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rammit98
 
  Brake Shudder/Front Passenger side vibration - Posted: 04-15-2010, 10:20 AM
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Post #1

Hey guys,
I am at the end of my rope on this issue - searched through old posts and I can't find anything that is quite the same.

The issue is, when braking, I have a lightly pulsing brake pedal as well as a shudder on the front passenger side of the truck (I can watch the hood vibrate on that side while braking).

I have new stainless braided brake lines, speed bleeders on new calipers (freshly bled), freshly rebuilt rear drums, cross-drilled slotted rotors, ceramic pads, just replaced unit bearings, 1 yr old ball joints across the front. The rear doesn't seem to be the problem - when braking with the emergency brake only, there is no shudder. I don't really know where to go from here... how do you diagnose a bad master/slave cylinder? Are there any other issues which could cause this problem? I checked the alignment with a tape measure from front to front and rear to rear of front tires, and it seems fine. Truck tracks in a straight line when driving and doesn't really wander. Pulls slightly to the left when braking, but I think that a pad is worn unevenly... have a new set to swap in, but this problem has been happening since before my last brake job.

Any ideas or suggestions???
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1998 Ram 1500 Sport 4X4 Quad Cab 130,000 Miles
5.2L - 1 5/8" Equal Length Headers, Copper Gaskets, Mopar M1 Intake Manifold, RActive Air Intake, 52mm Polished Throttle Body, SCT TUNED!
- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
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- 180* T-stat, Stainless Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses

The Money Pit List
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jmsteelers11
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 11:29 AM
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Post #2

Well the pulsating would be warped rotors. I can imagine a "shudder" possibly coming from the dust shield rubbing against the rotor on the inside of the tire. Its thin metal fairly flexible and can be bent back. Jack the truck up and spin the tire see if you hear anything hitting, And also wobble the tire while in the air to check for bad bearings. Hard tellin from what you described, check suspension components look for anything out of the ordinary. Good luck.
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KC_Metal
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 11:36 AM
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Post #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsteelers11 View Post
Well the pulsating would be warped rotors. I can imagine a "shudder" possibly coming from the dust shield rubbing against the rotor on the inside of the tire. Its thin metal fairly flexible and can be bent back. Jack the truck up and spin the tire see if you hear anything hitting, And also wobble the tire while in the air to check for bad bearings. Hard tellin from what you described, check suspension components look for anything out of the ordinary. Good luck.
I'd say it's a warped rotor or a bad wheel bearing.
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 12:11 PM
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Post #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsteelers11 View Post
Well the pulsating would be warped rotors. I can imagine a "shudder" possibly coming from the dust shield rubbing against the rotor on the inside of the tire. Its thin metal fairly flexible and can be bent back. Jack the truck up and spin the tire see if you hear anything hitting, And also wobble the tire while in the air to check for bad bearings. Hard tellin from what you described, check suspension components look for anything out of the ordinary. Good luck.
I check the rotors a couple weeks ago when i replaced calipers. originally i though the passenger side caliper was failing. nothing is coming in contact that shouldnt be. checked ball joints and bearings - replaced the unit bearings. wheel spins good and suspension doesn't appear to have any worn out components.

Also, i should add that the brakes work well. They will lock up and stop the truck just fine, even with 33's...
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- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
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The Money Pit List
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KC_Metal
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 01:04 PM
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Post #5

Well if it's not the rotors I'd be surprised. Why don't you just change out the side that shakes and see if it fixes the problem. My rotors looked great on my Taurus so I didn't change them when I did the pads and only every once and a while it shimmies just like my Impala did with the 4 wheel disk.
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BigGreenV10
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 01:35 PM
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Post #6

I agree change the rotors and see what happens.
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 04:36 PM
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Post #7

the rotors are practically new. they went on less than 30k miles ago. i pulled them to check em out and they are barely worn, and they are straight. checked with machinist straight edge and caliper... they havent been that hot, either.

is there anything else that could cause my problems? drilled and slotted rotors arent cheap and im broke. lol
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1998 Ram 1500 Sport 4X4 Quad Cab 130,000 Miles
5.2L - 1 5/8" Equal Length Headers, Copper Gaskets, Mopar M1 Intake Manifold, RActive Air Intake, 52mm Polished Throttle Body, SCT TUNED!
- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
- Harland Sharp 1.7 Roller Rockers, Custom Polished Aluminum Valve Covers
- MagnaFlow Cat, Flowmaster 40 Series Split Rear
- Rough Country 3" Suspension Lift, 1" TGC coil spacers, Custom Lower Control Arms, 3" Body Lift, Poly Bushings (all around), Skyjacker Track Bar
- 33" BFG All-Terrain TA/KO on 15X10 Mickey Thompson Classic II, Summit Cross-Drilled Slotted Rotors, Russell Stainless Braided Brake Lines
- Bushwacker Fender Flares
- TransGo Shift Kit, PermaCool Tranny Cooler
- 180* T-stat, Stainless Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses

The Money Pit List
- Nerf Bars
- 4.56 Ring & Pinions
- Electric Fans & Aluminum Shroud
- March Underdrive Pulleys
- Powermaster 170 Amp Alternator, Dual Battery Box
- Powertrax No-Slip (out back), Maybe an ARB (up front)
- -AN Cooling, Heating, Fuel Lines
- Lift 'er Again
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dkacat
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 07:34 PM
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Post #8

You've already checked this, but I'm putting it out there anyway. Just had a similar situation on my wife's Pacifica. I thought for sure it was brake rotors, but it was actually a caused by a worn tie rod end. Any slop in those can cause your wheels to shake & brake pedal to pulsate under braking.
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redheadhunter21
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 08:21 PM
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Post #9

Did this start when you put the rotors in try flipping the side the rotor is on, like take the passenger side and move it to the drivers side, that is if there not directional rotors and do you have an old set to throw on real quick.

Jack up front tires and see if they have movement side to side, and up, down
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Ram Pwnage
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 11:17 PM
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Post #10

If there's no loose parts, and the rotors aren't warped make sure the hub surface is clean. If you get rust buildup or contaminants are b/w the hub and rotor it can cause runout that will cause a vibration
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key99
 
 Posted: 04-15-2010, 11:36 PM
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Post #11

Could worn/loose front suspension arm bushings/mounts be allowing front diff housing to "twist", or jump "foward and rearward", causing the shudder? ..... If so, it may cause trouble with the brakes/antilock. Just a guess.
....Does it shudder and pulse under heavy braking, and/or light braking, or does it ALWAYS do it?
...Are the pulses always "in time" with each wheel/rotor rotation?
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 09:25 AM
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Post #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by key99 View Post
Could worn/loose front suspension arm bushings/mounts be allowing front diff housing to "twist", or jump "foward and rearward", causing the shudder? ..... If so, it may cause trouble with the brakes/antilock. Just a guess.
....Does it shudder and pulse under heavy braking, and/or light braking, or does it ALWAYS do it?
...Are the pulses always "in time" with each wheel/rotor rotation?
i was wondering about the suspension letting the axle to twist slightly... bushings look good, but thought that the alignment (thrust angle, or axle center) might be off.

it shudders under all breaking conditions, seems to get worse the more i drive it in a session. it will be seemingly fine the first stop sign i brake for in my neighborhood in the morning and each subsequent stop it will get more noticeable until its just bad all the time.

i cant be sure if the pulses are in time with wheel rotation. it kinda seems like they are not. it doesnt pulse faster if i am trying to stop from a faster speed...
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1998 Ram 1500 Sport 4X4 Quad Cab 130,000 Miles
5.2L - 1 5/8" Equal Length Headers, Copper Gaskets, Mopar M1 Intake Manifold, RActive Air Intake, 52mm Polished Throttle Body, SCT TUNED!
- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
- Harland Sharp 1.7 Roller Rockers, Custom Polished Aluminum Valve Covers
- MagnaFlow Cat, Flowmaster 40 Series Split Rear
- Rough Country 3" Suspension Lift, 1" TGC coil spacers, Custom Lower Control Arms, 3" Body Lift, Poly Bushings (all around), Skyjacker Track Bar
- 33" BFG All-Terrain TA/KO on 15X10 Mickey Thompson Classic II, Summit Cross-Drilled Slotted Rotors, Russell Stainless Braided Brake Lines
- Bushwacker Fender Flares
- TransGo Shift Kit, PermaCool Tranny Cooler
- 180* T-stat, Stainless Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses

The Money Pit List
- Nerf Bars
- 4.56 Ring & Pinions
- Electric Fans & Aluminum Shroud
- March Underdrive Pulleys
- Powermaster 170 Amp Alternator, Dual Battery Box
- Powertrax No-Slip (out back), Maybe an ARB (up front)
- -AN Cooling, Heating, Fuel Lines
- Lift 'er Again
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 09:26 AM
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Post #13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Pwnage View Post
If there's no loose parts, and the rotors aren't warped make sure the hub surface is clean. If you get rust buildup or contaminants are b/w the hub and rotor it can cause runout that will cause a vibration
hubs are about a month old. i have been trying to eliminate stuff and have been replacing parts that might be the problem. hubs were worn ne ways so they got replaced. there is not rust, contamination on the rotors or hubs.
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1998 Ram 1500 Sport 4X4 Quad Cab 130,000 Miles
5.2L - 1 5/8" Equal Length Headers, Copper Gaskets, Mopar M1 Intake Manifold, RActive Air Intake, 52mm Polished Throttle Body, SCT TUNED!
- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
- Harland Sharp 1.7 Roller Rockers, Custom Polished Aluminum Valve Covers
- MagnaFlow Cat, Flowmaster 40 Series Split Rear
- Rough Country 3" Suspension Lift, 1" TGC coil spacers, Custom Lower Control Arms, 3" Body Lift, Poly Bushings (all around), Skyjacker Track Bar
- 33" BFG All-Terrain TA/KO on 15X10 Mickey Thompson Classic II, Summit Cross-Drilled Slotted Rotors, Russell Stainless Braided Brake Lines
- Bushwacker Fender Flares
- TransGo Shift Kit, PermaCool Tranny Cooler
- 180* T-stat, Stainless Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses

The Money Pit List
- Nerf Bars
- 4.56 Ring & Pinions
- Electric Fans & Aluminum Shroud
- March Underdrive Pulleys
- Powermaster 170 Amp Alternator, Dual Battery Box
- Powertrax No-Slip (out back), Maybe an ARB (up front)
- -AN Cooling, Heating, Fuel Lines
- Lift 'er Again
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 09:33 AM
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Post #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadhunter21 View Post
Did this start when you put the rotors in try flipping the side the rotor is on, like take the passenger side and move it to the drivers side, that is if there not directional rotors and do you have an old set to throw on real quick.

Jack up front tires and see if they have movement side to side, and up, down
this has been going on for years... since before i put my lift on. used to not be as noticeable, just a shudder on the front pass. side of the truck, now its a pretty bad shudder, and pulsing brake pedal. can't flip the rotors, they are directional.

pretty much everything has been replaced on the front end since this started. they only things that havent been touched are some suspension/steering joints, master/slave cylinder.
__________________
1998 Ram 1500 Sport 4X4 Quad Cab 130,000 Miles
5.2L - 1 5/8" Equal Length Headers, Copper Gaskets, Mopar M1 Intake Manifold, RActive Air Intake, 52mm Polished Throttle Body, SCT TUNED!
- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
- Harland Sharp 1.7 Roller Rockers, Custom Polished Aluminum Valve Covers
- MagnaFlow Cat, Flowmaster 40 Series Split Rear
- Rough Country 3" Suspension Lift, 1" TGC coil spacers, Custom Lower Control Arms, 3" Body Lift, Poly Bushings (all around), Skyjacker Track Bar
- 33" BFG All-Terrain TA/KO on 15X10 Mickey Thompson Classic II, Summit Cross-Drilled Slotted Rotors, Russell Stainless Braided Brake Lines
- Bushwacker Fender Flares
- TransGo Shift Kit, PermaCool Tranny Cooler
- 180* T-stat, Stainless Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses

The Money Pit List
- Nerf Bars
- 4.56 Ring & Pinions
- Electric Fans & Aluminum Shroud
- March Underdrive Pulleys
- Powermaster 170 Amp Alternator, Dual Battery Box
- Powertrax No-Slip (out back), Maybe an ARB (up front)
- -AN Cooling, Heating, Fuel Lines
- Lift 'er Again
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Harveyb
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 10:07 AM
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Post #15

my truck did that when the front tires were badly cupped,had it lined up and rotated the tires and the problem was gone.
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Harveyb
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 10:10 AM
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Post #16

also to add,I just thought the rotors were warped(felt just like a warped rotor)and replaced them,I was pretty dissapointed when I still had the problem.
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fastman 52mm throttle body,Gibson shorty ceramic coated headers,airgap intake,K&N cold air intake,mopar performance valve covers,harland sharp 1.7 roller rockers and magna flow high flow cat and y-pipe.37/12.50/17 BFGOODRICH M/Ts on Cragar Black Rock Wheels,4.88 gearing,converted to 5-speed,5" BDS long arm lift with full rear leafs,plus a 2" coil spacer and 2"taller rear leaf blocks,DT profab trackbar,Borgeson steering box and steering shaft,BD Diesel steering box brace,dual steering stabilizer,Bilstein shocks and stabilizers all around,1-ton steering upgrade.
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 10:28 AM
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Post #17

the tires are wearing very well. they arent that old and i rotate them regularly, problem stays where it is and doesnt follow a tire through rotation.

this is really pi$$ing me off.

later today ill jack it up and start rechecking everything that i can without throwing more money at it.
__________________
1998 Ram 1500 Sport 4X4 Quad Cab 130,000 Miles
5.2L - 1 5/8" Equal Length Headers, Copper Gaskets, Mopar M1 Intake Manifold, RActive Air Intake, 52mm Polished Throttle Body, SCT TUNED!
- Mopar Performance Cap and Rotor, MSD Super Conductor 8.5mm wires, Summit Digital CD Ignition and Coil, Autolite 3923s
- Harland Sharp 1.7 Roller Rockers, Custom Polished Aluminum Valve Covers
- MagnaFlow Cat, Flowmaster 40 Series Split Rear
- Rough Country 3" Suspension Lift, 1" TGC coil spacers, Custom Lower Control Arms, 3" Body Lift, Poly Bushings (all around), Skyjacker Track Bar
- 33" BFG All-Terrain TA/KO on 15X10 Mickey Thompson Classic II, Summit Cross-Drilled Slotted Rotors, Russell Stainless Braided Brake Lines
- Bushwacker Fender Flares
- TransGo Shift Kit, PermaCool Tranny Cooler
- 180* T-stat, Stainless Upper & Lower Radiator Hoses

The Money Pit List
- Nerf Bars
- 4.56 Ring & Pinions
- Electric Fans & Aluminum Shroud
- March Underdrive Pulleys
- Powermaster 170 Amp Alternator, Dual Battery Box
- Powertrax No-Slip (out back), Maybe an ARB (up front)
- -AN Cooling, Heating, Fuel Lines
- Lift 'er Again
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key99
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 11:31 AM
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Post #18

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Originally Posted by rammit98 View Post
it shudders under all breaking conditions, seems to get worse the more i drive it in a session. it will be seemingly fine the first stop sign i brake for in my neighborhood in the morning and each subsequent stop it will get more noticeable until its just bad all the time.

i cant be sure if the pulses are in time with wheel rotation. it kinda seems like they are not. it doesnt pulse faster if i am trying to stop from a faster speed...
..... Sounds like an anti lock issue.
.. I would check into a COMPLETE bleeding of the system. Theres 2 DIFFERENT procedures(even the wheel sequence is different); one for "Rear Wheel Anti-Lock" (RWAL), and the other for the optional "4-wheel Anti-Lock Brake System" (ABS).
...... Haynes says there is ORIGINAL and also updated/different? anti-lock valve. Also may need special tool to bleed it and the motor assembly.
...Im guessing its important to identify EXACTLY whats in your truck, as that will dictate procedure. Good luck man. HTH
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Ormudboy09
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 01:11 PM
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Post #19

Ive got the same problem .. Mines a mixture of Rotors and Pitman arm and Idler arm .. check them too . i replaced my pitman and now i have to do my idler arm .. they both had slack in them .
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rammit98
 
 Posted: 04-16-2010, 03:04 PM
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Post #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ormudboy09 View Post
Ive got the same problem .. Mines a mixture of Rotors and Pitman arm and Idler arm .. check them too . i replaced my pitman and now i have to do my idler arm .. they both had slack in them .
pitman arm is pretty new. i dont think i have an idler arm (4wd), am i right?
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