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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 03-29-2012, 11:56 AM
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Post #101

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03lowram View Post

Thanks for the heads up!
What size tires are on your track set?

27.5" Mickey T Street ET's 295/45R17 (x4)


Ground Force 2/3 drop on my 4x4
(about a 1" front, 3-1/2" rear drop)

but with the extra drop on lower tires all around it sits like 4/6

Look's mean as hell in track trim

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71'dart
 
 Posted: 03-29-2012, 08:03 PM
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Post #102

Sorry to Hijack but are the ports on BBK's mismatched for third gens too?

Are JBA's matched for third gens? thanks for the replies
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03lowram
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 04:02 PM
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Post #103

You get them on yet???
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MGRAM-10
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 06:21 PM
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Post #104

I think BRH got them installed
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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 06:55 PM
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Post #105

Done!

Huge prop's to MGRAM-10!
Thanks Buddy it would have been brutal without you.











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Talon_66
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 07:55 PM
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Post #106

Damn looks good!
I cant believe Jbs wants $600 for uncoated headers and thats with a discount!
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MGRAM-10
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 08:25 PM
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Post #107

It was good times, always like learning the best way of installing my headers definitely good mod and well worth the money. Can't wait to install mine now
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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 09:13 PM
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Post #108

When I picked up my Mopar gaskets at the dealership
I inquired about how many hours the job would book for, 6 hours. (at $130/hr...Ouch!)

My Ram has seen two brutal canuck winters and it's nasty underneath, dirty and rusty.
I had lots of lube on all the bolts and exhaust hangers, so getting the old hardware off was not much an issue,
a ratchet strap to pull the entire exhaust (cats back) was a huge help.

Just getting the headers into position with the Mopar gaskets was a challenge that needed four hands.

We definitely had to make some hardware adjustments for the drivers side,
dip stick fitment issues meant trimming the length and re-using the front top stock bolt,
getting the cat flange bolt into the hole required grinding part of the bolt head. (lower bolt hit header)

Power/air tools are of no use or benefit, so this took much longer than when I did my GF drop kit
even having new ratchet wrenches was only good for half the bolts.

You need small hands, stubby open end wrenches for many of the bolts
and a TON of patience to turn them an 8th turn at a time.

One a good note, we did manage to wrangle the drivers side header into place without removing the dipstick or the steering shaft.
That's the header that I thought would give us the most trouble, tight fit though and lots of obstructions including brake lines.

The passenger side upper bolt, 2nd from the rear by far added the most stress and time to the job, glad Brad tackled that one

At least we know what's required to do Brad's now,
hopefully that will shave an hour or more off our install time on his.

I sure dont want to do this again any time soon,
So if someone ever comes out with a cheaper LT header, it better be Real Good, and real cheap!


Too soon perhaps to report performance changes,
but the highway home showed the biggest difference is going to be in the uppper end.
Just guessing until I can get to the track, but it appears the sweet spot for these is 4500-5800 rpm
...which is what I'm looking for, already have an Awesome torque converter for my low end torque/launch.
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dmcelhannon
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 09:38 PM
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Post #109

I thought the mid-tubes were better for the low to mid range not the upper rpm band.

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2002 Ram 1500 SLT 4x4 QC ~ 02 Ram 45RFE to Jeep GC TCM 5-45RFE Upgrade - (Nov.01) 4.7L with 85K/3142hrs, Knolton Thunder Cylinder Heads & HO Cams by Sawcut, 4.56 R&P/DTT, SRT-10 Pod w/Dynojet Wideband Commander, 2-speed manual transfer case, Clifford Security System w/Auto Start/Auto Windows, RB1 CD/DVD/NAV Infinity Sound System w/30GB iPod, Offroad Package, 33" BFG T/A KO, Mopar Rear Wheel Liners, EBC Greenstuff Roadsport Brake Pads, K&N w/Airaid Jr Modular Intake Tube, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, AIR_RAM Jet Stream Scoop, PML Diff Cover, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, MSD 1.65 Alt Pulley, V8 Lincoln E-Fan, FK-60 E-Fan Controller w/relay, 180 Jet T-Stat, Flowmaster SI/DO Exhaust, Tire-2-Tire Chrome Tuber Step, Line of Fire LED Light Bar, Sylvania Ultra Silverstars, $1600 Oil Pickup Tube

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with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.


~ Waiting to fix my Ram! ~ 2-Years 85-Days and Counting! ~


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compressor man
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 09:48 PM
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Post #110

Aren't they fun, they are a PITA on the 3rd gens too, just takes some patience. On my 07, I noticed the power around 3500+ was strong, especially with no cats. Hope they improve your times, I was planning on a track day tomorrow but the rain is on its way in just long enough to ruin the day.
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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 10:20 PM
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Post #111

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcelhannon View Post
I thought the mid-tubes were better for the low to mid range not the upper rpm band.

grabbed from a couple different sources,
I can provide links later

Quote:

At the low to mid end, the best way to maximize your scavenging effect, thus helping to maximize your engine's V.E., Is to move the exhuast out of the engine as fast as possible, or with as much velocity as possible. Long tubes work best for this because of their length, and their width (well, lack of width). Thier length allows an elongated path for the gas to flow, thus allowing the gas to leave the cylinder with more speed because the gas has more time to gain velocity before it hits the collector.

Now, you've heard car enthusiasts state that ANY restriction is bad for a motor, no matter what. This is not completly true, in your exhaust, small, strategically placed, smooth mandrel restrictions can be a good thing due to the fact that well place, correct sized restrictions followed by larger openings actually speed up exhuast gas flow. So the smaller diameter tubes actually serve your scavenging better in the mid and low ranges.

Mid and low ranges dont produce alot of actual exhuast volume, so small tubes dont restrict or "back up" flow.

LARGE, SHORT TUBE HEADERS MAKE FOR "LAZY" EXHUAST GAS SPEED WHEN EXHUAST VOLUME IS LOW!! (as it is in the low and mid range).

However, if you dont even begin to tip into your power band untill about 3700, you may consider short tubes. High RPM operation in a big motor (not talking about 4 bangers here), yeild LARGE amounts of exhuast gas discharge. THIS is where you need the larger diameter tubes, to get more volume out of the cylinder. THIS is where you can loose power due to pumping losses on the exhuast stroke. In an ideal world, your exhuast system would be soooo effective, that by the time that pistion STARTS coming up on the exhuast stroke, your ports and headers will have scavenged all exhuast gas out of the cylinder during the duration of the exhuast pulse. If there's no sizable amount to push out, there in a low pressure area in the cylinder (also known as vacuum), almost causing a "pulling up" affect on the piston. So, your not loosing power by pushing, your gaining power by being pulled.
Quote:
Short vs. Long Tubes
The guiding principle behind headers is called "scavenging." By carefully choosing the length, diameter, and sometimes the way the header tubes are paired, the velocity of the exhaust gas pulses can create a "siphoning" effect behind them as they travel down the tubes. That helps clear more exhaust gas from the cylinder and creates a partial vacuum. When the intake valve opens, the cylinder can "inhale" a larger charge of air. With more air, an increased charge of fuel can be added for more power. Headers may also reduce pumping losses, making it easier for the piston to "push" the exhaust from the cylinder and out the pipe. Scavenging also works as the exhaust pulses move down the exhaust pipes.
Generally, the longer the individual tubes, the more scavenging occurs at lower speeds. In theory, this gives the long-tube headers a longer, broader torque curve that starts at a lower rpm. The shorties will be more suited to higher rpm, and perhaps stellar at one narrow rpm band where all the physics come together.
You can also compare ARH's Dyno results (on a 4G Hemi)
to the JBA numbers (net gains (on a 3G Hemi)
and note at which rpm range power/torque numbers are best.


ARH dyno chart shows the LT's gain 16 HP, 41 ft.-lbs Torque

(click pic to open larger image)



I found a dyno chart for a 3G 03' 5.7L Hemi Ram 1500 with JBA shorites...

gain of 15 HP, 14 ft-lbs Torque : (pretty consistent across the entire RPM range)

JBA Shorty


and that's on a 3G where the stock manifold doesnt look half as restrictive as the 4G



4G stock iron log


Now consider, all things being equal,
if you swap out the stock pinched Y for a $30 Maggy with a Shorty Header,
so it more closely matches the ARH LT configuration...the numbers will get better.

Makes coated shorties look like a pretty good bang for the buck at $555 IMHO.

LT ARH's with ceramic coating would run me close to $2k up here,
sorry that's not in my budget right now, maybe never.

The LT's appear to add more low RPM Torque, for $1500 more
I chose to swap in a higher 3K stall torque converter for $500 instead and it dropped 3 tenths off my 60' times.
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Last edited by BlackRamHemi : 03-31-2012 at 10:33 PM.
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Talon_66
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 10:24 PM
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Post #112

Good. Now you guys can help on my install.
If its anything.like my past installs u shave an hour plus off each time.

Ex. Turbo down pipe first time 4.5 hrs. By the 3+ time 1 hr
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dmcelhannon
 
 Posted: 03-31-2012, 11:22 PM
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Post #113

Long tubes are unicorns for us 4.7L folks.

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2002 Ram 1500 SLT 4x4 QC ~ 02 Ram 45RFE to Jeep GC TCM 5-45RFE Upgrade - (Nov.01) 4.7L with 85K/3142hrs, Knolton Thunder Cylinder Heads & HO Cams by Sawcut, 4.56 R&P/DTT, SRT-10 Pod w/Dynojet Wideband Commander, 2-speed manual transfer case, Clifford Security System w/Auto Start/Auto Windows, RB1 CD/DVD/NAV Infinity Sound System w/30GB iPod, Offroad Package, 33" BFG T/A KO, Mopar Rear Wheel Liners, EBC Greenstuff Roadsport Brake Pads, K&N w/Airaid Jr Modular Intake Tube, BBK 70mm Throttle Body, AIR_RAM Jet Stream Scoop, PML Diff Cover, ASP Underdrive Crank Pulley, MSD 1.65 Alt Pulley, V8 Lincoln E-Fan, FK-60 E-Fan Controller w/relay, 180 Jet T-Stat, Flowmaster SI/DO Exhaust, Tire-2-Tire Chrome Tuber Step, Line of Fire LED Light Bar, Sylvania Ultra Silverstars, $1600 Oil Pickup Tube

Texas 1845: We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging,
with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.


~ Waiting to fix my Ram! ~ 2-Years 85-Days and Counting! ~


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03lowram
 
 Posted: 04-01-2012, 10:23 AM
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Post #114

Thanks for the info man! Glad your seeing good results already! My JBAs should be here next week sometime! Could you tell a difference in the exhaust tone at all? Any drone?
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Ghostknife
 
 Posted: 04-02-2012, 12:49 AM
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Post #115

i want JBAs!
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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 04-02-2012, 08:38 AM
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Post #116

I didn't get any miles on her yesterday, woke up to 3" of snow .

The drive to the office this morning in the cool air was Awesome!
Once I pop the cover off my lower bumper ram air scoops it's going to Rock!
I cant wait to hit the track to confirm its not just in my head (butt dyno).
It feels like it pulls much harder from any speed, any gear, the more I drive it.

The exhaust note through my magnaflow is a little deeper while warming up,
and there is a little more drone, but only under load.
Once I hit cruising speed it was just a nice quiet rumble that you can barely notice with the stereo on.

After a spirited drive to work I popped the hood and checked under the hood.
The ceramic coating really keeps the temps down, can put my fingers within a half inch of the pipes before I feel any significant heat.


install was a royal pain, but the results are worth it so far.
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03lowram
 
 Posted: 04-02-2012, 09:31 AM
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Post #117

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRamHemi View Post
I didn't get any miles on her yesterday, woke up to 3" of snow .

The drive to the office this morning in the cool air was Awesome!
Once I pop the cover off my lower bumper ram air scoops it's going to Rock!
I cant wait to hit the track to confirm its not just in my head (butt dyno).
It feels like it pulls much harder from any speed, any gear, the more I drive it.

The exhaust note through my magnaflow is a little deeper while warming up,
and there is a little more drone, but only under load.
Once I hit cruising speed it was just a nice quiet rumble that you can barely notice with the stereo on.

After a spirited drive to work I popped the hood and checked under the hood.
The ceramic coating really keeps the temps down, can put my fingers within a half inch of the pipes before I feel any significant heat.


install was a royal pain, but the results are worth it so far.
I just got really excited reading all that! My headers will be here this week, along with my cutouts!
Does it feel like the truck runs a lot easier now? After getting rid of the factory log?
Im glad im not doing the install, having my exhaust shop put mine on for $120. Cant beat that.. lol
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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 04-02-2012, 09:40 AM
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Post #118

I mostly notice that gains at mid-higher rpm's on my truck
because my torque converter already makes the lower end seem effortless.
...any more than half throttle is enough to light up the rear tires.


$120 that's a steal!

local dealer books a stock manifold swap for 6 hours.
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03lowram
 
 Posted: 04-02-2012, 10:02 AM
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Post #119

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRamHemi View Post
I mostly notice that gains at mid-higher rpm's on my truck
because my torque converter already makes the lower end seem effortless.
...any more than half throttle is enough to light up the rear tires.


$120 that's a steal!

local dealer books a stock manifold swap for 6 hours.
Ya, I only take my truck to the dealer for free oil changes.. lol
Performance and Trucks go hand & hand down here in Houston. So there's a lot of performance shops that cut good deals.

Like we talked about before, Ill be ordering that Edge stall soon!! You gotta make a new Video for us!
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BlackRamHemi
 
 Posted: 04-02-2012, 11:54 AM
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Post #120

We're doing Brad's install on Friday, (weather permitting)
and it should only be 3 hours this time.

I've already got an email in to our local Diablo CMR to book some time on his Dyno (for both trucks)
Depending on his schedule and prices, we may even spend a few extra bucks for a custom tuning session.
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