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Cammed my 4.7 and more...

2K views 13 replies 6 participants last post by  Michael B. 
#1 · (Edited)
Okay guys. Just a FYI and maybe this post will help someone.

New member. Bought a very nice low mile 2005 Ram Quad SLT 4x2 with the 4.7 and 3.92's for basic use and an occasional tow about six months ago. Well... At the start it did not tow my rig very well so I went to the on-line shops and started ordering some go-fast goods.

Here is what I ended up with:

Got the new KRC 212 cams
Got a KRC electric fan kit
Got a KRC 4.56:1 gear set
Got a factory ltd slip
Got a K&N filter
Made a cold air kit from a fog light hole in the bumper

Then I went to the dyno

Dynojet dyno showed poor results. 180 HP @ the wheels / 200 TQ. About 15-20 max gained over stock HP and actually lost 2 ft lbs TQ.

The AFR was super lean at WOT up top too.

Anyhow I figured that the 4.56 gears were messing with the dyno numbers or something and continued to drive the thing anyhow. The truck felt great around town but no more than what I would have expected out of the gear swap alone.

Talked to the guys at KRC and they said they could reprogram the ECU for towing but I did not do that.

Then I went on a big tow - for 1100 miles.

The truck got it done (at 9.5 MPG) but it was a struggle. I know these are higer rev engines but heck, it would not make power without downshifting two gears (in tow/haul mode). Then it ran pretty well, but it was near 4000 RPM to do so (@ 67MPH +/-).

My trailer was empty but enclosed (22ft 3500 or so lbs) I cant imagine how it would have been with a 3000 lb car in it.

That about did it for me. I went looking at the new Dodge line up with the lifetime warrantys and all. I got a '07 Hemi 4x2 (big rebates and they gave me more than I paid for the '05 six months ago), but was eyeballing the Diesel (they had a 2005 used 5.9 sitting right there).

So now my 4.7 sits on the lot and no one has any idea it has all that cool stuff on it.

I liked that 4.7 truck and I tried like heck to make it work for me. Now I just hope the Hemi works out so I dont have to trade for the diesel in another six months. :help:
 
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#3 ·
The diesel was tempting.

It had only 41,000 miles, and it was a good color, quad, nice options. The 100K 5.9 warranty too. But it did not have the sat radio, and the hands free phone, the exact color I wanted, the new look interior and the Big Horn package etc. I could buy a new truck just the way I wanted it - with the respectable Hemi for less actual money than the 2005 used Diesel.

I still am a little bothered by the choice but I tow like 8 times a year so I went with the gas power plant. I cross my fingers that it will be okay. I will tow with it Monday (400 miles loaded - 6500 lbs enclosed trailer weight) so I will know soon enough!
 
#4 ·
Soooo, you modded, didnt tune for it, and didnt like the results?
I mean, thats just how it happens on any vehicle..
You put a cam in most any vehicle and up top its gonna' run leaner than a popcorn fart with out a tune for it..
Im really not understanding the initial point you were trying to make with the post.
You were unsatisfied with the 212's w/o a tune?
O.K.

I would expect to not be satisfied with ANY camchange without a tune for it.
{unless your just putting an f or an e cam in your 93 mustang 5.0}

Im not bashing on you man, and Im not sayin' you should have been satisfied, I'm just sayin' you shouldnt have expected to be..

That being said, I'd hop on the diesel bandwagon if you had the chance..

$
 
#5 ·
Well... 1st off I am not trying to make any point. Just letting the forum know what happened to someone who actually did buy the hop-up parts & used them. So many people want this stuff, but often times they dont go get it. I did.

Secondly, KRC is who guided me on the "tuning" and I followed their direction. After the fact that it did not make good power the "towing flash" was offered. But they told me that all they could do was add a little fuel & map the advance so it would not blow the tops off the pistons. They did not say that tuning would help power period. The best suggestion was "run premium fuel & try that."

My dyno guy & I looked at each other once - then I drove to the Hemi store.

I know your not bashing on me so no problem.

As for the diesel suggestion... NOW you tell me.
 
#7 ·
My 212 cam Quad Cab 4.7L is currently running 9.70's in the 1/8 mile...

At first I had the same problems you have had... I tried EVERYTHING as far as tuninging goes... the BG flash was a JOKE and actually performed worse then the stock tune. I then added a FOX tune and made some progress but the truck was not nearly as fast as it was when i had the H/O cams and Superchips. In the beginning the 212 cams belted out 242RWHP with an AFR of 14.75:1 at WOT. I have not had it on a DYNO since the SCT but the track times have it about 280RWHP.

After about a year and a half with the FOX custom tune with a SAFCII and less then good results SCT has appeared and saved the day!

Now with all my mods SCT has brought them together... My 4.7L will WHOOP on many CAMMED 5.7L trucks.... I'm not saying it will whoop them all... but I'm making them thing twice about staging next to me, most of them ask me what I did to my HEMI to make it run so fast... When I tell them its a 4.7L they don't believe it, then they want to know where the bottle is... when they learn there is no bottle they walk away with a new found respect for the 4.7L!

I personally would go with the 206 cams if I where to do it all over again. The 206 cams would not requirer nearly as much tuning as the 212's.

Anyway we are still tuning, I think mid 9.5x's are in the near future with just tuning.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#8 ·
Damn!

Now I've done it. I should have kept the 4.7! :) :) :)

By the way, I pulled out the dyno chart. The numbers were close to what I posted but here are the actuals:

Stock: 166.4 HP / 221.8 TQ @ the wheels.
Mods: 185.2 HP / 219.2 TQ @ the wheels.

Looking at the chart the performance was pretty good over stock throughout the higher rev range, but as noted peak power (which does not mean much) was a pretty tame improvement.

Example: Stock cams made more power in both area's to about 3800 RPM. Then afterwards the 212's continued to perform as the stock cams fell off. By 5200 RPM the 212 cam was 20 ftlbs stronger than the stocker. HP was 25 higher at the same 5200 RPM. However... That was not the range that I needed power in. I cant imagine anyone but the drag racers needing power at 5200 on up.

The 4.7 is a great engine, and very modern, but it did not suit my application no matter what I threw at it. And I really tried (like any Mopar guy would).

So... Moral of the story. Luv your 4.7, but get this new fangled SCT stuff to go with all the stuff I tested!
 
#9 ·
This is NOT a flame although it does seem a bit harsh...

I just think its funny how some people add a couple of mods and claim they threw everything at it... You added 212 Cams, E-Fan and 4.56 gears.... thats about it. That hardly equates to EVERYTHING. Although you put allot of time into them... I'm sure they feel like "EVERYTHING" to you.

Your mod list contained:
212 cams
electric fan
4.56:1 gears
factory ltd slip <=== Limited slip Im guessing (Check out the 3G RAM - Drivetrain Talk for the low down in the stock LSD)
Drop in K&N filter <=== Proven to lose 5+RWHP

The only three real mods you had where the 212 cams, E-Fan and the 4.56 gears. And honestly those 212's where the worst cam you could have chosen with your set up. I'm not flaming you I'm just trying to point out you did VERY FEW mods and two of them hurt your performance (K&N Drop in filter & 212 cams). So this is a clear case of adding the WRONG parts for the WRONG results. Did you know that those 212 cams requirer a 2800+ stall converter?... That would have helped a little, but those 212's needed a tune more than anything else.

An example of throwing ALMOST everything at a 4.7L would look more like this:

FM PORTED HEAD's
212 cams
70mm TB
H/O Intake
=AIR=RAM=> INTAKE
Gibson headers
4:56 Gears
ASP Pulley
180 T-Stat
Fram HP-1
NGK "IRIDIUM" PLUGS
MRK 8 Electric Fan
SCT TUNE

And the end results are rather impressive... And still a bit shy of "EVERYTHING" and its all getting better as we fine tune this combo. Right now it should DYNO in the ball park of 280RWHP.

I have learned allot in the modding I have also paid attention to others who have modded before me so I could avoid their mistakes. I wish you had found Dodge Talk prior to starting your quest for 4.7L HP as we would have been able to better guide you. I personaly would have liked to help guide you to more rewarding results.

Adding three mods and saying you have thrown in the towel because you had unfavorable results after doing ALL the testing on two poorly matched mods is hardly a fair review on what to expect from mods.

Just an example... when I added the 212 cams, my 4.7L was making 242RWHP (14.75AFR@WOT) ... thats a HUGE difference from your 180RWHP... This is an example how mods CAN work together and make HP or not work together and lose HP.

Again this is NOT a flame, I just feel your 4.7L with 212 cams and 4.56 gears is VERY incomplete. Its like making an apple pie and leaving the apples out of it, those 212 cams required MINIMUM 2800 Stall converter, 68MM Throttle body, HEADERS, and most of all a tune. Out of all those above... you had NON other than the 212 cams.

The 206 cams would have been better suited for your mods & goals at that time.

I'm glad you got a HEMI, you will like it allot... Great engine with plenty of performance parts available to make it scream. If you do decide to Mod it, CHECK IN HERE and ask before you spend your money. You may very well end up saving money and making more HP by choosing the RIGHT parts that work together. Everyone here on Dodge Talk will be more than happy to help you pick the right parts in the right order.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thats cool.

But I tell you - I did go on-line to research the mods first. And I found KRC that way. Now lets be clear, I am not bashing KRC but I went to them with a blank check and said "send me everything" and this was their list (sans new connecting rods for the blower system that I actually called about -and planned to buy- before they told me that the stock rods would not take the blower and that it was wrong for towing). I let them pick the items (including cam choice) after detailing my application (let the pros do the work). So I really figured this was everything my needs required (I did not include the spark plug swap as it was a minor detail but they were changed to your spec - and I had read that the intake my 2005 4.7 had was as good as the H.O. intake).

And... I tested the drop in K&N Vs stock on the dyno within my 8 or more pulls. It made HP on this truck. Sorry.

And remember, I did say that these parts (that you call poorly matched) did make some power up top (just where I couldnt use it). If I were drag racing this quad I could have been semi-happy with the gains. And as mentioned in the 1st post somebody is going to get a 4.7 with a lot of cool parts (and not even know it).

Honestly though, thanks for your replies.
 
#12 ·
Michael B. said:
Damn!

Now I've done it. I should have kept the 4.7! :) :) :)

By the way, I pulled out the dyno chart. The numbers were close to what I posted but here are the actuals:

Stock: 166.4 HP / 221.8 TQ @ the wheels.
Mods: 185.2 HP / 219.2 TQ @ the wheels.

Looking at the chart the performance was pretty good over stock throughout the higher rev range, but as noted peak power (which does not mean much) was a pretty tame improvement.

Example: Stock cams made more power in both area's to about 3800 RPM. Then afterwards the 212's continued to perform as the stock cams fell off. By 5200 RPM the 212 cam was 20 ftlbs stronger than the stocker. HP was 25 higher at the same 5200 RPM. However... That was not the range that I needed power in. I cant imagine anyone but the drag racers needing power at 5200 on up.

The 4.7 is a great engine, and very modern, but it did not suit my application no matter what I threw at it. And I really tried (like any Mopar guy would).

So... Moral of the story. Luv your 4.7, but get this new fangled SCT stuff to go with all the stuff I tested!
From your original post it looks like your requirements were for a street/towing application, but the folks at KRC spec'ed out mods more suitable for drag racing (as you found out).

Michael B. said:
New member. Bought a very nice low mile 2005 Ram Quad SLT 4x2 with the 4.7 and 3.92's for basic use and an occasional tow about six months ago. Well... At the start it did not tow my rig very well so I went to the on-line shops and started ordering some go-fast goods.
It's too bad you were led down the wrong path for the results you were desiring. According to Air-Ram and other knowledge to be found here there was nothing wrong with what you were sold, it was just incomplete for a total performance improvement package, but mostly it was not the right path for your intended application.

My understanding is: for towing applications HO are the best, 206s are still usable and a bit better at higher RPMs than HO. Either cam work suitably with stock or Superchip tunes. If you want top-end that's where the 212s (along with more stuff [t-converter, flash, gears] being required to get their full yield) come into play.
 
#14 ·
All I have left are a set of stock 4.7 cams from before the swap. If you want some core cams to put a new grind on these would be good, but the 212x cams went away with the traded in truck as mentioned.
 
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