2.7 problems

Can anyone offer any info on 2.7's in late model Intrepids. I understand that there are many engines checking out with less than 80000 miles. Has Dodge responded to this problem in any way?

Well, I'm a first time poster, but I guess I will offer my personal tidbit of info. My '99 Intrepid has less than 68000 miles on it, and its already cost me over $5000 to repair in the last 2.5 years. The last repair was for the PCM, which cost me over $700 (and later I found out that Chrysler warranties the PCM as part of the emissions system for 80,000 miles...I was mad to say the least). When it went, it left me stranded at work for a whole weekend (good thing I work in a private EMS company and the supervisor was kind enough for me to run home in the ambulance while on duty to take a shower). It spend 2 weeks in the shop. 16 days before that, the starter, cooling fan, and AC died on me. That cost just under $1500 to fix. According to the owner of the shop, the cooling fan died, then caused the AC system to become overpressured, and the evaporator cracked. Also, in the month before that, I had to have the transmission input and output speed sensor replaced, as well as the oil sending unit. Now, the car runs, but there is a noticeable amount of smoke from the tail pipe, and the electrical system seems to have voltage regulation problems, causing the ALL of the lights to flicker/dim. I suspect the engine is going to die. I just hope its after I graduate.

Sorry about the rant

Ghost

The wife has a 2000 with 70k. The only trouble has been both fans went out. At least not at the same time.

have your engine checked out for sludge build-up asap. it's a known problem, however chrysler isn't admitting it yet. most engines begin to have problems around 70,000 or so.

if your motors go from sludge build up, get a 3.2, it will cost you less to buy one than a 2.7 will and they will be more reliable. Supposedly they fixed the sludge issue on the 2001's and up in the 2.7

My 98 Intrepid went out with 80k on it and ended up buying a used one with 15k on it for $4500. Come to find out that the oil pick up tube is too small and that causes the top end not to get enough oil. Which in turn cause sludge to build up due to the parafin in the oil. My suggestion to you is to buy an engine that runs and install it and sell the car quickly. Recently my car was stolen and recovered. The thiefs ended up doing some considerable body damage and the insurance company totalled it and let me keep the car. The engine only has about 30k on it now. I will sell it for $2000 and that will come with all accessories like the a/c compressor, p/s pump, belts and all. Also will sell any other parts you need off of it. CHEAP! Email me at alan@sperr.org or call 256-430-9559 at night or 256-539-6513 during day if you are interested. My name is Alan Sperr.

PS Sorry about your problems but Chrysler is not taking responsibility for any of there design flaws so all intrepid owners must take it up the tail pipe.

I'd still go get a 3.2 or a 3.5 to put in it and keep the car. Plenty of people do it, it's not to bad to do it. The 2.7 L computer will run both a 3.2 and a 3.5, it will be cheaper than getting a 2.7. The 2.7's are more expensive beleive it or not. And with the 3.2 or 3.5 you'll have more power.

I have a 99 Intrepid and it has been an excellent car, I replaced two sensors on the Transmission, change the oil and filter and had the computer re flashed, best everyone do that, at 50K miles or so, now the 2.7 Engine, seems to be a lot of problems with that Engine failing, however, as I see it, the failure is not Engine Sludge , but rather a Timing Chain failure, it is uncommon for a Timing Chain to break, most often as they wear the gain Slack, and then silp a cog on a Gear, I am not certain as yet, but I suspect that maybe the Chain is not and has not been properly Lubricated from the time the car is first Driven, and therin lies the problem, people taking their car to the dealer, are I think Mislead, pointing to Sludge in the engine as the cause when it has nothing to do with the Timing Chain break, the Timing chain is not inside the Engine, If the Dealer makes you accept lack of maintenace is the cause, then its Your Problem, and many will see the Sludge and say ok, this is a Diversion from a built in Flaw, NO TIMING CHAIN LUBRICATION, prove that and its Chryslers Problem. Remember the Timing Chain is not inside the Engine. I am going to find out how that timing Chain is supposed to be lubricated, if anyone knows this, let us know.

Is this the problem with the 2.7

Chrysler 2.7L V-6 - Engine Sludge/Timing Chain Tensioner Failed/Loud Knocking Noises Heard

The problem is due to shoddy workmanship; specifically, aluminum flash is not cleaned off machined aluminum engine surfaces before the engine is assembled. This flash will eventually break off of the aluminum engine components, and will travel all throughout the engine via the oil supply system. Severity of engine problems due to this manufacturing defect depend on oil change schedules and oil filter change schedules. Severity could run from a severe knocking at certain engine RPMs, to jumped valve timing, to a complete and catastrophic engine seizure.

Aluminum flash will eventually break off of the aluminum engine parts. I've seen flash as coming from the cylinder heads, but the engine block is also suspect as it is also made out of aluminum. There is a good chance that the flash will come from the valve cover sealing surface, although it might also come from the machined oil galleries.


Approximate 1 inch section of Machined Valve Cover Sealing Surface that Aluminum Flash was Scraped Off


Aluminum Flash that was Scraped Off from Approximate 1 inch section of Machined Valve Cover Sealing Surface


The flash will then travel down into the oil pan, where it will eventually get sucked into the oil pump via the oil pickup tube. There is a screen on the inlet of the oil pickup tube that will catch most particles; however, small particles will get through. Depending on how badly the screen is plugged, suction may force larger particles to go through the screen and into the oil pump.


Oilpan After Removal, Showing Presence of Aluminum Flash

The flash will then be pumped through the oil pump rotors. At this point, the flash may either work its way into the oil pressure relief valve, or may pass on through to the oil filter. If the flash gets into the oil pressure relief valve, it will cause that valve to jam partially shut, removing overpressure protection from the engine components. This, in turn, may cause the timing chain tensioner o-ring to blow out into the oilpan, and cause a large oil leak to form out of the clearance between the timing chain tensioner and its socket in the right-hand cylinder head.

If the flash makes it to the oil filter, it may be stopped here. However, if the recommended "normal" oil change interval is followed according to the owner's manual, then it is very possible that enough flash will build up to cause the bypass in the oil filter to open. If this occurs, then the oil filter itself no longer provides protection, and aluminum flash will then go through the entire engine.

If this occurs, the flash will make it into the tight machined tolerances in the valve lash adjusters in the cylinder heads, will cause the valve lash adjusters to jam, and will cause valve knock from valve lash adjuster failure. Flash will also get into the bearing surfaces for the camshafts, and cause gouging of these surfaces.


Failed Primary Timing Chain Tensioner and Tensioner O-ring, Along with a Few Bits of Aluminum Flash

If the timing chain tensioner loses its o-ring, there will now be a large hole formed by the clearance between the tensioner body and its socket in the right-hand cylinder head. This will cause an abnormal oil flow path, and will cause system oil pressure to drop below normal. At idle for a normal warmed up engine, oil pressure should be around 5 psig. With the failure described due to a blown out tensioner o-ring, oil pressure at idle for a warmed up engine could well be zero psig.

If this occurs, then there will be little to no oil flow to other parts of the engine. At this point, it is important to realize that oil serves both as a lubricant and as a coolant. In those areas of the engine where low/no oil flow occurs, oil temperatures in these low/no flow areas will rise. Oil in these high temperature areas may heat up to the point where they will caramelize; that is, turn into sludge. This sludge will build up on the walls of the affected areas, and may well cause complete blockage of oil flow if enough sludge is formed.

If sludge builds up to this extent, then the engine components that were served by the blocked oil passages will fail. The most common component to fail here are connecting rod bearings. Piston rings may also experience oil starvation, and will eventually weld themselves to the cylinder walls. When this occurs, the engine will have permanently seized.

If any of these symptoms occur, the only way to fix the problem is to replace or completely rebuild the engine. There is no way to guarantee that all of the aluminum flash in the engine would be removed without doing either of these actions. Therefore, there is no guarantee that simply changing the timing chain tensioner, oil pump, and valve lash adjusters, will fix the problem.

A good preventive measure for peace of mind is to religiously change the oil every 3000 miles, and change the oil filter at these intervals. I highly recommend the use of fully synthetic oil, as it is more resistant to sludging due to overheating than normal oil is. Follow the "severe duty" schedule found in the owner's manual; do not rely on the "normal" schedule as very few cars actually qualify for this schedule. I would also recommend that an oil pressure gauge be installed. Do not rely on the oil pressure warning light, since if it lights up, it's too late to prevent engine seizure.

Our Intrepid, which had the oil changed on the correct timetable, checked out at 65,000 miles. This was about 6 months ago and we finally are able to dump the $6,000 into it to replace the faulty engine due to the sludge epidemic that Dodge is unwilling to acknowledge. Our family of 7 has done without a second car for 6 months and the guy at Customer Service basically told me I had a lot of nerve even calling after the car was past its warranty. I love the way that car handles, and it's gorgeous....I'd love to get another but it'll be my last because this thing has cost me more than a Mercedes to own once you figure in the repair, the rentals I've had to deal with in the meantime, the junker I had to pick up and use over the summer, etc. I've you've had problems, please make a lot of noise. The consumers shouldn't have to eat this problem.

My 99 Intrepid has 62K miles now, I am using Synthetic oil , it does not sludge, and I am thinking of handing the car down to my wife, as a second car, but think I will have the Timing chain replaced, etc, my intuition tells me this problem is lack of lubrication of the Timing Chain, and when it fails, the zero tolerance engine, parts collide, will let you know how this works out.
And if that 2.7 does fail, I am diffenetly going for the 3.2 change out, and thanks to the guy who posted that information on the Computer running both engines,

Thanks for the posts...you are making me feel a lot better about my purchase of an '01 with 50K. I bought it in Feb and already have put 25K on it. It still runs great and have had no problems so far. But, I guess I better ask Santa Clause for an engine swap.
I did buy the extended warranty on the drivetrain to 100K miles so if it happens, I hope it happens before then.
Keep the great information coming.

Does anyone have any further information on replacing the 2.7 with a 3.2/3.5? I read the note that the computers are the same. What about any of the other componants. My present 2.7 dosn't show signs of sludge but the oil pressure light comes on at idle. Any thoughts?

I am posting this for all Intrepid owners who have had to replace the engine do to Sludge. As you may know by my past postings I am a recent victim of the 2.7 Intrepid engine. I recalled our local new channel doing a story on this problem. I found the story on the new channels web site. I called the station and asked to talk to the reporter that did the story. Although I did not talk to her, the lady on the phone told me that the US Department of Transportation was taking reports on this. I called! After I got though the automated phone system, (you want to talk to a live rep.) I told the lady about my car and she asked if I wanted to file a complaint and I told her yes. She took my complaint and told me that she would mail it to me. I was to sign it and send it back. From there it would forwarded to the Department of Defects. I am urging ALL Intrepid users to do this. I am providing you the phone number for US Department of transportation. My hope is that if they get enough complaints maybe something can happen. PLEASE call: 1-888-327-4236. If you would like the link to my local television station story I would be glad to email it to you, Just email me at TLONG672@msn.com. Subject: Intrepid engine so I know you are not junk email. Thanks.

I wish someone who has experienced Engine failure would provide a complete explanation of what happen to the engine, or Dodge would be even better.

Does the Timing Chain break, is that the problem, or does the engine Sieze up. So far I am inclined to think its the Timing Chain, and I think maybe the dam thing gets no lubrication from the get go. or the lube to the Timing chain, gets blocked early on.

If it can be proven that the Timing chain is not getting lubed, from the time the car is in Warranty, its a latent defect and should be covered under warranty, in other words from day of discovery if the problem is concealed.

Someone of some group, needs to study, the Engine failure and Replacement of the engine in the Saturn, Vega, and other known lemons, how those cases were won. And GM forced to replace those faulty engines.

You can buy Intrepids real cheap because of this problem, I saw a 2002, for $6900 the other day, 45k miles, a hell of a deal, and low enough to buy an Extended Warranty, so what the hell , I might just do it, My 99 has been a great car so far, no problems. 64K miles now.

I have a 99 Intrepid with 81K on it. I have ZERO sludge and I do use SYNTHETIC oil. These engines run hotter that older engines and as a result they tend to cook the "Dinosaur" oil. The synthetice being a pure man made petroleum molicule deals with the heat much better. The flash issue plugging the oil passages is one way that the timing chain can break but i feel the real culprit is using less expensive conventional oil in your engine then driving the heck out of it and cooking it on to the hot internals. It seems that every engine that fails has sludge, and sludge is caused by oil getting too hot and cooking on to the components. IF flash is the culprit then it will be found in the oil passages. Always use a good name brand Synthetic oil and change it every 2000 miles and you should not have any lube issues pertaining to sludge. You also might try running a quart of Rislone in place of a quart of oil every 6 months or so as a preventative measure against any unwanted buildups inside the engine.

man, the 2.7L intrepids hate you, mines acting fine.(kinda)

Something is wrong with all these scenarios about Sludge, for sludge to form two things must be happening, one is never changing the oil, the other is the Engine getting so hot, and operating hot, the dam heat gage would pop out of the dash.

If Sludge is bad enough for some reason to fail the engine, which I doubt, it would not drain out on an oil change, certainly someone would notice the little oil that drained, and when 5 quarts of new oil was added, it would be over filled. The other thing is Oil pressure is measured by resistance at the Crank bearings, if oil is not getting to the bearings, the oil light would be on, something just does not add up about all this. Oil pump failure, or no lube on the timing chain sounds more reasonable to me.

Synthetic Oil- I see no reason to change Syn Oil every 2 or 3 thousand miles, when it is designed to last 20 thousand, change the Filter at 3 maybe, but there is no point in an oil change at 2000 with Syn oil. If flash or anything else gets into the oil, the damge is done,long before 2000 miles, or the filter will trap it and no damage will occur, and the filter is the only saftey feature for this.

If Engine Flash, is the problem here, I wish someone would prove it, because if it is present in a faliled engine, Chrysler is on the hook for the cost of repair.