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JQuest64
 
  Question on Octane, and Dodge recommendations. - Posted: 09-19-2004, 09:04 AM
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Post #1

Hey All,

Been here a while and the board is a great wealth of info, great forum.

I have an '04 QC Hemi and the manual states the truck is designed for 87 and will run ok on it, but 89 will perform better. It then goes on to state using anything higher is not recommended, and may actually hurt performance. I bought my Ram in March, and never used anything but 89.

Here is my dilemna, I recently stopped at the station I always use, the only pumps working were for 93 octane. I filled up anyway and certainly did notice a change in performance.

My Ram is running like a Raped Ape on it!! I am almost through a whole tank, and MPG is still in the same range, but the trucks performance seems so much better, especially off the line.

Is this just a ploy by Dodge to avoid the better performance, and avoid heavier beatings on their warranty incurred by the increased fun factor the higher octane gives this truck?

What octane do you all run? How is your performance?
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glenB
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 09:12 AM
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Post #2

Due to weather conditions of late, I have been 'forced' to ' get what they got', like some third world country.

So, I tried the 93, didn't notice any increase in milage or performance. @ first I thought the 93 was making it run better, but after a few days, the thrill was gone, mileage the same. 87 sucked. Performance and mileage was gone.
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Zepp.
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 09:26 AM
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Post #3

Higher octane does not equal more power...

higher the number value, the stronger the resistance to detonation (knock, ping). The higher the number value, the stronger the resistance to detonation. Putting a higher octane gas will not help performance in any way unless you were experiencing some minor detonation with a lower grade of gas, which would be picked up by knock sensros and caused the PCM to dial back the ignition timing, which in turn would result in less power.

The reason the manufacturer explicitely states to not use a higher octane gas is that the computer was not programmed for it with an appropriate mapping. It will not hurt anything, but is a waste of money.
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JQuest64
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 09:36 AM
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Post #4

Zepp, what you states sounds logical, but why am I seeing performance gains?

I could not even get a chirp from the tires off the line when I punched it, they light up now.
If I rev to 1K, I sit and spin till the limiter dumps me down.
Is it possible that cooler weather conditions are affecting my performance, to this extent?

The only other thing I can think of it being is my power plant finally broke in completely. I don't know about that though, I have about 8,700 miles on it, shouldn't I be passed the breakin stage already?
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Hasek
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 09:42 AM
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Post #5

worst/best case with diffrent grades of gas would be engine temp alot of times if you run high octance gas it makes your engine run hotter wich can be good or bad depending on what your doing with it
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Zepp.
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 09:47 AM
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Post #6

Oh... I think I see the probably answer...

It says you are in South Beach (I live just outside Winter Haven, in Polk County).

Heat is the most likely answer... It's hot this time of year here in Florida, so the heat will cause some minor detonation under hard accleration and load, and I am 99% sure the PCM uses a knock sensor so, when it hears one or two knocks, it will dial back the ingition timing, but the higher octane fuel will help prevent that detonation and the computer doesn't dial back. It could be something else, but it is beyond my knowledge as to what.

As for break in, it is definately fully broken in by now.
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JQuest64
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 10:37 AM
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Post #7

Actually I live in Sound Beach, on Long Island in NY. We have actually had a bit of a cold spell with temps in the 60-70 degree range.

I do not know what the cause of my performance increase is, but the only changes have been in gas and ambient temp, but I have definitely seen much better performance.
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glenB
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 10:45 AM
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Post #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by JQuest64
Actually I live in Sound Beach, on Long Island in NY. We have actually had a bit of a cold spell with temps in the 60-70 degree range.

I do not know what the cause of my performance increase is, but the only changes have been in gas and ambient temp, but I have definitely seen much better performance.
I would blame it on the temps. Motors love cool air, hence all the CAI and the IAT mod.
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BLACKWOLF
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 10:47 AM
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Post #9

I ran 87 in my Ram the first few tanks and noticed it kind of stumbled or chugged at idle. I went to 89 and it went away. As for milage, what's milage?

If I run anything but 93 in my TA it hesitates and chugs like crazy.
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Zepp.
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 10:56 AM
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Post #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by JQuest64
Actually I live in Sound Beach, on Long Island in NY. We have actually had a bit of a cold spell with temps in the 60-70 degree range.
Oh fine... I need glasses too!!! ahhh... First, In another thread, I make myself look like a fool for forgetting the rediculously convoluted and idiotic DIN tire sizes as I have the logical and straitforward old ASE system permanently engraved on my braincells and now this...

I wonder if there is an old folks home for old motorheads like me!

Oh, and GlenB probably hit the nail on the head... If the ambient air temps were warmer when you used a lower octane fuel, it's the air temp above all else... I can;t recall the equation, but every 1%F drop in ambient air temp nets x% of increase in power.

Oh, and GlenB... ALL IC engines "love" cool air.
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JQuest64
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 10:59 AM
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Post #11

Thanks for all the input Guys.

While I thought gains were the gas, the good news is, I can still get the performance from 89 which is about 20 cents a gallon cheaper here.
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AIR_RAM
 
 Posted: 09-19-2004, 11:14 AM
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Post #12

I bet it was a combonation of the two... the higher octane and the cooler air... but the fact is the higher the octane value the harder it is to burn. So if your engine "CR" is not high enough requiore the higher octane your just waisting money and infact could be hurting performance as the flame will not travel as fast accross the piston tops... Also you pumped in the higher octane but it was mixed with the lower stuff you had in your tank so its safe to say that the octane level in your tank was perhaps lower than what was actually pumped in.

Gas quality is a posibility as well. The 89 octane from one station could out perform 89 Octane from another. Its not all the same stuff and you should do your best to find out where the higher quality fuel can be had. Some get the octane value by adding additives and there are MANY differnet additives that can effect the octane reading so your not always getting the SAME 89 octane fuel....

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
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Hauln Hemi
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 12:40 AM
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Post #13

what about them octane boosters ya can buy at like auto zone? the say on the box they come in (they look like bigger C02 canisters for a paintball gun) that ya can pick up horsepower by pourin 'em into your gas tank. i've never tried em- has anyone else and noticed better performance? and what about the gas ya can buy at the track that has real high octane (not sure what it is, like 97 or higher)???
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BiIIy_B0b
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 08:29 AM
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Post #14

well colorado is a stupid state when it comes to gas octane.....it runs 85, 87, and 91


i used to run strictly 91 octane, one day said phuck it i'll try 87.....i've noticed no different performance or mpg from 91 to 87....so i'm strictly running 87 now

can't wait for superchips to put out there 04 programmer so i can run there 87 performace program
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KB112
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 04:25 PM
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Post #15

By the way, those "octane" Boosters you see at a lot of auto stores are pretty much worthless. I was reading a can of the "Outlaw" Booster I believe and it said it raises your octane level 10 Points! I thought thats awesome, I was gonna run it in my Waverunner which is recommended to run on 91, to help boost it higher. Well after reading some of the fine print it stated that 10 octane "points" is equal to 1 octane. So I paid like $5 to go from 91 to 92 octane. So if you bought 87 octane gas anf thought you were gonna really boost it up your only getting 88 octane. With the extra $5 you spent on that you could have probably filled up your tank with 91 Octane!

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Zepp.
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 04:44 PM
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Post #16

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiIIy_B0b
well colorado is a stupid state when it comes to gas octane.....it runs 85, 87, and 91


i used to run strictly 91 octane, one day said phuck it i'll try 87.....i've noticed no different performance or mpg from 91 to 87....so i'm strictly running 87 now

can't wait for superchips to put out there 04 programmer so i can run there 87 performace program
Octane requirements decrease with altitude and the average altitude in Colorado justifies a lower octane rating.

In other words, if your vehicle requires 87 at sea level, In denver, at 5280ft (1mi.) up, it only requires 85., and if 89, then there it requires only 87, etc.

Remember, higher octane does NOT produce more power... Racing gas is higher octane to help stop detonation (ping, knock), which would otherwise occur in high compression racing engines and/or under heavy loads.

In a factory stock compression engine, unless the engines experiences detonation regularly (due to various factors, such as advanced ignition timing, higher compression, hot ambient conditions, etc.), there is no advantage or reason to use a higher octane fuel... it is merely throwing away money.
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AIR_RAM
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 04:48 PM
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Post #17

Exactly! Well put. You just can not beat Good gas! If your engine requiors 87 octane then get teh best 87 octane you can find... it is not all the same. Also if your going to do some heavy towing/off road racing then using the higher octane would offer better performance under a load. But in normal everyday street driving your unlikely to see a benifit. Pay a little more for the lower octane form a better station... Im not going to recomend Gas stations but if you do your home work you will learn whe sells the best gas in your area.

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YELLOWHEMI
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 07:08 PM
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Post #18

87 octane and it runs great. Towed on 87 also and it runs fine.
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dieseljunkie
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 07:53 PM
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Post #19

wierd.. my truck runs great on #2....


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jmbones
 
 Posted: 09-20-2004, 09:18 PM
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Post #20

as i stated in a previous post, been runnin' 87oct in my '03 5.7 since the day i bought it (july/03) and no problems.
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