Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge P200 Mail Van - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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#1 Old 11-06-2009, 05:06 AM
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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge P200 Mail Van

Hey All,
My name is JC Allison, I'm 70 years old, and am the caretaker of Lorrie Van Haul, a 1967 Dodge P200 Mail Van:

Lorrie was parked in 1996 after returning from a trip to San Marcos, Texas, and hasn't moved since, with health problems and general situational conditions being the cause of her inactivity.

Am in the process of awakening Lorrie from her long (14 years) sleep, and have so far, rebuilt her Holley 1920 Carburetor, replaced her Fuel Pump, Water Pump, and spiffed up her engine, among other things.

Have obtained a new Master Cylinder, new Right Front Wheel Cylinder, a rebuild kit for her Left Front Wheel Cylinder, and have cleaned all the Brake Components for both Front Brake Assemblies.

Am now in the process of refurbishing her Brake System Hydraulics, as in 1985 it was refurbished, and the mistake of putting DOT5 Silicone Brake Fluid into her was made. This is going to be cleared out with Brakleen, compressed air, and then flushed with DOT3 Brake Fluid, which will be the Brake Fluid used when the entire system is finished being rebuilt.

The problem that I'm having is that I cannot find the Flexible Brake Hoses for the Front Brake System. The Flexible Brake Hoses for the Rear Brake System are available, but NOT the Front ones.

Anyone know of any vendors for the Front Flexible Brake Hoses? Lorrie NEEDS two of them.

Hope you all are well.

JC
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#2 Old 11-06-2009, 05:40 AM
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first off WELCOME to the site

is this the Van ?

http://msamericanpi.bravehost.com/dodge.htm

that must be hard to find parts for .... I would try a few vendors, but you may have to have a set made for you ..

Have you tried places like

http://www.rockauto.com/

http://www.p-s-t.com/pc-3920-135-chr...t-1967-76.aspx

http://www.inlinetube.com/

let us know what you find out

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Good luck on your project.
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#3 Old 11-06-2009, 10:50 AM
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Are these are the type with springs around them to prevent chaffing on the shocks like an A-100? I was able to find the hoses 10yrs ago from NAPA but had to wind the springs off the old hoses and on to the new ones. (I don't know if they can still get them.)

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#4 Old 11-06-2009, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by B-300 View Post
Are these are the type with springs around them to prevent chaffing on the shocks like an A-100?
Hey Mr. B-300,
No. they are just Brake hoses with one end having a LONG threaded tube that threads through the frame which has a HEX NUT fastened to the inside of the frame. And the other end goes into the Wheel Cylinder.

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I was able to find the hoses 10yrs ago from NAPA but had to wind the springs off the old hoses and on to the new ones. (I don't know if they can still get them.)
I have checked with NAPA, and they have only the Rear Flexible Brake Hoses. I haven't yet checked the Rear Flexible Brake Hoses, but intend to do so when I finish here, because the thought occurred to me that they may be identical.

AND MR. RAM MAN: I cannot respond to your post because it has URLs in it and I'm not allowed to have any URLs in any of my posts till I have made five posts. I took all of them out a response, but still can't send the response because I get the five post error message.

JC
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#5 Old 11-06-2009, 03:32 PM
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no problem

keep us posted, we will try to help

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#6 Old 11-06-2009, 03:56 PM
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Hey All,
Got the Left Front Brake Components all cleaned.

Got the Right Front Brake Components soaking in solvent overnight, and will be cleaning them tomorrow.

Found that Lorrie has but one Flexible Brake Hose in the Rear Braking System, and it is quite a heavy hose. I won't know if it needs to be replaced until the Rear Brake System is taken apart and inspected.

QUESTION: Is there any way to test the Front Flexible Brake Hoses to see if they really NEED replacing. All along, I have been proceeding under the assumption that because they had been sitting since 1996, that they PROBABLY needed replacing. But is there any way to actually KNOW for sure?

I DID put Brakleen through the Front Brake System Lines this morning. Would Getting Brakleen on them hurt them?

It would certainly simplify the process if they didn't HAVE to be replaced.

Thanks in advance for any input.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#7 Old 11-06-2009, 04:02 PM
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no problem
Hey Mr. RM,
I DID get Lorrie's web page URL into the signature at the bottom of my posts!

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keep us posted, we will try to help
That would really be appreciated. I'm going to see if I can find a way to "test" to see if the Front Flexible Brake Hoses just ABSOLUTELY need replacing. There must be a way to test them. I'd like to do it while they're still on Lorrie, but if they just HAVE to be taken off, that could be done also.

Thanks for the interest.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#8 Old 11-07-2009, 01:43 AM
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Hoses screwed into the wheel cylinder (sealed with a copper washer), with a hex flange on the chassis end that has an inverted flare connection is exactly what the A-100 and early B-series vans with drum brakes use.

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#9 Old 11-07-2009, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by B-300 View Post
Hoses screwed into the wheel cylinder (sealed with a copper washer),
Hey Mr. B-300,
Yes.

Got a NEW Wheel Cylinder for Lorrie's Right Front Wheel, and it came with the Copper Washer. Got a supply of those same Copper Washers at that time.

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with a hex flange on the chassis end that has an inverted flare connection is exactly what the A-100 and early B-series vans with drum brakes use.
So... possibly an A-100 and/or an early B-Series Van w/ Drum Brakes Flexible Brake Hose would work. The end opposite the Wheel Cylinder that goes through the Hex Flange is a LONNNG threaded section.

Did a CAREFUL inspection of the EXISTING Front Flexible Brake Hoses yesterday evening. Cleaned them off the oxidized rubber on the surface, and under the soot-like covering, the rubber is solid, no cracks, and the Hoses are flexible, solid, and quite substantial.

Am thinking that all they need is a careful cleaning of the Wheel Cylinder end fitting, and reinstalling them when the Wheel Cylinders and NEW Copper Washers go back on.

Then before driving Lorrie, doing a test by applying a LOT of Brake Pedal... Actually make a concerted effort to "pop" the brake lines. If they don't give out, I'd feel pretty safe in just leaving them on.

Whaddaya think?

Also, in messing with this, notice that the Steel Tubing in the system has a coil of wire around the Steel Tubing. What's up with THAT, I wonder? Ms. American 3.14159 (the 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 Police Interceptor) doesn't have anything like that on her Brake Lines.

So here's the PLAN:

Going to hone the Left Front Wheel Cylinder, and install the Rebuild Kit. Then reassemble both front Brake Assemblies.

Going to then put Lorrie's Rear Axle up on Jack Stands, remove the Wheels/Tires, remove the Rear Brake assemblies, remove the Wheel Cylinders and Flush the Rear Brake System with Brakleen and Compressed Air.

Will inspect the Rear Wheel Cylinders, and if they'll come apart, they'll get honed and new Cups, Spring and Boots will be installed the same as Lorrie's Left Front Wheel. If they are "frozen", as was Lorrie's Right Front Wheel Cylinder, they'll get replaced with NEW Units.

Will clean and repaint the Back Plates, Drums, and Brake Assembly Components, and reassemble the Brake Assemblies.

Then comes installation of the NEW Master Cylinder, and the hooking up of the Front and Rear System Connections. Reinstall the Brake Pedal Push Rod, Add Dot3 Brake Fluid, and Bleed the entire system. Then try to "pop" the Flexible Brake Hoses.

BTW, Lorrie is going to NEED the Boot that goes on the Keeper that holds the Master Cylinder Cylinder in place, and through which goes the Brake Pedal Push Rod. Do you have any idea where THAT item can be had? If not, it's Google Search time again.

The Brake Light Switch, along with the Pedal Back Travel Limiter also has to go in place.

As soon as all this is done, It'll be time go get Lorrie's Engine back up and running. But that's another Saga.

Anyway, thanks for the info about the A-100 and B-Series Brake Lines. If Lorries Hoses pop, then those will possibly be what will replace them.

Will keep you updated as events occur.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#10 Old 11-07-2009, 02:29 PM
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If the hoses aren't cracked externally there probably OK. An extreme pressure test as suggested will verify this.
As to coiled wire on brake lines, this is usually done for protection were rocks could be thrown up from the road and damage them.
The only place I have seen the pushrod boot is with a new master cylinder.

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#11 Old 11-07-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by B-300 View Post
If the hoses aren't cracked externally they're probably OK. An extreme pressure test as suggested will verify this.
Hey Mr. B-300,
Did some stuff with the Left Front Flexible Brake Hose... Wiped it quite vigorously with Viva Paper Towels. Got LOTS of black "soot" off of it. Then wiped it quite vigorously with a Terry Cloth Wash Rag. Got SOME black "soot" off of it. The wiped it quite vigorously with a used, wet, Scotch Bright Pad. Got A BIT of black "soot". Rinsed off the SBP and continued until no more black "soot" was evident. Then wiped the Hose down with Armor All Tire Foam. It came out looking like a NEW Hose, and NO MORE "soot"!

Then did a VERY careful inspection with a 10X Magnifying Head Set. There are NO crack, checks, rips, or tears.

Then cleaned the fitting that goes into the Wheel Cylinder with a Wire Brush Wheel in a Craftsman RotoTool, and the Hose looks like it is BRAND NEW.

Am thinking that they will be just fine, but will do the extreme pressure test once the system is all together just to be sure. BTW, found some numbers on the Wheel Cylinder End Fitting. -- 037 8 -- Whatever THAT means.

Quote:
As to coiled wire on brake lines, this is usually done for protection were rocks could be thrown up from the road and damage them.
Have to say that looking at the Brake Lines with the wire coils around them has an "Alien" movie look to it. Also, in the book "The Arms of Krupp" (Krupp was Adolph Hitler's weapons supplier), there is a reference to having "coils" of Wire Rope around the barrels of Howitzer type artillery weapons to strengthen them, and keep them from exploding when they were fired. Thought that the coils of wire on Lorrie's Brake Lines might be an effort to strengthen the metal tubing.

Quote:
The only place I have seen the pushrod boot is with a new master cylinder.
Hey Mr. B-300, just went and checked the NEW Master Cylinder package and SURE ENOUGH, There IS a New Boot included!

Also today, honed the Left Front Wheel Cylinder. It is not usable. Too pitted to work.

So tomorrow, am going to assemble the Left Front Brake Assembly using the NEW Wheel Cylinder originally intended for the Right Front Brake Assembly seeing as to how all the other Left Front Brake Components have been cleaned and are ready for installation. The Right Front Brake Components are all soaking in solvent, and are ready to be dried and cleaned with a Wire Brush Wheel in the Craftsman RotoTool.

Will then on Monday, will order another Front Wheel Cylinder, and TWO Rear Wheel Cylinders from NAPA, and just be done with it. They're each less than $15.00 and Lorrie is worth it!

So things are moving along at a bewildering pace here, and the weather forecast is for GREAT weather for the foreseeable future.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#12 Old 11-09-2009, 01:38 PM
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Hey All,
Monday Update:

Got the Right Front Flexible Brake Hose Wheel Cylinder End Fitting cleaned, along with the Rubber Hose part done with soap and water, then Armor All Tire Foam. It looks BRAND NEW.

Got the Bracket to which the Master Cylinder is mounted all cleaned, along with the Brake Line Fittings that screw into the Master Cylinder.

Won't be able to install the Master Cylinder until AFTER the Rear Brake System is done because in order to clean out the Rear Brake Hydraulic System, access to the Brake line that screws into the Master Cylinder need to be had, and if the Master Cylinder were installed, it would be in the way.

Got the Right Front Wheel Cylinder ordered. Will pick it up tomorrow morning. Will also get new Cotter Pins, and Wheel Bearing Grease Cups.

Also, decided that it was time to get Lorrie's Rear Wheels off the ground with the Axles sitting on NEW Jack Stands. Spent some time UNDER Lorrie looking at how best to jack her up. Finally decided that jacking up the Right Rear Axle and setting in on a Jack Stand would be the way to start. Alas, the little 2 Ton Floor Jack is NOT up to the job. Not only is it too short when fully extended, it is also leaking down quite badly. Afraid it is SHOT! Will get a NEW Jack tomorrow if it doesn't rain. Needed a bigger Jack anyway.

Also, another reason that the little Floor Jack was not up to the task is because there were two 80 lb sacks of cement stored in Lorrie's Cargo Hold, along with about 80 lbs of lead lined foam rubber Insulation, courtesy of the crane company at which I used to work. They used to have a nice light foam rubber with a vinyl face on it that was padding for the crane cab. I asked them if I could get a piece of that. They said "Sure.", and told one of the workers to put a piece in Lorrie for me. Got home and discovered that the guy had put a piece of the stuff that had a lead lining on it. It has been sitting in Lorrie for a long time. There was also the 12V Battery that came out of Ms. American and will be installed in Lorrie soon. So all in all, took out about 300 lbs of stuff to lighten the load on the Rear Axle.

None-the-less, it became time to clean all that stuff out of Lorrie's Cargo Hold. The concrete had gone solid, so it was just taken out and put just off the side of the Driveway. The lead lined insulation is covering the fire wood pile. And the Battery was put up in the front part of the Cargo Hold.

BTW, am planning on putting Hurculiner Bed Liner on Lorrie's floor. That ought to be a sight!

With all that done, I was right at the edge of over-doing it. So picked up all the tools, and closed Lorrie up, came in, cleaned up, and wrote this update.

More updates when progress is made.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#13 Old 11-10-2009, 05:17 PM
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Hey All,
Tuesday Evening Update:

Lorrie's Right Front Brake Assembly is finished. Better than it was because the Cotter Pins that were in both Assemblies were smaller than they were supposed to be. The ones that got put in fit the hole better, and are a bit heftier.

The installation went flawlessly. Lorrie is SO cooperative!

JC

PS: didn't get the Rear Axle off the ground yet. Will start that tomorrow morning.

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#14 Old 11-10-2009, 06:15 PM
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sounds like things are working out

nice !

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#15 Old 11-10-2009, 07:14 PM
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sounds like things are working out
nice !
Hey Mr. RM,
Was out and about this morning to get the NEW Front Wheel Cylinder, two Cotter Pins, and a couple of Grease Caps.

Inquired at the NAPA about Hydraulic Jacks. They didn't have any, nor did the Hardware Store, but found a lonely little 8 Ton unit at the local Pawn Shop for $10.00. So it has now found a good home, and a couple of nice cars that will find it uplifting.

Will be using it to start working on the Rear Brake System in the morning.

Spent some time UNDER Lorrie yesterday looking at how best to approach the lifting of her Rear Axle while her Front End is on Jack Stands.

The Rear Axle only has to come up far enough to get the Tire off the ground. Don't think that it will be a problem, but will do it carefully just in case it looks like it's going to get iffy.

Anyway, if the weather holds, and barring any unforeseen circumstances, will probably have the Rear Brakes done by the beginning of next week.

Then can go ahead and install the NEW Master Cylinder and get it all hooked up, and then will come the bleeding, and testing to see if the hoses are going to hold up.

Once the Brakes are done, will turn to getting the Engine back up and running.

Have the freshly rebuilt Holley 1920 Carburetor to install, some wiring to figure out, a Battery to install, a Radiator to install and to which will hook up to the Engine and Transmission, and then it will be time to see if Lorrie will awaken.

Isn't this FUN?

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#16 Old 11-10-2009, 07:27 PM
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I'm enjoying hearing about the build up

thanks for the updates

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#17 Old 11-10-2009, 08:15 PM
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I'm enjoying hearing about the build up. thanks for the updates
Hey Mr. RM,
Will be doing some JPGs of the progress soon. I'm assuming that DodgeTalk will accept PhotoBucket?

Anyway, it's time for me to have some dinner and then go to sleep. I'm seventy years old, and what I used to do all day now takes all day to do.

As Apollo Creed told Rocky Balboa: "It's too bad we have to get old!"

Hang in there.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#18 Old 11-10-2009, 08:35 PM
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sure no problem

or you can just upload them here !

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#19 Old 11-11-2009, 12:46 PM
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sure no problem or you can just upload them here !
Hey Mr. RM,
Here is the Wednesday Update with the first JPGs to be posted here on DodgeTalk.

Used the NEW 8 ton Jack to lift Lorrie's Rear Wheels off the ground, then removed them. Here is a JPG of Lorrie sitting completely and quite firmly on the NEW Jack Stands. Getting her up off the ground was a breeze for this NEW Jack.



After taking off the Right Rear Brake Drum, this is what the Brake Assembly looks like as it sits prior to any work being done on it. Am going to have to remove the Right Rear Axle to put a NEW Seal in it as it was leaking Differential Lubricant when she was parked in 1996. Have never done any work on a Dodge Rear Axle before, so this will be a new experience.



This is the Right Rear Brake Drum BEFORE cleaning with a Wire Brush Wheel in a Drill.



This is the Right Rear Brake Drum AFTER cleaning with a Wire Brush Wheel in a Drill.



This is the Right Rear Brake Drum AFTER an application of Ospho (Phosphorotic Acid). It will get two more applications before being painted Semi-Gloss Black.



This JPG shows the inside of the Drum with the Channel cleaned. The Channel was first cleaned out with the Wire Brush Wheel, then given an application of Brakleen, and wiped clean.



Am awaiting the drying of the first coat of Ospho so that it can be given a second, and third coat.

It has been a good morning.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#20 Old 11-11-2009, 02:12 PM
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That's a beast. I expected it would have 8 lug wheels due to the weight/cargo capacity.
Does it have an 8-3/4" rear axle? (They look similar to a ford 9" with a dropout pumpkin.)

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