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Wierd Electrical Problem, PCM, ABS Module. Please at least look.

20K views 11 replies 7 participants last post by  cstradling24 
#1 ·
I have a 1999 Dodge Durango 5.2L 4x4 with RWAL. The car has been giving me a load of problems in the last 2 years. I had the computer (PCM) replaced a year and 2 months ago by the dealer because the car would shut down and not start for a while (10mins - 3 hours). I would lose all gauges but there was a message where it shows my mileage (I forget the message).

A few months ago my ABS light and Brake light started to come on. My spedo works fine so it’s not related to that. I had a local shop run the codes on it and they told me it’s an ABS Main Relay Fault. They said this is in the ABS module and the whole thing would need to be replaced. I am friends with the guy so he wouldn’t screw with me. I just simply though that I could do without ABS and wasn’t going to fork out $400 for the module.

About two weeks ago another problem started to occur which at first I thought was unrelated. I got in my car and went to start it and the car just sat thing and cranked away like there was no tomorrow. I then noticed that my fuel pump was not turning on, and I also had no gauges again. Every gauge was dead and displayed nothing. I thought this was the computer again but I am not sure now. The computer is out of Dodge's one year warranty. Since the first time this happened it has started too happened more often. Also, after 2 or 3 minutes of turning the car on and off, on and off, you can hear the fuel pump kick in and then it will start. Sometimes I turn the car to on but not started and the fuel pump and gauges can take up to 10 seconds and they will finally kick on. Today 3 out of 3 times when I went to start it at different times during the day the problem happened. I took the ABS module out because I wanted to take it apart and see if the relay could be replaced but there nothing that looks wrong with it so I don’t want to start taking stuff off. While the ABS module was out I started the car and obviously the ABS light was on, the spedo didn’t work, BUT I started the car and the problem didn’t occur. I then turned the car off and then to on but didn’t start it literally about 30 times and everything the fuel pump turned on.

I really need help with why the car doesn’t start sometimes. I could care less about the ABS relay fault. What do you all think? Could the ABS's tests me taking it a while to complete and the PCM doesn’t kick in until the ABS module is done? Could the ABS module be shorting out or something and thus the PCM doesn’t kick on. Or do you think the PCM is screwed again, only being a year and two months old? Maybe it’s something completely different that’s wrong. Any ideas about any of this would be great. I really need help here as I am in college now and I do not have any more money to put in this. Any help would be much appreciated, thank in advance.

Chad

P.S. if you are confused about any of this ask me and I will try to clear it up.
 
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#2 ·
Ok, I got an ABS Module from a local salvage yard for $37 and that fixed the ABS problem, BUT

The main problem with my car not starting is still there and even worse. I found the article quoted below and got all exited. Then, when my car was malfunctioning I started to do the tests from that article. I turned the ignition on and tested the 5V constant on the TPS and there was 5V there so that means that circuit is fine. That sucks, although that articles symptoms are the exact same as mine it seems its not my problem.


From http://www.obd-codes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2168


I looked in my repair information and found this, there seems to be alot of testing.... Hope this helps


Vehicle: 1998 - 1999 Dodge Durango 3.9L
2000 - 2001 Dodge Durango 4.7L
1998 - 2000 Dodge Durango 5.2L
1998 - 2001 Dodge Durango 5.9L



Symptom: Engine will not start. Gauges are inoperative. No BUS message displayed on odometer.



System: Body/Chassis Electrical, Emissions/PCM/Fuel, Engine Electrical



Codes: N/A



Problem 1 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor.



Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the CKP sensor.



Problem 2 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor.



Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the CMP sensor.



Problem 3 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor.



Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire (5v power supply) at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the MAP sensor. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the MAP sensor.



Problem 4 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).



Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire (5 volt power supply) at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the TPS. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, replace the TPS.



Problem 5 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted wire.



Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the throttle position sensor (TPS) or manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug all sensors that are connected to the 5v power supply and disconnect the PCM. Check if either 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground using a DVOM. If the circuit is found to be shorted to ground, repair the wire and the cause of the short.



Problem 6 of 6: The 5v power supply from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is shorted due to a shorted Governor Pressure Sensor.



Test & Fix: If the 5v power supply circuit is shorted to ground, the CCD bus is unable to transmit messages and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) appears to be "dead". The PCM is not damaged when the 5v power supply gets shorted to ground, but does need to be reset by turning the key off for 10 second after the short is removed. Using a DVOM or labscope, measure the voltage on the 5v reference wire at the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) or Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor. If 5v is not present, unplug the large round connector on the driver's side of the transmission. Turn the key off for 10 seconds. Turn the key on and measure the voltage on the 5v power supply circuit. If the voltage is now 5v, remove the transmission pan and check for shorted wiring inside the transmission. If the wiring is OK, replace the Governor Pressure Sensor.

I also found a TSB which related to my problem and now there is a chance it may be my CTM (Central Timing Module) but I cant find a way to test it myself. If it was the CTM is seems it would be that the security system has a fault with a door sensor or something and isn't giving the CTM the go ahead, which in turn doesn't give the PCM to go. I may just have to pay the $60 to Dodge to have them hook up there DRBIII scan tool. Heres the TSB from AllData.com

From AllData.com


SUBJECT:
Engine Cranks But Does Not Start Or Starts And Stalls MODELS:

1998 - 2001 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1997 - 2000 (AN) Dakota
1998 - 2001 (BR/BE)Ram Truck
1998 - 2000 (DN) Durango

NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A VEHICLE THEFT ALARM (VTA) SYSTEM (SALES CODE LSA).

DISCUSSION:


Part of "No Start" diagnosis on vehicles equipped with VTSS should include a verification check of the power supply to the Central Timer Module (CTM). The CTM provides the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with an "OK To Start" message via the CCD bus. If the message is not received by the PCM, the PCM will not allow the engine to start. Initially, the engine may start and stall but will eventually not start at all. Most CTMs are supplied battery voltage through the power door lock fuse. An inspection of the fuse should be one of the initial diagnostic checks performed. If the fuse is operational, a verification check of the communication system from the CTM can be performed using the DRBIII(R). Attempt to communicate to the CTM. If the CTM does not respond to the DRBIII(R), the DRBIII(R) will identify a "No Response From Central Timer Module" message. A "No Response From Central Timer Module" message may indicate that the CTM is not powered up. Please refer to the "Communication" section of the appropriate Body Diagnostic Procedures Manual to assist in "No Start" diagnosis due to communication problems from the CTM. In addition, the "Vehicle Theft/Security" section will aid in the diagnosis of "No Start" issues involving the VTSS system.

POLICY: Information Only
 
#3 ·
quick suggestion...........change out the asd relay...........switch it with the a/c relay or install new. might get lucky.
 
#5 ·
to keep it simple.........allthe computers/modules "talk" over two "bus"lines. each module takes the info it needs and lets the rest continue on. your bus line is going down, usually shorted.

the way we find out which module has gone south.......when the fault is active.........one by one unplug crank sensor, pcm, tcm, cluster, hvac module if equipped etc etc until the "no bus" message goes away............pain in the ass, first you have to get it to fault then find it before it fixes itselk.

good luck
 
#6 ·
Ah, such is the life for a computer technicial, er, um, mechanic. :thatfunny Isn't it weird, the actual mechanical stuff works great, but the electronic crap that is installed to amke things run better usually screw up, costing more that the mechanical part, IF you can figure it out. :VHOT:

cstradling24:

Quick question. Do you have an aftermarket stereo?
 
#7 ·
i have a 98 that is going through the same thing abs light comes on spuratically has been doing it for a month or so but today the fuel pump started acting up. my fuel pump relayis clicking every time i turn the key on but the pump is not coming on. Hey cst is your relay still clicking even when the pump is not working?
 
#8 ·
Do a search on no-bus. There have been a few posts here and on other Dodge/Dak/Durango forums. Information was as you posted that it could be a connection problem with a PCM. Many of the early posts indicated this but there was seldom a post from the originator indicating that they had found the problem. More recent posts have indicated that the PCM was the problem. Replacing it corrected the issue.
 
#9 ·
Still doing it and even Dodge couldnt fine the problem... uhhhh


I do have an after market stereo but it wouldn't be related to this problem and although I just said that I have still taken it out and looked it over :lol:

It may be the middle connector on the PCM. I have heard something about when the PCM gets hot that the PCM somewhat swells and then the connector gets pushed out, both letting water in (maybe rusting?) and also giving a bad connecting. I may try to clean the connector (brake cleaner) and also but some aluminex on the connector carefully.
 
#11 ·
cstradling24 said:
It may be the middle connector on the PCM. I have heard something about when the PCM gets hot that the PCM somewhat swells and then the connector gets pushed out, both letting water in (maybe rusting?) and also giving a bad connecting. I may try to clean the connector (brake cleaner) and also but some aluminex on the connector carefully.
that's probsbly your best bet, electrical connectors and water don't mix. I use wd-40 for bad connections.
 
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