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Is there no hope for my steering?

7K views 49 replies 10 participants last post by  spun360 
#1 ·
Well, I've done it all now and the steering is still not right. It still has play, still won't return to center, and now makes a squeaking at the column, plus the pump is audible.

It all started in 2007 when I had the original track bar replaced. Ever since then, it has wandered and had play. I threw on a Thuren track bar back in 2009 and it didn't help steering, but tightened up the front suspension significantly. Here's what I've done trying to finally cure my steering:

-Thuren 0-3" track bar, NO IMPROVEMENT
-Spohn steering stabilizer, NO IMPROVEMENT
-HD Moog steering, NO IMPROVEMENT
-Alignment from Les Schwab, LITTLE to NO IMPROVEMENT
-Redhead steering box, LITTLE improvement in play and wander on hwy is IMPROVED. Still won't return to center and now squeaks at the column when wheel is turned?!?
-New/reman NAPA pump and fluid with proper bleed procedure, NO IMPROVEMENT

The steering is now worse than before due to the squeaking wheel, noisy pump, and because it still won't return to center. I shouldn't have messed with it I guess, and now I'm out over $1000 doing my own labor.

Is there no hope for my steering? This truck used to drive like a car, i.e. perfectly.
 
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#28 ·
Well, you nailed it, Spun. That synergy design looks like the best but not for 775 bucks! Good grief. Guess I'm screwed then or go back to the old Y steering. WHICH WORKED PERFECTLY FOR 80,000 miles!!!

Why so much grief on this? I totally get what you made but those "boots" will squish and wear out soon too. Why do they even make a stupid ball joint on these ends? Why not just put a cylindrical pivot joint in there?!?

So I wasted money on the stupid T steering that EVERYBODY says to get. NOPE. It sucks. I'm not about to tear it off and make some custom boots for it. If you made them, I'd buy them, but you won't. So I guess that's it. Synergy even explained my problem perfectly in their ad description. What's a guy to do? I get stacking washers like you said but am I seriously going to trust my life to a couple washers?

I guess I'll go get some crappy Y steering and start over. Or just drop it off at a shop and have them do it. This is so stupid I can't even. . . .

Thanks for your knowledge, Spun. That was the explanation I was looking for.
 
#29 ·
my home made bushings were made in may 2013, and still fine today. even simpler would be making a stack of rubber to squish between two metal washers.
let one fellow 2nd gen owner talk another down out of his tree!
 
#30 · (Edited)
I dunno. I think the noose is tightening. . . .

I see AcDelco still makes the puck style:

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3576474&cc=1377581&jsn=454

Can I just get the two TREs and keep the Moog drag link? Would they mate up?

Here's the driver side:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=439911&cc=1377581&jsn=431

And this quicksteer long rod for $42:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5669472&cc=1377581&jsn=453

This MAS brand is only $17:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7033260&cc=1377581&jsn=418

If these would attach to the Moog coupler and drag link, that would fix the problem, eh?
 
#31 ·
the rod sizes are all oe and all the moog stuff is meant to bolt right up/ weather half moog or all moog it can all be pieced together.
that low mis-alignment "wobble stopper" tre BOOT is the key though. its cheaper just to create the end result without replacing the entire rod.
cant imagine I would use the synergy machined solid alu on top of the tre. ask synergy to sell just the wobble stopper and I think it may induce its own problems not allowing the taper stud to seat properly.
ALL these kits have their own down falls. they all have room for improvement! every manufacturer don't make anything perfect!
what could go wrong/ worse- with stacked squished rubber washers than what you got now? just every now and then go under and try to twist the TREs to check slack..
 
#33 ·
Dang, I replaced all my shocks this summer and threw all the bushings away :ugh

Where to get this today? Home depot? Auto parts? I'm busy this weekend with family and will be driving up and over the pass on Monday so I want this resolved. Ugh.
 
#34 ·
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Okay, I'm going absolutely crazy. About to set the stupid thing on fire. Just filled it up so it will burn a long time.

I went to Lowes and got some rubber washers and steel washers. I took each side down of the tie rods and put 2 rubber and 1 steel washers on then retightened. Guess what? It took out the play. No more rotation.

But now. . . . . .

There's a nice dead spot in the steering worse than before. It steers as bad as it did last year. No improvement. No return. No fix.

I


am


about


done

:eshooter::5191beatdeadhorse:

There is no hope. I'm shopping trucks this weekend.
 
#35 ·
Had my Dad rotate the wheel while I looked under the truck and the only play is in the new Redhead box, so I called them and they immediately said they'd ship a new one to me by tomorrow. Wow! I sure hope this one works better. I also test drove a 2005 3500 4x4 Cummins with huge 35s on it and it drove beautifully with nice return and no play. I know it can be done!

Man, I wonder if I should use a shop for this install. My fear is that I'll put this one in and same results will occur. Should I toss the Moogs and put my old tie rods on? I wonder if the Moogs are all messed up now and will hurt the new box. I can't imagine how tie rods can be stronger than the pressure of the system. Again, I've driven other trucks with huge tires and they steer awesome with strong pressure to return.
 
#36 ·
Update:

Installed the replacement Redhead box and it seems better. First, the bleeding went much better. The old box would push all the fluid up and out. This one didn't do that. Second, I can feel it wanting to return to center a little bit. It is still pretty dead at low speed. But rolling at 20 or 30 it will return almost all the way. The play is gone also. Methinks the first box was just bad. Which is probably why they shipped one no questions asked. I'm heading to MN in a week so another 4k trip that the old girl has to make. Crossing my fingers. . .
 
#37 ·
i know you got a good update for us!
 
#38 ·
ok! I am real invested in this thread so, i'm going to keep it alive.
my polyurethane boots went bad. since then I made some revisions.
I guess the key focus should be on facilitating only a pivot motion with a ball joint. and trying to isolate the joint to do only its job and not to let the drag link wonder around at the lower union. here is what I have come up with. I know its not perfect. pictures to fallow
 

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#39 ·
as you can see. I took some fender washers- drilled out the center to 3/4s and stacked until the gap was just short, one short of binding up. it is absolutely partitive the taper stud seats in the searing knuckle. for the rest of the slack, I pounded out one of the washers and made a tension spring out of it. this bent and loaded washer maintains pressure on the tre and keeps the long bar tre between the two tires from rotating on any unwanted axis. keeping the tre straight and flat keeps the drag link in place. it allows the steering to become more predictable. that big honking chunk of metal synergy sells cant be right for just any vehicle. my passenger side took three washers with the center one waffled. the driver side took FIVE with the center one waffled. so just to sell a one size fits all solid PUCK would cause someone some binding issues, hazardous steering conditions and could create situations out of control for a car accident.
the revision works for me. cant imagine were it could go wrong. were is the joint going to go bad now? maybe road grime will seep in. SO WHAT! keep it greased. picts
 

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#40 ·
That looks like what I did but I just grabbed a couple washers both steel and rubber at Lowes for under $5.

Update on the road trip:

There is no play in the box. There is also very little return from center. If I got on snow (which was almost the whole way) it wouldn't return AT ALL. It is very stiff.

If I get in a rut, it takes extra movement to get the wheels to correct to the right. To the left is almost immediate. If the road is flat and new, the truck is very planted and runs nice and straight. Stiff, but straight.

Why no return?

My last option is ball joints. Maybe they have ovaled or something and when turning right, change their caster to keep the hubs over there. I don't know. I'm so tired of this. The truck did great but I know it's getting to the end.
 
#41 · (Edited)
just a thought!
I know you stated to have left the steering dampener off but, when its detached is the shock compressed or extended and does the shock rebound or shrink on its own. dampeners are supposed to only create movement resistance, not a push or pull on its own. know what I mean?
half way open, all the way open or closed my dampener stays right where I leave it! believe it or not- I have seen "nitro" gas charged dampeners, when they should only be hydraulic. nitros can ADD 100lbs to weight capacity and lift a vehicle.. not ment for a dampener..
I only run one steer dampener and a dual imo would be too much resistance on the action.
 
#42 ·
Yes, I know what you mean. I have the Skyjacker water shock so it stays right where it is. No 'spring' action like the oem shock. This is why I have left it off. I'm sure it will help the bump steer but it will make it even worse on the return as it creates resistance.
 
#43 ·
CONCLUSION:

Didn't want to let this thread hang without conclusion. After the road trip, and driving it around one more day with super stiff steering, it suddenly, overnight, decided to loosen up. I'm not joking.

Since mid-January my steering has been quite nice. It has pressure when turning and wants to return. The pump is kind of noisy but I've read that about replacement pumps. It still has a leak but I'll worry about that when it warms up. The new Redhead gear is miles better than the first one I got. I believe that was the break-in period. While it doesn't steer as nice as it did at 50,000 miles or like rack and pinion trucks, it does steer like new 2500s and so I'm content with that.

Just to review: I'm running on a second Redhead as first was bad, Moog T steering that required modification to keep ball joints from twisting, and nothing else. No stabilizer or DSS. There's no play, a little bump steer but I've gotten used to it, and decent return to almost 12 oclock. Alignment is 0 toe and 3.7 castor.

I am exhausted with this so I'm moving on to the vibration that can't be solved. . .
 
#44 ·
Buddy I hear you. I got noise in the front when hitting a bump. Noise when rolling to a stop (almost like 4wd is sort of engaged it's a clicking only when tires rotate. Might be at higher speeds but my exhaust I can't hear it only when rolling at like 10mph or below). Steering is a piece of s**t. Wanders, dead spots, and rides like a whore who needs money (rough lol). My 86 RAM rides like a caddy compared to my 96)
 
#45 ·
Clicking is usually u-joints shot. Wander is track bar, linkage, or steering gear, or all of the above. After all is new, then align it.
 
#47 ·
Yeah, that's common on 2wd trucks. In our 4wd versions, there's a bunch of culprits and most of us end up chasing all of them.
 
#49 ·
Glad you fixed your steering play, but you must mean track bar, not pitman arm. If your truck is 4wd, then the pitman arm can never be a culprit as its a solid chunk of hardened steel with a hole at each end. It attaches to the steering gear output shaft and drag link (tie rod).
 
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