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DODGEBOY89
 
  408 stroker - Posted: 04-09-2009, 10:55 AM
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Post #1

wanting to do a 408 stroker in my truck. i would like some more info about this before i start spending a bunch of money. any thoughts, comments and help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Jake

I will be putting this motor in the truck in my sig
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-10-2009, 01:23 PM
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Post #2

Sounds like a cool project! Obviously, you are going to use your 5.9 right? Is this a Magnum? Or is it an LA block? There is a difference as far as how you want to oil the valvetrain. The maggies use pushrod oiling, the LA block. The maggies have .020 shorter deck height than the LA's 9.600 deck. The first thing to do is to make sure the block is sound. By that I mean to have it sonic checked before you bore the cylinder walls. This MUST be done! No sense in spending hundreds or possibly thousands only to have the cylinder walls split at the power level you are comtemplating. If the block checks out with enough 'meat' at the thrust locations after boring/honing, then it's time to machine it for a precision build. I would align hone the main caps to provide a .002-.0025 oil bearing clearance for both the mains and the rods. Studs should be considered mandatory at this power level and a girdle wouldnt hurt. The small block Chrysler is not a deep skirt block like the big blocks, so all the main cap reinforcement will help secure the long arm crank which is at 4.00. The MoPar perf. or eagle cast cranks are fine but for real strength the forged 4340 cranks arent that much more. I would look at stroker kits with pistons, pins, rings, bearings, and crankshaft&Rods as a kit. Before the block is honed to the proper piston clearance the machinist must have the pistons honed to the block. This then poses a problem. Some guys get the machine work done then buy the stroker kit and put the pistons in. This isnt the correct way to do it. Some get by no problems, some have major problems. If I were you I would look for a reputable machine shop that has Chrysler experience. www.musclemotorsracing.com is an excellent place for machine work so is www.BestMachineracing.com Then after discussing your plans with your machinist I would proceed.

Last edited by threetwos : 04-10-2009 at 01:31 PM.
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lilredhunter
 
 Posted: 04-12-2009, 11:13 PM
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If you are using a maggie then here are some ideas for you. I would opt for the cast-steel 4" stroke crank. They run around $260. I would lean towards the 360 crank, since 360 cores are still easy pickings and come with a standard bore of 4 inches, yielding 408 cubes of Mopar muscle with the stroker crank and a 0.030-inch overbore. I think the block deck height is 9.6 inches. Mopar Performance has a 4-inch-stroke replacement crank. It should be low-rpm torque brute. I would consider lightweight forged stroker flattops with a factory pin diameter of 0.9842 inch. If you use long 6.123-inch rods it should give you around reasonable rod ratio of 1.53:1. I think the W-2 iron performance heads woulf fit as well. If I am wrong please correct me. The W-2 has raised exhaust ports and a spread bolt pattern would make it easy to put long big tube headers. I think the W-2 has the standard 70cc production-style open chamber. but porting work, shoould yield 75 ccs for a compression ratio of 10.4:1. Milling the heads can bring the ratio near 12:1 with the same flattop pistons. All this with a small cam should make around 580hp at the crank. BTW spend the extra change and have the crank totally balanced. If I am wrong on the parts please speak up. I am still learning with the newer engines.
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DODGEBOY89
 
 Posted: 04-13-2009, 10:20 AM
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Post #4

hey guys. sorry it took me so long to reply. i should have mentioned this earlier but i didnt so here it is, it is an LA block. my plan was to use this block. the heads i plan on using are swirl port heads which i have been told would be awesome heads to use.
once again any info will be helpful
thanks,
Jake
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-13-2009, 10:38 AM
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Post #5

318 swirl ports 85-86?
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DODGEBOY89
 
 Posted: 04-13-2009, 07:46 PM
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Post #6

360 swirl ports machined for bigger valves
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MIRADAMEGACAB
 
 Posted: 04-13-2009, 08:26 PM
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Post #7

Carillo K-1 crank and rods can be had with chevy rod and piston pin diamensions. I used a 3.79 stroke crank, 6.125 rods and off the shelf Diamond 2618 forged pistons 4.030 from a chevy. This netted 387 cubes. Use full groove main bearings for constant oil feed to rods. Two set of main bearings are needed.
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-14-2009, 08:31 AM
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Post #8

All that for a measley 27 cubes? I dont think the 360 Heads will flow enough plus the antiquated open chamber will force you to use domed pistons which is an old less efficient design adds weight and reduces burn efficiency. If you use any factory heads the only heads to consider are the newer Magnums. With some slight bowl and gasket matching, you can flow around 220 CFM. With backcut valves, pushrod pinch slightly tapered you can flow 230, the heads are readily available, just make sure the exhaust seats are ok on used ones and not cracked. This is the kind of flow you need with 408+ cubes. More if you use a 4.100 crank, 6.00 rods, 4.030 bore and custom pistons,(426 cubes). We just finished up porting&flowing a set of used Magnums from the junkyard, they werent 'cherry picked'.. We put em on the FlowBench a SuperFlow 6010 Pro Bench and they flowed 200 CFM I @.600 lift after some very mild porting, gasket matching, some bowl work under the seat, removing the bowl restriction, tapered cut on the pushrod pinch point, new 3 angled valve job, they flowed over 230 CFM with excellent flow balance and velocity,(this is key), and enough to support 460 H.P.
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MIRADAMEGACAB
 
 Posted: 04-14-2009, 12:39 PM
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Post #9

Eddie, the pistons have a -30cc dish and using Edelbrock heads the comp ratio will be 8.5 to 1. The 27 extra cubes come at no cost as the crank is forged and inexpensive. Im going to run a 8-71 blower and a small shot of N20. 387ci with 8 psi and 100 shot will make for a fun ride.
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-14-2009, 04:15 PM
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Post #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIRADAMEGACAB View Post
Eddie, the pistons have a -30cc dish and using Edelbrock heads the comp ratio will be 8.5 to 1. The 27 extra cubes come at no cost as the crank is forged and inexpensive. Im going to run a 8-71 blower and a small shot of N20. 387ci with 8 psi and 100 shot will make for a fun ride.
Cool, for your application and that blower it will be a cool fun ride and your build plan makes sense to me But for his truck engine normally aspirated and in need of as much torque as he can get, a 408 stroker with either crankshaft selection, forged or cast, with 500 ft. lbs. available or therabouts, he'll have a nice torquey engine with big block power. This is why i recommend the 4'' crank with 360 mains, 6.123 rods, flat tops wirth zero deck or close to zero, 9.8 to say 10:5 with alloy heads, or 9:8 with cast iron and quench closed chambers like the maggies 65 CC and a little bowl work and you'll have a nice sweet running truck plant with a flat torque curve but still have enough oats to make 450-500 H.P. depending on cam selection, and finish it off with a Air Gap eds manifold and Holley Truck Avenger 770. 1 5/8 headers into 3 " collectors and dual exhaust or big Y pipe into 3 1/2 single should do the trick
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DODGEBOY89
 
 Posted: 04-15-2009, 02:30 PM
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Post #11

i think somewhere i have a set of 318 swirl port heads layin around. would they be better than the 360 swirl ports? or would it just be better to put some magnum heads on it? i just really didnt want to have to go out and buy some. and i do plan on buttoning it up with a set of headers with a full 3 inch dual exhaust with flowmasters. i think i am going to run a demon carb. or i can throw on the barry grant i have at the house and really suck the fuel down (950 cfm)
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-15-2009, 03:36 PM
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Post #12

NO! The 318 heads dont even have enough airflow for a healthy 360. The 318 swirl ports have 1 advantage only. Their 'superior combustion chamber which is a heart shaped closed chamber, able to build an easy zero deck fairly high comp. ratio with it for 318 only. The 360's bore is 4.00 the 318 3.91 this shrouds the 360's bore causing a lack of airflow into the cylinder, especially on the intake side. With 400-408 cubes to feed you'll need the airflow that a set of Maggie heads can give. Also the maggie head has much more flow than any LA head, closed double quench small chambers, bigger valves, but they do oil through the pushrods due to the fact they have ganged rockers or pedastel mount, ball&trunion rockers, and will make a better power band than the LA heads, and a superior flow balance of around 65%-75% this helps produce a flat torque band, instaed of a 'peaky' power curve. I think at least 200-250 CFM which the maggies will produce, the Engine Quest Australian Magnums are the best iron head out there and will reportedly flow around 220 stock. The edlebrock maggies are also nice if the budget allows and takes off 40 lbs. off the nose, and will allow a full point more compression than the iron heads. But I think the LA heads are a bad choice due to the small runner volume, open chambers in the 360's, heavier valves by 40 grams a piece which reduces rev potential ect
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DODGEBOY89
 
 Posted: 04-16-2009, 10:30 AM
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Post #13

well i think i will hunt down a set of magnum heads then. that sounds like the way to go. would i have to run different lifters and push rods to use the magnum heads? i dont know that i want to run much more than 9.5:1 compression since i still want to be able to run pump gas. (NO ETHANOL). do you think i should use my block? i have heard people say you should use a pre-74 block but i dont see why you need to. i think the only difference is that the cylinder walls may be a little thicker on the older blocks. also should i build a roller motor with a roller cam or should i just build a motor with a hydraulic cam?
Thanks,
Jake
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-16-2009, 03:42 PM
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Post #14

With the maggies small closed chamber, KB Pistons has a nice assortment of stroker combo pistons to use for your build. They are street friendly cause they have an alloy of alluminum and silicone thats tough, but fits very tightly in the bore to prevent oil blowby from loose fitting forged pistons, are stable at high temps, will withstand small shots of nitrous,(50-100 H.).) Max, your block will be fine but I would have it sonic checked before any machining is done and magged for cracks. The sonic check will reveal the cylinder bore thickness and any core shift, the mag check will reveal any cracks along the cam bore and main webbing. The stock smallblock is OK to around 550-600 H.P. after that it's time to step up to a 5 bolt block,(smallblocks only have 4 bolts around each cylinder, magnum or LA production blocks, not counting the ultra-rare Trans Am block 340 6 pak block), www.kb-silvolite.com and stroker kits can be had at www.manciniracing.com
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DODGEBOY89
 
 Posted: 04-17-2009, 10:13 AM
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Post #15

the stroker kit from mancini racing comes with diamond forged pistons. could i use these pistons since the kit already comes with them? also what am i going to have to run for lifters and rods to make the magnum heads work on my block?
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-17-2009, 11:48 AM
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Post #16

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODGEBOY89 View Post
the stroker kit from mancini racing comes with diamond forged pistons. could i use these pistons since the kit already comes with them? also what am i going to have to run for lifters and rods to make the magnum heads work on my block?
For a cam shaft you can use a regular flat tappet cam with AMC style lifters that oil through to the pushrods. Of course the pushrods will have to be oil-through, no problem for any of this. If you want to spend the extra coin, a retro-fit hydraulic roller is the way to go. It will hold the valve open much longer and can have a much braoder grind done to the lobe to increase performance. They cost a bit more money but the benefits outweigh the cost and potential for disaster when using a flat tappet cam from cam lobe wipeout, a very common problem!!. You can use off-the shelf oil due to the roller wheel not needing the extra Zinc or ZDDP additive that flat tappets MUST have in order to survive long term street usage. MoPar perf. makes a conversion kit as does Mancini that includes cam lifters pushrods ect..The pushrods will be a bit longer than the non-magnum if flat tappet is used, shorter if hyd. roller is used. The lifter bodies are much longer for the hyd. roller which is why the length difference is present. Yes, you can use the pistons but as I said I would sonic check the block. MoPar smallblocks unfortunately arent the thickest cylinder wall block. Sure they can make great power but, if there is a thin spot or core shift a sonic check will show it. If you get pistons for a .030 overbore and sonic check the block and it shows that only a .020 overbore is recommended by the machinist, then you might be doing something that you regret later. The block should have at least .120 in the thrust regions uniformley spread across the thrust area. Thicker is better but sometimes we have what we have to work with. Some blocks have shown less than .100 is some areas and due to core shift it wouldnt be a good candidiate for performance work. remember you are going to increase the bore and lengthen the stroke. This places way more stress on the main webbing, and with only 4 bolts around the combustion chamber, a thick dick and all the support you can use are whats needed here. Some racers use a girdle and 1 is offered by Mancini to aid in spreading the loads in stroker apps.
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MIRADAMEGACAB
 
 Posted: 04-17-2009, 08:56 PM
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Post #17

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Originally Posted by threetwos View Post
For a thick dick and loads


Eddie, Koffels Place had a green Duster featured in Mopar Muscle Magazine quite some time ago and the engine was a Mopar small block with a chevy intake manifold installed using adapter plates. Where can I get those adapters? Thanks
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threetwos
 
 Posted: 04-17-2009, 09:31 PM
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Post #18

Whoops, I meant thick deck! You all believe me dont you! LOL Anyways, I remember that car well. it ran in the low 8's and had a Scott Koffel built Brodix Headed stroker R-3 block with around 422 cubes, 16:1 Comp ratio Roller cam with around .850 lift ect and yes it had a Nascar Chevy Intake for the 'line of sight advantage of each throttle bore being as close to the intake valve in a straight line as can be, it also had huge intake runners and a large plenum volume. With Nitrous he was making some very fast times. Tony Marculiwesz's car I think was the guy's name. He finally stepped up to Koffel Phoenix Big Block power with B-1 Heads and Nitrous and around 600+cubes but not too sure about that.. The man you need to see is a man I have never met but his website is very impressive., and he specialises in Mopar Small blocks and competition engines. He has vast experience with R blocks and W series heads. He has even done some prototype Lemans engines when Chrysler was 'taking em' all down at Lemans in the GT-2 class and had some rspectable sowings in the prototype class with W-9 heads and R-3 block, www.shadydellspeedshop.com Ryan J is the guys name. If anyone would make those spacers for you it would be him, why may I ask do you want them? Another MoPar 'Legend' is Joey Arrington's shop www.arringtonengines.com
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MIRADAMEGACAB
 
 Posted: 04-17-2009, 09:59 PM
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Post #19

Eddie Thanks thats the car, youre good!!
Blower manifolds for sb Mopars are 1275.00 and are hacked up Offenhauser dual quad intakes with a blower plate welded on. These are 6.5 to 7 inches tall and arent pretty. The chevy intake ports are on the same spacing as a Mopar sb, a valley tray would be used. I got a Weiand tunnel ram for a Mopar, but there is not a common plenum for the front, rear carbs so thats no good. I got a sb chevy 6-71 intake for 175. and it seems easy to do the adapters as Ive tryed E-bay and swap meets for a Mopar blower intake but the blower plate is way too high or set back too far and will cause distributor clearance issues, crank trigger is a no go for me.
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MIRADAMEGACAB
 
 Posted: 04-17-2009, 10:24 PM
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Post #20

Mike Kuhl from Kuhl superchargers had a sb Mopar intake sitting on their shelf for years and wanted 200 for it, but Kuhl is out of business.
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