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stev
 
  How to clean the O2 sensor - Is it possible? - Posted: 09-16-2006, 09:49 AM
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Post #1

Well, I tried a Google search on the very topic. There are some pros and cons to various methods all over the internet. However, I learned somethings doing this search. The Bosch O2 sensors have the best chance of being cleaned without being damaged or ruined.

Solvent Pro: It does not exceed temp of 850 degrees burning off the carbon buildup. Get a solvent that drys clean with no residue. Works good on the wires and breather air-port of the O2 sensor.
Solvent Con: must not leave a residue and must be O2 sensor safe. It can get messy.

Torch Pro: cleans off the caked on mess for really messed up O2 sensors.
Torch Con: if the O2 sensor exceeds a high temp, it's ruined. Avoid melting the wires.

Since the other fourm topic was about gas mileage, I've tuned-up and even cleaned the IAC. The IAC got me from 10 to 11.7mpg, but the van is amiss of getting above 12 or more mpg like it should.

Much thanks goes out to the people at the BMW and Volvo forums for some detailed information on how to clean the O2 sensor. I guess the price they pay for a new sensor is worth trying to clean the one they got first.

The first thing learned was, NEVER use any alcohol on the sensor. PERIOD.

Another thing was, NEVER use any anti-seize compond on the threads to re-install or install a new on since the sensor is chemical reaction based. The anti-seize compond will mess up (foul) the sensor.

The sensors have a "fresh-air" tube or port to them that sample the air and compares the exhaust gases. In some instances, if the port becomes clogged or dirty, the O2 sensor doesn't report a fault to the computer OBD system. The port is an open port on the sensor or the port is the tubing of the wire connector.

...

But before I state anything though, take this information at your own risk.

After doing research for cleaning O2 sensors, it seems that many of the other forums, from american cars to jap cars and even a audi/benz forums have found some solutions to clean the O2 sensors. Everyone seems to use CRC brand "QD electronic cleaner" for both O2 sensors and airflow sensors. it is a special cleaner that has NO RESIDUE in it so when it dries it dries 100% clean with no oils or etc as if it were brand new. For the airflow sensors they sprayed it from a safe distance (as far away as possible) in order to be careful b/c of the sensitive electronics (you don't want to powerblast the sensor close range). The O2 sensor they sprayed the outsides and insides with the same cleaner and saw great results: better gas mileage, better running car, all check engine / warning lights went away.

I see a lot of people on this forum replacing O2 sensors which can get very expensive. After reading up on these issues on other forums i have read horror stories where people replaced hundreds of $ worth of parts and when they cleaned the O2 sensor all their problems went away. One forum member said he has been using the same O2 sensor for over 6 years jus t simply cleaning it over and over again (as long as electrical components are still intact then it should continue to work).

I just thought i'd share this information with you guys so we don't keep have to replacing these expensive components. Again use this information at your own risk but for those of you who already have failing O2 sensors it might be worth it to give it a shot and see what the results are b/c you have nothing to lose, it worked for others so it may work for you as well.

inside is a chemical generator and a comparaitor of sorts. anti-sieze can't be burned off, so that is what would lead to the death of the sensor. It wouldn't be able to get anything in to read. You also have to be careful of where the O2 sensor gets its outside air supply for comparaison. If a hole on the outside (old school) then make sure that stays clean. If through the wire harness, then don't use any goop on the harness plug side of things. make sure the tube holder and cover area is clean as well.

Its the bits inside the O2 sensor that need to be clean of contaminants. Usually if the O2 heater is broken or the car is just really sooty with the exhaust, you can get a lot of *stuff* packed into the O2 and it won't be able to get it all out. If the sensor is indeed still good, just cleaning that stuff out would fix the problem.

*Note: people have tried this method in the BMW forums. Some with great success while others with mild improvements. One person reported no benefit at all.

...

What will damage my O2 sensor?

Home or professional auto repairs that have used silicone gasket
sealer that is not specifically labeled "Oxygen sensor safe",
"Sensor safe", or something similar, if used in an area that
is connected to the crankcase. This includes valve covers, oil
pan, or nearly any other gasket or seal that controls engine oil.
Leaded fuel will ruin the O2 sensor in a short time. If a car is
running rich over a long period, the sensor may become plugged up
or even destroyed. Just shorting out the sensor output wire will
not usually hurt the sensor. This simply grounds the output
voltage to zero. Once the wiring is repaired, the circuit
operates normally. Undercoating, antifreeze or oil on the
*outside* surface of the sensor can kill it. See how does an
Oxygen sensor work.

...

Here's some technical reading of the O2 sensor in laymen terms. http://www.kemparts.com/TechTalk/tt07.asp

...

A Ford Mustang technical website states this.

To check the sensors first disconnect and inspect the wiring, remove the sensors and clean them, don't use any type of chemicals to do this, the cleaning should be done by using a PROPANE TORCH, place the sensor tip inside the propane flame for a few seconds at a time until all contaminants get evaporated by the heat. Place the sensors back in place.

...

This seemed helpful to know that the fresh air part of the O2 sensor can get blocked or clogged.

http://www.car-stuff.com/chrysleroxygensensor.htm

If the sensor is blocked somehow, or it cannot heat up to complete the loop, the engine will begin to suffer from lousy fuel mileage, high emissions and weak power. Sometimes the exterior of the Chrysler oxygen sensor will become blocked with engine fluids, such as coolant, oil and corrosion. If cleaning your Chrysler oxygen sensors does not alleviate any problems, it is time to order a new set from our site and replace them.

...

Some things to note about O2 sensors that can damage them.

- The sensor contains a ceramic module and should not be subject to mechanical or thermal shock or it may be damaged. Thermal shock would occur if liquid drops of water were to contact the sensor.

- The sensor is not designed for operation on leaded fuels, doing so will shorten sensor life.

- Long term running in the rich region will shorten sensor life, running very rich will dramatically reduce sensor life.

- High exhaust temperatures (over 850 deg C, 1560 deg F) will shorten sensor life.

- Engine oil consumption at a rate greater than 1 quart per1,000 miles will shorten sensor life.

- It may be possible to "clean" sensors. This must be done before the sensor has completely failed.

- A good rule of thumb for sensor life is: A sensor will last about as long as your spark plugs. If your spark plugs are fouled by lead or very rich running, you sensor is likely to have failed also.

...

From the Toyota forums

Has anyone done this and had positive results?
Did you use throttle body cleaner?
Any points to give on the procedure? I'll check my Haynes manual for removal/installation.

I don't have a code or anything. I just thought that after the Seafoam treatment I'd make sure everything was as clean as possible (for being in an exhaust pipe).

I've done this a few times on my '85 4Runner 22re while messing with getting the TPS set correctly. I used a throttle body cleaner that specifically stated that it was safe for o2 sensors. I just pull the o2, hold it over a rag, put the tube into the body and start washing it out tapping it every so often to knock out hunks and gunk. You might be surprised how much comes out! It has been many months since I first did this and I haven't had any issues so far.

Past that.. I've had mixed results cleaning 'em, mostly good though, which means that I've gotten more life than normal out of them. And yes, TB cleaner would be the right thing to use.

Did you notice any change in MPG with cleaning the O2 sensor?

Yes, for the better. But it's more about the ECU being able to get a better read on what's going on. That will affect your mileage numbers, but also performance.

When you do this, it is a good time to pull the EFI fuse or the negative cable on your battery. I do the cable since I don't even have so much as a stereo in my old dog so I don't need to worry about losing any presets.
This will allow the ECU to reset and relearn from the new readings from the clean o2. It will definitely effect fuel economy IMO since if it is dirty it should tend to read lean which in turn will make the ECU crank up the fuel rate, which gets more carbon building up on the o2, which should result in the o2 reporting lean conditions, which makes the ECU crank up the fuel rate...you see how it can start spiralling downwards.

Cleaning the O2 sensor can be hit & miss. It's not a part that is _supposed_ to be able to handle solvents. The elements inside that react with the exhaust gases (and end up producing the voltage that the ECU needs) can become brittle. Throwing a solvent on them can hasten that process.

You'll know more about your results in this tankfull. If things turn out "bad", then as you spend the $90/$140, remember that you were on borrowed time anyway.
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Last edited by stev : 09-16-2006 at 09:57 AM.
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Chump
 
 Posted: 09-16-2006, 05:59 PM
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Post #2

Good thread! I will add a few more observations...
  • Use ONLY the thread sealer/compound that comes with the sensor or is already applied to the sensor from the factory.
  • If you clean the sensor, do not clean off the threads on the sensor if you don't have the correct thread compound to re-coat them. Anti-seize comes in many forms based on Nickel, Copper, Lead, Graphite, Silver and other elements. All are designed to do their job in the correct location.
  • Cleaning the sensor threads in the exhaust manifold or system will remove any thread compound that is already there. The gunk and cleaning fluid may contaminate other sensors downstream.
  • There are usually 2 types of sensors for sale...1 is the "OEM" type which has the correct length wires and are already crimped properly and professionally. The other type is the "Universal" type which you have to cut the wires and crimp. If you do not have the proper crimpers you may cause more harm than good. Spend the extra bucks and but the "OEM" style. I've been doing wiring for 30 years and I still buy the "OEM" style sensors and I have $2K worth of crimpers here at the house.
  • I Consider O2 sensors as a consumable product just like spark plugs and change them appropriately. Some are recommended to change at 60K and others at 100K, you can extend this time frame by doing the required tuneups and maintainance on your engine.
  • Sensor price...shop around! You are in no rush to replace the sensor so go into the places like Checker Auto Parts and others that "Will Beat Anybodys Price by 5%" I have done this using a cheap price at Autozone and Checker beat their price by 5 %. Shop the web also, just be aware of cheap prices and HIGH shipping charges! Bosch are the most widely available and are very good quality.
  • Last of all..do some proper diagnostics. Is it prudent to spend $400 on sensors and not $100 on a Factory Service Manual...how much did you pay for your NEW vehicle? Some systems have 4 sensors. With 2 near the engine and 2 at the catalytic convertor. Run the error codes on your vehicle and see which one is throwing the code. Don't just run out and replace the sensor, use logic. If the one that is behind the cat is throwing a code, 99% of the time it's not the sensor, it's the cat or the problem is further upstream. Start with the 2 engine sensors and look for codes and also has your engine been tuned lately? Small exhaust leaks may cause the sensor before the cat to show error codes or improperly operating air pump,etc. Voltage readings at idle may look good, this does not mean they are the same when you are on the road? I could list more things but you should get the picture.

Regards-Stevo
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stev
 
 Posted: 09-16-2006, 07:40 PM
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Post #3

Well, I hit the brick wall this afternoon. Those O2 sensors will not budge! I spanked them really good without stripping the 7/8 nut around them. In a few instances, I had a great clamping wrench on it and pushed with all of my might using my foot! It didn't even wince.

I've read under the Dodge truck forum here that one guy just tapped in another O2 sensor hole with threads near the old one, and put the new sensor there. He left the old one in, but disconnected the wires. I'm not sure if I'm that brave enough to do just that yet.

Chump, those are some good points too! I wonder if the OEM thread compound welds the O2 sensors to the exhast !!! ha-ha
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 Posted: 09-16-2006, 08:08 PM
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Post #4

For O2 sensors I have a ratcheting 1/2" breaker bar.
These things have been known to strip threads out though. Penetrating oil on it for a few days might help.
If you can get a six sided wrench on it, it might be worth it too.
I would say to plan on the new one.
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stev
 
 Posted: 09-16-2006, 08:42 PM
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Post #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsmagnum
For O2 sensors I have a ratcheting 1/2" breaker bar.
These things have been known to strip threads out though. Penetrating oil on it for a few days might help.
If you can get a six sided wrench on it, it might be worth it too.
I would say to plan on the new one.
I figure a new one or two will be the route to go. I may have to pay a shop to remove the old ones and install the new ones.
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Chump
 
 Posted: 09-16-2006, 11:21 PM
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Post #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by stev
Well, I hit the brick wall this afternoon. Those O2 sensors will not budge! I spanked them really good without stripping the 7/8 nut around them. In a few instances, I had a great clamping wrench on it and pushed with all of my might using my foot! It didn't even wince.

I've read under the Dodge truck forum here that one guy just tapped in another O2 sensor hole with threads near the old one, and put the new sensor there. He left the old one in, but disconnected the wires. I'm not sure if I'm that brave enough to do just that yet.

Chump, those are some good points too! I wonder if the OEM thread compound welds the O2 sensors to the exhast !!! ha-ha

Ha-Ha!
Well, were they ice cold when you tried this? Being careful try them when they are warm or hot. As I indicated earlier, I tend to stay away from the rust breakers here like PB Blaster but....
Could maybe try the hot/cold routine...heat the engine up to operating temp so that the sensors are nice and warm, then try to get some ice cold water or a freeze spray on the hex nut portion of the sensor, this may shrink the threads just enough to bust it loose?
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stev
 
 Posted: 09-17-2006, 10:34 AM
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Post #7

Chump,

They are not rusted in at all. Sure the exhaust pipe has little surface rust, but that's it. Those O2's are in there really good.

I'll give the hot/cold method a try before getting soaked at a shop.

Stev
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Chump
 
 Posted: 09-17-2006, 04:24 PM
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Post #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by stev
Chump,

They are not rusted in at all. Sure the exhaust pipe has little surface rust, but that's it. Those O2's are in there really good.

I'll give the hot/cold method a try before getting soaked at a shop.

Stev
Sorry, I really meant seized.
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B-300
 
 Posted: 09-18-2006, 02:30 PM
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Post #9

I heard that coolant (Anti-freeze, glycol) would also contaminat O2 sensors. Has anyone else heard this?
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stev
 
 Posted: 09-18-2006, 08:05 PM
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Post #10

Yep. Glycol and power steering fluid are bad for the sensors. Some of the Toyota trucks have this problem with the Os sensors from leaking hoses or seals nearby.

The person who cut a hole and welded a stainless steel insert with threads to mount a NEW O2 sensor was smart. I don't own a welder though.

I like gsmagnum's response about the 4-foot break bar, but taking that risk could be worse if things went wrong vs. repairs at a shop fix it. I already tried the foot and 1-foot bar leverage method. The last thing I need is to bust the entire cat off on the rear O2 sensor. YIKES. $$$$$$$.
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 Posted: 09-18-2006, 09:37 PM
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Post #11

Yes anti-freeze will damage an O2 sensor. I never heard of or tried to clean an O2 sensor before
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akichum
 
 Posted: 09-24-2006, 11:36 PM
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Post #12

I worked on 97 ram van with a stuck o2 sensor. That thing would not budge for anything!

However, I was able to place a breaker bar on the socket, then I use a regular floor jack and start to pump it up until the jack and the end of the breaker bar handle were secure. Once I achieve this, I SLOWLY, I mean SLOWLY started to pump the jack until I heard the rust on the o2 threads begin to make cracking sounds.

I release the jack and the sensor was loose enough to remove using the breaker bar and arm strength. The key here is to use the floor for leverage, the jack helps accomplish this. I would STRONGLY recommend that you NOT attempt this feat with the van on jack stands, that is dangerous. Keep it on the floor.

Just make sure you use penetrating oil, also make sure you are turning the breaker bar in the correct direction (righty tighty, lefty loosey) and keep an eye that you don't break anything (sensor itself, exhaust components, etc.) cause you'll being generating A LOT of torque with minimal effort!

Just my 2 cents, hopes this helps!
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MuskratJames
 
 Posted: 09-25-2006, 11:44 AM
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Post #13

Good info here, sounds like it's at least worth a try busting the old one loose and cleaning it. I like the tip about the jack, one of those simple ones that I'd never come up with For now I think I'll leave the O2 sensor where it is as it runs well and isn't throwing any codes, but I'll keep this bookmarked for when it's time. *Hits Ctrl + D*
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stev
 
 Posted: 09-30-2006, 12:43 PM
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Post #14

Thanks, I'll try the jack and penetrating oil. I hope to get this done prior to the first good snow fall up here near Buffalo!
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stev
 
 Posted: 01-13-2007, 05:21 PM
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Post #15

OK, I haven't got to this project due to the weather and other responsibilities.

I did get the CRC cleaner and the penetration fluid.
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