Kenny's Viper Update

This new thread is to document the findings of others and my new tuner as my Viper is being brought up to the performance level I originally expected. My purpose here is not to bash anyone, only present the truth and let each member of the Viper community draw their own conclusion regarding the quality of the build I received for my 28K.

If you have a problem with this subject, feel free to avoid the thread and use the tuner of your choice. I'm not here to argue, the pictures speak largely for themselves.

Just was looking at the pictures in the other thread. Just completely unbelievable to play with safety like that. That is all I have to see.

The first 2 photos show parts of my $3,500 Fuel System Upgrade. The first photo shows the fuel pump bolted to the frame of my car inches away from the driveshaft and the fuel line running inches away parallel to the driveshaft that did not have any safety loops around it. The second photo shows silver duct tape holding the fuel lines together. The connection was easily found because the duct tape was not even trimmed.

The 3rd photo shows the incorrect reach spark plug my former tuner put in my $6,500 Jeff Morys Striker heads compared to the spark plugs that came with the heads and Jeff Morys told my former tuner to use with the heads.

Please note the RED 2nd paragraph (Red added by me) below indicating Larry Macedo deliberately put in the wrong spark plugs. Also see Underground Racing's expert opinion of what putting the wrong spark plugs does to an engine further below.

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Larry Macedo

VCA Member


Reged: 08/18/02
Posts: 1077
Loc: Orlando, FL
Re: Kennys Viper progress?

#803232 - 03/15/07 03:26 PM


Holy Hannah! I didn't use the spark plug recommended by the manufacturer and still produced 766/748rwhp and 848/832rwtq. Good Night! That means had I used the spark plug recommended by the manufacturer, we would have shattered the world record for a Roe that we already established... Arghhh! The irony of it all!

We originally used the VEC2 and Iridium plug, but surpassed those dyno numbers with the AEM and the plugs we chose.

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Larry Macedo
Macedo Motorsports
407.246.6511 Office
407.970.3463 Cell
www.macedomotorsports.com

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Those are not at all the correct plugs or even acceptable plugs to use in that application PERIOD. We have installed and use many of these Striker Heads from JM and they have worked perfect with NO tuning issues. For those of you who are wondering about using the plugs Kenny had installed in his STRIKER heads here is something to consider. Intake ports, combustion chambers, piston tops, and spark plugs are all designed together as a system to ensure good combustion. If one of the elements of the systems is changed, then the combustion system cannot function properly. In this case, installing a 3/4" reach plug in a combustion chamber designed to use a 1" plug leaves the spark plug electrode gap sitting in the spark plug hole, whereas the combustion chamber has been designed to have the spark plug electrodes protruding into the chamber. A hole is not a good place to initiate combustion, so the initial flame propagation (if the plug is able to light the mixture at all) will be sluggish. Sluggish burn rates will have the effect of retarding the combustion phasing relative to the piston motion, and increase the variability in combustion from cycle to cycle. Increased combustion variability will manifest itself in a vehicle as an engine that idles rough, perhaps has trouble starting, and doesn't make as much power as it would otherwise be capable of making. To summarize, a spark plug with shorter reach than the cylinder head is designed for will leave the spark plug gap in a hole, combustion quality will suffer greatly, and the engine will run poorly. The easiest solution here is to simply install the correct spark plug and reap the combustion benefits. Refer to the pictures to observe what I am talking about. I would *NOT* put the correct plugs in this car and try to drive it on it's present tune. Please see pictures below as one shows the 3/4 plug that is in Kenny's Striker Heads and the other pictures show the CORRECT plug that is supposed to be in Kenny's heads!




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Underground Racing

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You cannot run a spark plug like this. The leading edge of the spark plug hole becomes a glow plug and causes preignition. I've seen heads where the plug was recessed like this and the there was evidence of the edge of the hole starting to melt.



Greg Good Cylinder Heads

glad to hear things are working out for you

congrats

Well at least it is now Being looked over by another tuner Kenny. I hope you have the car back to enjoy soon.

Pictures speak a thousand words, Kenny. There is absolutely NO way that these can be misinterpreted. M2 did an awful and careless job on your car, as evidenced here. Congrats on finding a reputable and trustworthy tuner, after all you have been through.

The 2 3/8" Roe supercharger pulley is 12 pounds boost, and that's what Macedo put on mine and the David Weaver crank pulley together which spins it much faster than the 21,000 RPM absolute upper limit for the Roe supercharger and it cost me $850.00 to get my Roe supercharger fixed. The 10 pound Roe pulley is the maximum that should be used with the David Weaver Pulley. No wonder the bearings in my Roe supercharger were going out. A 12# Roe pulley + Weaver pulley is over 22k rpms at 6,000 engine RPM.

This is intelligent as deliberately putting the wrong reach short spark plugs in my engine.

This is the port matching job Larry charged me $800.00 to do and as the pictures show... Pictures shows it all on the restriction that the air traveling through the lower intake runner encountered as it tried to pass through the head.

To whom it may concern,
On March 2, 2007 Ken Katowik came to us to have his Viper Dyno tested for H.P. Torque and Air/Fuel Ratio checked.We ran the car and got the following results indicated on the graphs which are showing the car runs too rich the A/F trace is off our scale and the pipes are black.Mr Katowik had us clearance the Roll Bar mount on the LHS so as not to damage his seat back as it was touching.
This is a statement of what we observed and does not point blame it simply means the car seems to run to rich.Please also note we had trouble with the tach signal and that is why the runs are in MPH
Thanks
Steve Colletti

insane

The next day after going to Colletti's dyno I went to another dyno to verify the results with a different dyno test testing my Viper as Larry Macedo delivered it to me with only a new battery installed and using 93 octane. The console covering the transmission did have a small non-photogarhable crack in it before going to Macedo in November 2005 and was about an inch long, but when my Viper was delivered to me July 1, 2006 the crack had become several cracks and was easily visible and felt.

In a message dated 3/19/2007 8:40:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jeff@precision-autosports.com writes:

‘Mr. Katowik brought his 2002 Dodge Viper GTS to the shop to have a few Dyno pulls performed. We performed 3 Dyno pulls monitoring boost, air/fuel, and rpm. The vehicle fired up fine, idled fine and seemed to have the appropriate air/fuel (14.7:1) while driving. The Dyno pull was started around 2000 rpm and ran to 5500 rpm. The boost was 13.4 lbs. The air/fuel started out at 11.69:1 and dropped to 10.21:1 by 5500. Way too rich to make optimum power. Fuel economy will suffer as well. The tune could be optimized. Moving to the interior, the center console support structure was cracked. The driver seat cover was cut and the plastic interior piece on the side of the driver seat by the roll bar was scratched. The roll bar was unsafe as the rear crossover bar was too close to the head of the occupants. Overall, the install looked complete. However, there were a few issues as described previously.’

Larry Macedo's own dyno test is quite a bit high in his numbers - by 90+ rear wheel horsepower using the same 93 octane gasoline. He also dyno tested using 100 octane unleaded race gasoline and got even higher numbers, but all of my local dyno tests were done with 93 octane and as Larry delivered the car to me (except I had to buy a new battery since my battery died after sitting 5 months not on a battery tender and being exposed to 24 degree weather for less than 24 hours) and the way I would be driving it with no "tricks" to achieve high numbers that don't exist in the real world.

Underground Racing did a 3rd dyno test and was able to get around 650 rear wheel horsepower, which agrees with the 2 local dyno tests but verifies Larry's dyno test is not valid for my car as he delivered it to me.

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Re: Kennys Viper progress? [Re: mad0953]
#803232 - 03/15/07 03:26 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Holy Hannah! I didn't use the spark plug recommended by the manufacturer and still produced 766/748rwhp and 848/832rwtq. Good Night! That means had I used the spark plug recommended by the manufacturer, we would have shattered the world record for a Roe that we already established... Arghhh! The irony of it all!

We originally used the VEC2 and Iridium plug, but surpassed those dyno numbers with the AEM and the plugs we chose.

--------------------

Larry Macedo
Macedo Motorsports
407.246.6511 Office
407.970.3463 Cell
Macedo Motorsports - High Performance products & service for your Viper, Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari, Hummer, Hemi Ram & more!!!

BTW - The Transmission console is an $800 part.

Originally Posted by SUN RA KAT

This is the port matching job Larry charged me $800.00 to do and as the pictures show... Pictures shows it all on the restriction that the air traveling through the lower intake runner encountered as it tried to pass through the head.

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It almost seems that the lower intake runner was radiused by "guessing" are you sure it was "matched and not just templated? Those power numbers are unreal! Cant wait to see what it will run when A/F ratio is optimized, plugs indexed, boost and fuel curve spot on! Good Luck with the cracked center console,(800.00 ouch!), careful man, your'e SRT-10 parts are getting close to my N.O.S., yikes!

Originally Posted by threetwos

It almost seems that the lower intake runner was radiused by "guessing" are you sure it was "matched and not just templated? Those power numbers are unreal! Cant wait to see what it will run when A/F ratio is optimized, plugs indexed, boost and fuel curve spot on! Good Luck with the cracked center console,(800.00 ouch!), careful man, your'e SRT-10 parts are getting close to my N.O.S., yikes!

Click on the attachment to make it big so you can read it and see the line up near the top of the first page where it says Port Match Intake Manifold $800.00 (there are 3 pages and you can scroll down to see all of them).

And he even charges you 34.50 $ for gas on a 28 000$ engine job!

Originally Posted by sca

And he even charges you 34.50 $ for gas on a 28 000$ engine job!

lol hope you get it right kenny 28k dam that hurts

I see he charged you the 800.00 for the port match job. Hope it exceeds all you're expectations someday as I'm sure it will. And I hope you get a great Tuner to assist you in your pursuit. You're car is unbelievable Kenny!!