Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge P200 Mail Van - Part Two - Page 17 - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
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#321 Old 04-14-2012, 06:43 AM
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But instead of doing the installation today, this afternoon was spent with Jeane, Chris, and Naomi, the daughter, her husband and the grand daughter of my long past significant other who now has Alzheimers and is living in a facility in New Mexico. They took me out to eat. Had fried shrimp. Jeane considers me her stepfather. It was a wonderful afternoon.

Sounds great! You needed a break in your daily routine.

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#322 Old 04-14-2012, 01:09 PM
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Sounds great! You needed a break in your daily routine.
Hey Al,
Went to sleep last night around 8:00 p.m. got up this morning at 6:47 a.m. Did the morning routine, and went back to bed at about 7:30 a.m. and slept till 10:15 a.m.

Am now kind of rested, but an in a kind of a "let-down" mode.

BUT, am going to go see if I can get the Exhaust/Intake Manifold put up onto the Studs. That's the only hard part left to do.

Will let you know how it goes.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#323 Old 04-14-2012, 07:21 PM
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Hey All,
Saturday Evening Update:

Lorrie's Intake/Exhaust Manifolds are on the Studs on the Cylinder Head.

All the top Washers and Nuts are in place, but not tightened.

Got the NEW Fan Belt installed.

Aired up the Air Tank and blew all the rubber dust out of the Alternator.

Will install the bottom Washers and Nuts on the Manifolds tomorrow morning.

Have the Starter to reinstall.

Have the Carburetor to reinstall.

Have the Throttle Linkage to reinstall.

Have to Vacuum Hoses to reinstall.

Have the Radiator to reinstall.

Hook up the Hoses, including the Transmission Cooling Hoses.

Reconnect the Exhaust Pipe Brace.

Fill the Radiator with distilled water.

Put the ATF into the Transmission (not over-filling it this time).

And Lorrie should be ready to run again.

Will keep you all updated.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#324 Old 04-15-2012, 12:54 PM
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Hey All,
Sunday Morning Update:

Started torquing the Intake/Exhaust Manifold down this morning. Am doing them all in 1 ft/lb increments from the center to the ends starting at 5 ft/lbs.

Got the Lower Nut behind the Center torqued to 5 ft/lbs.

Started torquing the Lower Nut on the Stud ahead of the Center. It wouldn't snug up. Turned and turned on it and it never started to tighten. So concluded that the threads in the Nut were stripped.

Removed the Nut and put it on another Stud that was more accessible, and it tightened right up!

Took the Nut that was on the Stud that the other Nut went on, and put it on the Lower Stud ahead of the Center, and it tightened right up.

All this made me want to go: "Hmmmmm!".

So started torquing it down and before it got to 5 ft/lbs, the snugness let go!

By this time I'm getting fatigued, and so I'm taking a break.

BUT, what I suspect is that THAT Stud is stripped down close to the Triangular Washer. Don't know THAT for sure, but will know when I pull the Nut. If it will tighten on another Stud, then FOR SURE sure the lower-in-front-of-center Stud is stripped close to the Washer.

What to do about this?

Option 1: Remove all the Nuts and Washers and take the Manifolds back off, and replace the Stud. And while I'm at it, replace ALL the Studs and Brass Nuts. That would be the "RIGHT" thing to do.

OR...

Option 2: Put a stack of Washers on the Stud so that the Nut would be back in good threads where it would tighten. That would NOT be the "RIGHT" Thing to do, but it would work and would be the "EASIEST".

And right now, I'm tempted to just do the easiest thing because I'm of the opinion that am going to have to be replacing the Manifold Gaskets in the NEAR future, going to a better sealing Gasket.

All this comes under the heading of: "Why Can't Anything Be Easy?".

Whaddaya think?

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#325 Old 04-15-2012, 02:06 PM
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Option 2: Put a stack of Washers on the Stud so that the Nut would be back in good threads where it would tighten. That would NOT be the "RIGHT" Thing to do, but it would work and would be the "EASIEST".

I was thinking that before I actually got to the part to read it. That's the way I would do it for now.

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#326 Old 04-15-2012, 02:58 PM
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I was thinking that before I actually got to the part to read it.
Hey Al,
It WOULD seem to be the easiest way to do it, WOULDN'T it? But there is just ONE LITTLE GLITCH in THAT idea...

Quote:
That's the way I would do it for now.
That's the way I would do it too, were it NOT for the ONE LITTLE GLITCH..

"WHAT GLITCH?", you may well ask.

Well, it isn't the STUD that is stripped. It's the Nut that is stripped! In fact it's TWO Nuts that are stripped! And EVERY Nut that gets put on THAT particular Stud will get stripped!

The Stud isn't stripped, but it has a cutting edge on it that is taking the threads out of any Brass Nut that gets threaded onto it, and it is so sharp that it will do it when just turning the Nut with a Socket on a Screw Driver Handle! Don't know HOW it got to be like that.

Lorrie is presently back to "square one".

All the Nuts and Washers are sitting in order on the Seat. The Intake/Exhaust Manifold is sitting four inches away from the Cylinder Head. The Gasket is back in the Cardboard Container in which it came. And the next thing is to remove ALL the Studs, and take them and the Nuts to NAPA tomorrow (if it isn't raining), and get all NEW Studs and all NEW Brass Nuts.

That's the BAD NEWS.

NOW for the GOOD NEWS: I've gotten so good at doing this that it's no big deal anymore. It's going to get done RIGHT.

And Lorrie is just enjoying the hell out of doing this kind of thing. I mean, she is getting MORE attention than North Korea, George Zimmerman, and Lindsey Lohan combined!
She just LOVES it when I have to put my hand under her Manifold's "hot box" to retrieve a Washer or Nut!!!!

Anyway, am taking a break, then am going to clean up the Nuts and Washers, then pick up the tools, and maybe if I feel like it, I'll take all the Studs out of the Cylinder Head. Am going to do that with a pair of Vise Grips. It's going to bugger up the threads, but they are going to be replaced anyway. Am hoping that none of them will break off.

Will let you know how things go.

Hang in there everyone.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#327 Old 04-15-2012, 03:43 PM
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Well, it isn't the STUD that is stripped. It's the Nut that is stripped! In fact it's TWO Nuts that are stripped! And EVERY Nut that gets put on THAT particular Stud will get stripped!

The Stud isn't stripped, but it has a cutting edge on it that is taking the threads out of any Brass Nut that gets threaded onto it, and it is so sharp that it will do it when just turning the Nut with a Socket on a Screw Driver Handle! Don't know HOW it got to be like that.

Do you really need brass nuts? Why can't you use steel with a little anti-seize on the studs? I've never seen brass used for that application before.

If you screw up the studs taking them out, you'll really be in deep do-do.

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#328 Old 04-15-2012, 05:57 PM
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Do you really need brass nuts?
Hey Al,
That's the way the Slant Six came from the factory. There's a REASON, but I can't tell you what it is.

Quote:
Why can't you use steel with a little anti-seize on the studs?
It's not impossible to do, but there has to be a reason for the Brass Nuts. Will try to find out what it is.

Quote:
I've never seen brass used for that application before.
These are the ORIGINAL Studs and the ORIGINAL Brass Nuts that were on Lorrie when she came to live with me.

Quote:
If you screw up the studs taking them out, you'll really be in deep do-do.
No, no, no. The Studs are a stock item and can be had NEW. That's why they're coming out is so that NEW ones can be installed.

Or do you mean that if one or more break off that THAT will be being in deep do-do.

Don't think that they will break off because three of them came out rather than have the Brass Nut thread off of them. They come out rather easily.

Anyway, will get back to you on the reason for the Brass Nuts.

I've been resting this afternoon. I'm feeling better.

JC

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#329 Old 04-15-2012, 06:01 PM
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Or do you mean that if one or more break off that THAT will be being in deep do-do.

Don't think that they will break off because three of them came out rather than have the Brass Nut thread off of them. They come out rather easily.

Yes, that is what I meant, but it looks like it isn't a problem. I'll be interested in knowing why brass nuts have to be used.

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#330 Old 04-15-2012, 06:25 PM
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Yes, that is what I meant, but it looks like it isn't a problem. I'll be interested in knowing why brass nuts have to be used.
Hey Al,
Just did a search on the Slant Six Forum (that's where SlantSixDan is the guru), and the only reason that was found was: Because they don't "bond" to the Studs. As if THAT mattered!

But NOW, what IF the Studs break off in the Cylinder Head? Just because three of them came out easily doesn't mean that the other ten (there are thirteen of the little buggers) will come out. The other thing about them is that they all open into the Water Jacket of the Head. So they COULD be rusted in there pretty hard.

Maybe the idea of replacing all of them should be re-thought. Maybe what is needed is a "Die" to clean up the threads on the offending Stud. Could get THAT (hopefully) at the Hardware Store here locally. And maybe they have Brass Nuts too!

Also, the threads on the Studs and in the Brass Nuts is NOT a standard thread. It is finer than standard. But that should not be a problem because all kinds of threads are regular items.

Am not having any problem with any of the OTHER Studs. Finding a Die that would straighten out the threads on that one Stud would be a lot simpler than changing all of them out, wouldn't it? A lot less risky, wouldn't have to go to Livingston, etc. etc.

Anyway, am hearing thunder in the distance.

Hope you are well.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#331 Old 04-15-2012, 06:33 PM
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Maybe the idea of replacing all of them should be re-thought. Maybe what is needed is a "Die" to clean up the threads on the offending Stud. Could get THAT (hopefully) at the Hardware Store here locally. And maybe they have Brass Nuts too!

Also, the threads on the Studs and in the Brass Nuts is NOT a standard thread. It is finer than standard. But that should not be a problem because all kinds of threads are regular items.

Am not having any problem with any of the OTHER Studs. Finding a Die that would straighten out the threads on that one Stud would be a lot simpler than changing all of them out, wouldn't it? A lot less risky, wouldn't have to go to Livingston, etc. etc.

That would be a lot less riskier if you can indeed find a die that would do the job for you. Better to mess with one stud than the complete set.

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#332 Old 04-15-2012, 06:42 PM
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That would be a lot less riskier if you can indeed find a die that would do the job for you. Better to mess with one stud than the complete set.
Hey Al,
Have just posted that question on Slant Six Forum for the gurus there to answer. Will not get an answer immediately though. It's going to be raining here this evening and maybe tomorrow, so am content to just let Lorrie sit for a while. Will take the opportunity to rest up a bit.

Talk with you tomorrow.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#333 Old 04-15-2012, 06:46 PM
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Hey Al,
Have just posted that question on Slant Six Forum for the gurus there to answer. Will not get an answer immediately though. It's going to be raining here this evening and maybe tomorrow, so am content to just let Lorrie sit for a while. Will take the opportunity to rest up a bit.

Talk with you tomorrow.

JC
Ok Bud talk to you tomorrow. I need to get off the computer also. My back is killing me. On a good note it's suppose to get into the high 70's here tomorrow!

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#334 Old 04-16-2012, 09:00 AM
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Ok Bud talk to you tomorrow. I need to get off the computer also. My back is killing me. On a good note it's suppose to get into the high 70's here tomorrow!
Hey Al,
Raining here today.

Got a reply from Slant Six Dan about the Brass Nuts. Without Brass Nuts, the small Studs on the Slant Six break easily. Am thinking that getting a proper sized Die and re-threading the Stud that is in there is probably the best thing to do.

Am still thinking about the problem.

Anyway, will let you know what transpires today.

Hope you enjoy your nice weather.

JC

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#335 Old 04-16-2012, 10:51 AM
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Got a reply from Slant Six Dan about the Brass Nuts. Without Brass Nuts, the small Studs on the Slant Six break easily. Am thinking that getting a proper sized Die and re-threading the Stud that is in there is probably the best thing to do.

Interesting! I learned something new today..

Now their saying it will get into the mid 80's here today.

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#336 Old 04-16-2012, 12:32 PM
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Interesting! I learned something new today..
Hey Al,
Well, it's getting weirder and weirder!

Went out and put the Steel Nut that goes on the top center Stud of the Intake Manifold on the offending Stud. It went right on as smooth as silk!

So then put one of the OTHER Brass Nuts on the offending Stud, and it too went on smooth as silk.

Am NOW starting to believe that what happened was that the two Brass Nuts that ended up being stripped were cross-threaded. But they weren't hard to turn, and they both stripped out at less then 5 ft/lbs of torque.

Am going to go back through the process of preparing the "lollipop" Triangular Washer arrangement, getting the Gasket put back on, and giving the Studs their coating of Neva-Seez, and then get Robert to come back and help me put the Manifold back into place, and see if the whole thing will go as planned. Have enough Brass Nuts to do the whole thing.

Will let you know how it goes.

Quote:
Now their saying it will get into the mid 80's here today.
See where they're going to run the Boston Marathon today, and it's supposed to be 90 degrees there! And then they've got snow up in the Dakotas today!

Have you noticed that the weather has been weird ever since Newt Gingrich announced that he was running for POTUS?

Anyway, hang in there.

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#337 Old 04-16-2012, 01:54 PM
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Hey All,
Monday Afternoon Update:

Am all set to reinstall the Intake/Exhaust Manifolds.

Have all the bottom Triangular Washers "lollipopped".

Have the Intake/Exhaust Manifold Gasket installed on the Cylinder Head Studs.

Have all the Studs liberally coated with Neva-Seez.

Am waiting for neighbor Robert to come help me put the Intake/Exhaust Manifolds onto the Cylinder Head Studs.

Am going to take EXTRA care to make sure that no Brass Nuts get cross-threaded.

Am just taking a break while waiting for Robert.

Will keep you all updated as events occur.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - A727 Torqueflite Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - HEI Ignition System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System
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#338 Old 04-16-2012, 04:11 PM
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Well lets hope all goes well this time.

I went up to Karan's and mowed today along with a few odd jobs that needed to get done. The temperature got to 88 and I said that was enough for one day.

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#339 Old 04-16-2012, 04:43 PM
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Well lets hope all goes well this time.
Hey Al,
Am still awaiting Robert's arrival. Alas, his brother in law who attempted suicide a couple of weeks ago by crashing his car into a parked 18 wheeler, only to wind up in the hospital, finally died this afternoon. So Robert may not make it today as he is dealing with a dire family situation.

Quote:
I went up to Karan's and mowed today along with a few odd jobs that needed to get done.
Didn't think that being on the "outs" with Karan would last very long! Or are you still on the "outs" but are as addicted to grass cutting as you are to snow shoveling?

Quote:
The temperature got to 88 and I said that was enough for one day.
Now you know what I have to go through for six to eight months out of each year!

It's still raining here. But is supposed to clear up tomorrow. I NEED to go to the store. HAVE to do that as soon as it's not raining.

Take it easy.

JC

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#340 Old 04-16-2012, 05:40 PM
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Didn't think that being on the "outs" with Karan would last very long! Or are you still on the "outs" but are as addicted to grass cutting as you are to snow shoveling?



We patched things up for the time being, We actually have a vacation scheduled the end of July to the New England states. If we make it that long together.

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