2013 RAM 1500 8speed HEMI 0-60 vs Ford Ecoboost - Page 2 - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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RoyJ
 
 Posted: 08-28-2012, 08:11 PM
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Post #21

With the 8 speed you don't really NEED 4.10s to get good times.

Consider the 4.7 1st gear, vs the current 3.0, even 3.55s would perform like a 5.56 rear end! You'll be traction limited in 2wd, so going to 4.10s won't make you any faster.

Now, if you're braking torquing in 4x4, then 4.10s might help. But remember, that's like the 545RFE hooked up with a 6.42 rear end. Luckily the 8 speed can shift in 200ms, or else you might actually be slower, wasting more time shifting.

Regardless, either the video is biased, or something isn't right with that pre-production truck. Likely the latter, because that truck did have a HEMI badge and rotary dial shifter (so legit 8 speed).
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VernL
 
 Posted: 08-29-2012, 07:20 PM
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Post #22

The 4.10s as in the past are probably only for the RT.

In a past thread we compared the 3.21 8 speed to the 4.56 with the current trans. You have slightly lower final drive ratios with the 3.21 8 speed and better gear spacing thru the first 6 gears plus having two more gears to go.

Lets just say they both have perfect traction. The 3.21 with the new trans should be at least as quick as 4.56 gears in the current trans. And or get a load moving equally well or better.

3.21 with the Hemi won't just be for best highway fuel economy anymore.

My thoughts being there is always a point of diminishing return. (And the trade off of lesser highway fuel economy.) Even without the traction factor odd as it may sound the lower gear (numerically higher) say 3.92s may not provide any or only fractionally better acceleration than the 3.21s.
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Litos
 
 Posted: 08-29-2012, 08:19 PM
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Post #23

you can't brake tq ANY new Dodges.....

freaking cars and trucks pull timing at anything over 1500rpms....

you can brake tq all you want if it makes you feel good, but the super nannies built into all of these new Dodges will kill ANY performance you think you're getting.....
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wyat72
 
 Posted: 08-29-2012, 11:31 PM
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Post #24

Quote:
Originally Posted by VernL View Post
The 4.10s as in the past are probably only for the RT.

In a past thread we compared the 3.21 8 speed to the 4.56 with the current trans. You have slightly lower final drive ratios with the 3.21 8 speed and better gear spacing thru the first 6 gears plus having two more gears to go.

Lets just say they both have perfect traction. The 3.21 with the new trans should be at least as quick as 4.56 gears in the current trans. And or get a load moving equally well or better.

3.21 with the Hemi won't just be for best highway fuel economy anymore.

My thoughts being there is always a point of diminishing return. (And the trade off of lesser highway fuel economy.) Even without the traction factor odd as it may sound the lower gear (numerically higher) say 3.92s may not provide any or only fractionally better acceleration than the 3.21s.
Very well put and I completely agree.

I still think that the 8 speed Hemis will only be available with the 3.21 and 3.55 rearends, but the same ratios (3.21 4x2, 3.55 standard, 3.92 optional, 4.10 R/T) will still be offered for the 6 speed versions of the truck, thus Ram saying 4 ratios are available.
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HEMI_ROM
 
 Posted: 08-31-2012, 05:47 PM
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Post #25

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Originally Posted by adamdude04 View Post
Ford for the win!

I like it when an american truck puts a dodge in its place.
LOL, bring me a fecalboost and a video camera if you dare.
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dcdave78
 
 Posted: 11-11-2012, 01:28 PM
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Post #26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanky View Post
Personally I don't really care...at the end of the day its still the same story...Fords look like girlie trucks with crap interiors and a V6 for fuel economy. Ford shows its technology alright..they can't make a 19-21 MPG V8 so lets mate a turbo to our V6. Place the two side by side and I promise you I'll get more compliments on my truck than that pos ford.
Wow even for a Dodge forum it is alittle too bias. First off before I speak I own a 2006 Dodge Hemi 300c and a 2012 F150 ecoboost with Max tow so I own vehicles from both companies. I drove all trucks before buying my F150. ( ridgeline,Tundra,Ram,F150,Sierra) Sorry titan guys that truck is severely dated and GM almost falls into that catergory. I based my decision on the following.

1. Towing and torque. Clearly ecoboost leads the pack here. 420 ft pounds at the wheel at 2,500 RPMS lots of low end torque needed for towing. Infact the torque curve is almost similar to a diesel engine. No other half ton has low end torque like the ecoboost. Dodge is close but not there. You have to be near 5500 RPM or 6500 RPM for the old 5.4 triton or the Ram to match that torque.

2.Payload. Ford leads here again, the coil spring really is nice for ride comfort but gives up payload. I hate a sagging truck and I have no problems here. Notice in 2013 ram went to air suspension I know horror stories of airbags going and people loosing control. Personally I wouldn't want that. I will stick with tried and true leaf springs.

3. Gas mileage truck for truck ecoboost leads here. Dodge may close the gap with the 8 speed tranny or pass Ford but at time of writing this the Dodge couldn't match the ecoboost for MPG.

4. Performance. Well its a tie here I have have witnessed Dodge win some and Ford win some. Frankly both are very fast trucks!

5. Looks. Personally I like the f150 here. BUT i can see how many love the Dodge Ram look.

6. Bang for the buck. Dodge hands down. Ford is expensive I agree.

7.Reliablility I have heard people knocking the turbos saying wait until that goes and see the bills. I disagree the ecoboost engines have been out since 2009 with no major issues. These engines started out in the SHO taurus and havent had any issues. Modern day turbos have been designed differently that the ones from even 10 years ago. The f150 has watercooled turbos which are not the same design you see on the 2500 or 3500 series trucks. What would you rather replace a 8 speed tranny or a turbo. Ford guys could same the same about the fancy new trannies. I would say reliablility is a tie.

Nobody can argue that the ecoboost isn't a good truck. Ford has hit a home run with this truck. I tow a 7500 pound trailer in the summer in this truck pulls the trailer like it isnt even there. My old Triton would constantly be downshifting. For me I do alot of highway driving and this truck is amazing on gas. And when I have to tow it is amazing there as well. Both Dodge and Ford make great trucks they are the two leaders IMO.

So for me the ecoboost works well. Some may disagree but these two trucks are very evenly matched.
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JackedDak03
 
 Posted: 11-12-2012, 09:10 AM
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Post #27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanky View Post
Personally I don't really care...at the end of the day its still the same story...Fords look like girlie trucks with crap interiors and a V6 for fuel economy. Ford shows its technology alright..they can't make a 19-21 MPG V8 so lets mate a turbo to our V6. Place the two side by side and I promise you I'll get more compliments on my truck than that pos ford.
Tanky, beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. And the 5.0 consistently gets 19-20mpg's in the crew cab trucks. I've driven brand new, not broken in, Crew Cab Short Bed 4x4's and each one returns 19+ mpg (pic below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HEMI_ROM View Post
LOL, bring me a fecalboost and a video camera if you dare.
LOL @ you - a simple catback exhaust net's 20-30HP, a tuner will get even more. This is comparing apples/apples since you have a non stock truck.

The ecoboost is an awesome engine, simply put its excellent for a truck that will work- tow/haul etc. No knocking the HEMI as its has a ton of power, but at the end of the day its a car engine. Power/Tq is too high in the RPM band, finally Chrysler is slapping a decent transmission behind it to help the low end. Once the 8 speed is out, Dodge will be on top...

possibly until Nissan comes out with the new Titan and Chevy shows its new Small Blocks.
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RedRam20s
 
 Posted: 11-12-2012, 10:05 AM
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Post #28

Why does ford have to have the speedometer and tachometer so small? The older crowd needs their glasses to read that.

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Noved
 
 Posted: 11-12-2012, 10:07 AM
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Post #29

Before this turns into a pissing contest. The Hemi and the Ecoboost seem to be equal I have seen each win over each other a bunch of times that it is hard to determine a winner. Just buy what you like and be done with it. I am basing this statement on youtube videos, Real life witnessing at the track and towing competitions. Ford stages their videos and so does dodge I really do not take manufacturer videos as a basis to go on unless they are only involving their vehicles and no one elses.
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mhb1638
 
 Posted: 11-12-2012, 12:24 PM
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Post #30

I grew up with Chevrolet as bread and butter in my family. Yes, I'm biased against Fords, my family was basically the anti-Ford family. The type were you'd rather walk then drive one. Even so, I live in the south were trucks dominate the majority of drivers. I will say that the Ford ecoboost is a nice setup, but lets be totally honest here, its not innovative. Toyota came out with a beefy truck and motor and sent the big 3 scrambling. Chevy hasn't done much and still uses the dated 5.3 in most of its trucks. Ford...I'm sorry but the interior in everything they make is just so blah. Even the Mustang...so bland and plastic everywhere. But look what Chrysler is bringing forward...innovation interior design, link coil suspension, 8 speed transmission, active grill shutters, I mean they are innovating alot.
Yes, its all based on what YOU as a person want. But like I said before, at the end of the day, people think my truck looks 110% better and sexier than any Ford sitting beside me. Yes the turbo V6 can hang with the Hemi...ok...but based on interior and exterior looks, I say Dodge owns the full size market hands down. Just my opinion.
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dmcelhannon
 
 Posted: 11-12-2012, 01:07 PM
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Post #31

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Before this turns into a pissing contest. .....
It turns into a pissing or flaming contest, it'll be closed.

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JackedDak03
 
 Posted: 11-12-2012, 07:41 PM
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Post #32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanky View Post
I grew up with Chevrolet as bread and butter in my family. Yes, I'm biased against Fords, my family was basically the anti-Ford family. The type were you'd rather walk then drive one. Even so, I live in the south were trucks dominate the majority of drivers. I will say that the Ford ecoboost is a nice setup, but lets be totally honest here, its not innovative. Toyota came out with a beefy truck and motor and sent the big 3 scrambling. Chevy hasn't done much and still uses the dated 5.3 in most of its trucks. Ford...I'm sorry but the interior in everything they make is just so blah. Even the Mustang...so bland and plastic everywhere. But look what Chrysler is bringing forward...innovation interior design, link coil suspension, 8 speed transmission, active grill shutters, I mean they are innovating alot.
Yes, its all based on what YOU as a person want. But like I said before, at the end of the day, people think my truck looks 110% better and sexier than any Ford sitting beside me. Yes the turbo V6 can hang with the Hemi...ok...but based on interior and exterior looks, I say Dodge owns the full size market hands down. Just my opinion.
Agreed 100%
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jasonsdakota
 
 Posted: 11-21-2012, 09:12 PM
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Post #33

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Originally Posted by Tanky View Post
I will say that the Ford ecoboost is a nice setup, but lets be totally honest here, its not innovative.
hmmm... just for kicks i looked up the word innovation on wikipedia. "Innovation is the development of new customers value through solutions that meet new needs, inarticulate needs, or old customer and market needs in new ways. This is accomplished through different or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a better and, as a result, novel idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself. Innovation differs from improvement in that innovation refers to the notion of doing something different (Lat. innovare: "to change") rather than doing the same thing better."

my arguement is that the twin turbo v6 mated to a well designed 6 speed is great innovation. no, ford didn't invent the turbo, but theyre the first to bring it to a smaller engine to give truck guys what they need. tons of low end torque and great gas mileage too. i think ford has the cake on innovation right now.
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wyat72
 
 Posted: 11-21-2012, 09:30 PM
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I don't consider it innovative when a 4 year old engine can be mated to a new transmission and outperform it. I consider the egoboost tech over complicated and not cost effective.
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Blade Runner
 
 Posted: 11-22-2012, 01:31 AM
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Post #35

Who the hell in their right minds puts a rotory dial gear selector in a TRUCK???
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Noved
 
 Posted: 11-22-2012, 09:24 AM
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Post #36

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Originally Posted by wyat72 View Post
I don't consider it innovative when a 4 year old engine can be mated to a new transmission and outperform it. I consider the egoboost tech over complicated and not cost effective.
I agree with you however the 3.5L is actually older than 4 years old I found this press release when it came out back in 05.
http://www.autoblog.com/2005/11/09/b...and-six-speed/


This is why I have to agree that slapping on a twin turbo setup on a 7 year old engine is not innovative. To me innovative is an all new engine and that twin turbo setup with their new tranny.
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wyat72
 
 Posted: 11-22-2012, 12:11 PM
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Post #37

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I agree with you however the 3.5L is actually older than 4 years old I found this press release when it came out back in 05.
http://www.autoblog.com/2005/11/09/b...and-six-speed/


This is why I have to agree that slapping on a twin turbo setup on a 7 year old engine is not innovative. To me innovative is an all new engine and that twin turbo setup with their new tranny.
I was comparing the eb to the eagle vvt hemi and 8 speed. IMO they changed enough on the 3.5 to call it an all new motor. The bore and stroke of the engine is the same as the original 3.5. But the eb has new heads, valve timing system, direct injection, and internals. Even the block has been reinforced. So basically everything is new in the eb. I just think that something that is truly innovative can out perform the status quo, while being more simple and more cost effective.

The eb, being a twin turbo, tivct, DI, DOHC V6, has a hell of a lot more moving parts then the hemi. While the 8 speed isn't as cost effective as the eb's 6 speed, according to ZF's own website has less moving parts then the 6 speed. So IMO the hemi 8 speed is much more innovative then the eb.
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Last edited by wyat72 : 11-22-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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dmcelhannon
 
 Posted: 11-22-2012, 12:35 PM
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Post #38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Runner View Post
Who the hell in their right minds puts a rotory dial gear selector in a TRUCK???
You gotta remember those Yankees focus groups are high on coffee-n-donuts. To them and their little brains, the dial is a great idea. After all, they spend all day pushing buttons and playing with knobs on their little electronic toys. Pickup to them is a waste and a throwback to the wide west. Heck, the only and biggest thing they put in bed is two or three sacks of groceries.

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God Squad July 1972-To Infinity and Beyond-#40 Little Rammie Ridin' Shotgun Club
287 Club Member #81 ~ Broken C Clip Club Member ~ Two-Tone Truck Club Member #13 ~ 4.56 R&P Club Member #8
Mighty Cracked Dash Enthusiast Club #11~Mother Earth Raping Big Truck Club Member #25~Truck and Gun Club Member #97

2002 Ram 1500 SLT 4x4 QC - (Nov.01) 4.7L with 89K/3***hrs, 2002 Ram 45RFE Jeep GC TCM Upgrade to 5-45RFE, Knolton Thunder Cylinder Heads & HO Cams by Sawcut, 4.56 R&P/DTT, SRT-10 Pod w/Dynojet Wideband Commander, 2-speed manual transfer case, Clifford Security System w/Auto Start/Auto Windows, RB1 CD/DVD/NAV Infinity Sound System w/30GB iPod, Offroad Package, 33" BFG T/A KO E's, Mopar Rear Wheel Liners, EBC Greenstuff Roadsport Brake Pads, K&N w/Airaid Jr Modular Intake Tube, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, Sonnax Line Pressure Booster, AIR_RAM Jet Stream Scoop, PML Diff Cover, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, MSD 1.65 Alt Pulley, Lincoln E-Fan, DCC 2-Speed E-Fan Controller, 180 Jet T-Stat, Denso 160-amp Alternator, Flowmaster SI/DO Exhaust, Accele 3.5" LCD Backup System, Line of Fire LED Light Bar, Sylvania Ultra Silverstars, Hella 500 Black Magic-100W, Nokya Hyper Yellow Fog Lights, $1600 Oil Pick-up Tube thanks Dodge
Texas 1845: We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

Engine Failure ~ 645+-Days and Counting Thanks To A Dodge Pin-Head Engineer


“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”
~ Thomas Jefferson

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wyat72
 
 Posted: 11-22-2012, 07:36 PM
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Post #39

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcelhannon View Post
You gotta remember those Yankees focus groups are high on coffee-n-donuts. To them and their little brains, the dial is a great idea. After all, they spend all day pushing buttons and playing with knobs on their little electronic toys. Pickup to them is a waste and a throwback to the wide west. Heck, the only and biggest thing they put in bed is two or three sacks of groceries.

Sorry, but it doesn't make me feel manlier grabbing a stick and jerking it around. Most people who do that ask for $50 when done.

There is something about people complaining about new tech that works, just because it is new, that seems very stupid.
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Appearance Mods: Chrome Mopar Tubular Side Steps, Chrome Mopar Bug Guard, Mopar Tow Mirrors, Mopar Mud Flaps & Wheel Liners, Mopar Tow Hooks, Putco Chrome Door Handle Covers, AMI Chrome Fuel Door, Curt Customized Hitch Cover, Bully Locking Tailgate Handle, ACI Vanish Tonneau, Line-X Bed Liner, Autospring 2" Leveling Kit, Cooper Zeon LTZs.

Performance Mods: SuperChips FlashPaq, Volant CAI, 12589 Magnaflow Muffler and Y-Pipe.

Red Truck Club Member #289
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dmcelhannon
 
 Posted: 11-22-2012, 10:15 PM
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Post #40

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyat72 View Post
Sorry, but it doesn't make me feel manlier grabbing a stick and jerking it around. Most people who do that ask for $50 when done.

There is something about people complaining about new tech that works, just because it is new, that seems very stupid.
You mean like the knob or buttons to shift the transfer-case on the dash. Sure, nothing ever goes wrong with those things. Then when it fails while you're off-road are you going to fix-it? If you have a manual shifter and it fails, you can get under the truck and move linkage yourself. Personally, the best system was when you three shifters on the floor. You had better control and feel for what the truck was doing.

Now for the street vehicle, I love the paddle shifters. Ripping down the road and all you have to do is move your finger-tips. Very sweet idea! It's not as much fun as the clutch-n-stick but it does change the way the drive.

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God Squad July 1972-To Infinity and Beyond-#40 Little Rammie Ridin' Shotgun Club
287 Club Member #81 ~ Broken C Clip Club Member ~ Two-Tone Truck Club Member #13 ~ 4.56 R&P Club Member #8
Mighty Cracked Dash Enthusiast Club #11~Mother Earth Raping Big Truck Club Member #25~Truck and Gun Club Member #97

2002 Ram 1500 SLT 4x4 QC - (Nov.01) 4.7L with 89K/3***hrs, 2002 Ram 45RFE Jeep GC TCM Upgrade to 5-45RFE, Knolton Thunder Cylinder Heads & HO Cams by Sawcut, 4.56 R&P/DTT, SRT-10 Pod w/Dynojet Wideband Commander, 2-speed manual transfer case, Clifford Security System w/Auto Start/Auto Windows, RB1 CD/DVD/NAV Infinity Sound System w/30GB iPod, Offroad Package, 33" BFG T/A KO E's, Mopar Rear Wheel Liners, EBC Greenstuff Roadsport Brake Pads, K&N w/Airaid Jr Modular Intake Tube, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, Sonnax Line Pressure Booster, AIR_RAM Jet Stream Scoop, PML Diff Cover, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, MSD 1.65 Alt Pulley, Lincoln E-Fan, DCC 2-Speed E-Fan Controller, 180 Jet T-Stat, Denso 160-amp Alternator, Flowmaster SI/DO Exhaust, Accele 3.5" LCD Backup System, Line of Fire LED Light Bar, Sylvania Ultra Silverstars, Hella 500 Black Magic-100W, Nokya Hyper Yellow Fog Lights, $1600 Oil Pick-up Tube thanks Dodge
Texas 1845: We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

Engine Failure ~ 645+-Days and Counting Thanks To A Dodge Pin-Head Engineer


“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he
disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”
~ Thomas Jefferson

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