, 2.56:1, 106K miles, 37 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1989 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 5.7L, 5 Speed, 3.08:1, 327K miles, 0 Lifetime Warranty Parts.
1997 Dodge Ram B2500, gone.

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#19 Old 10-09-2010, 12:06 AM
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Looks like yours is a little spiffier than mine, with that vaccuum hose all protected like that.


Does this mean one of those heater hose adapters for a coolant temp sensor would not work unless the heat is on? Because then of course we can razz Alloro a bit.

My heater works great, but I've never flushed it, and I've seen more crud in my drained coolant than any other time. Is it as easy as it seems? Just unhook the hoses. Jam a hose in one line, then the other to back flush it. Or am I opening a can of worms?

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#20 Old 10-09-2010, 05:03 AM
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so I just put the chisel flat on the HB and 2 hits with a hammer and it just crushed/ ripped the metal. It must be real high carbon steel. Super hard, but brittle.
They're made so that you can remove/replace them

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having access to my landlord/parking spot lord's tool shed.
Been drinking tonight?
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