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BRC1
 
  Ever heard of A/C bypass pulley - Posted: 06-25-2010, 05:24 PM
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Post #1

Hi All
I have a 84 dodge B350 with 5.9L w/AC. I would like to remove (permanently) the A/C compressor but I need an idler pulley to maintain the alternator belt tension and path. I believe such a pulley and braket were made because not all 360s had A/C. What I am trying to find out is; would that pulley & bracket be the same for other sizes of dodge V8s or do I have to find a specific 360 bracket. If anyone out there has ever seen or heard of such an animal, please give me an idea of what I am looking for. Thanks in advance for any help.
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-25-2010, 11:45 PM
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Post #2

You really don't need an idler. You can run one (correctly sized) belt just to the alternator. It will clear. The double belt is necessary to turn both the AC comp. and the alternator but you can get by with running just one belt for the alternator. I did this on a '77 B300 with the compressor removed and also have just one belt on my present '91 B250 ride. The compressor is inop and still in place. I'll check tomorrow to see if I can find the belt # that will work.
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BRC1
 
 Posted: 06-25-2010, 11:58 PM
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Post #3

Van, That is really good news. If you can find that belt # that would be great. does it matter which pulley grove you run the belt in? I would assume the one closest to the alternator front bearing would be best option. Thanks for the advice. BRC
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alloro
 
 Posted: 06-26-2010, 11:59 AM
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Post #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRC1 View Post
the one closest to the alternator front bearing would be best option.
You're correct, doing so provides less strain on the bearing. Not much mind you, but every little bit helps. If it were me, I'd still run both belts only because seeing that empty pulley groove would look like something is missing, and that would drive me nuts.
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-26-2010, 12:55 PM
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Well,sorry... I can't find the receipt for the belt and the numbers on the belt (0323 413, 0323 414, 0323 415, 0323 416 and 0323 417) and also 2168, don't cross to anything on Autozone's site. If you're not in a hurry, I may still run across the receipt.

What I had to do originally was to wrap an old (longer) belt around the pulleys,then cut it down to fit and then have the parts guy measure that with a belt gauge.

You do have to use the outer pulley groove for it to clear. It really wouldn't stress the bearing any more than two belts would. But if OCD leads to undue "stress" on your sensibilities ...then this is not the way to go.

Last edited by VanMoreSon : 06-26-2010 at 01:31 PM. Reason: more info
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landyacht318
 
 Posted: 06-26-2010, 01:56 PM
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Post #6

I just left the Inop AC compressor in place, but I would like to replace it with a second separately regulated alternator for my house batteries, one day, when I win the lottery.

I've only been running one belt for years.

And yes, there is a nut loose behind the wheel.
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-26-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by landyacht318 View Post
I've only been running one belt for years.
Same here but anymore donuts and cheeseburgers and I may need to splice two together...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, BRC1: The belt on my '91 B250 w/318 is a 15480 Duralast at Autozone. I believe it's a 48" belt. BUT, I also found a receipt for an Advance #47515 that I bought for an '87 B150 w/318 that I owned a couple of years ago. That number would indicate a 51.5" belt. The '91 has a newer type alt. adjusting bolt setup and IIRC, the '87 (and your '84) would use the old "prybar method". Anyway, there may be some difference. To be sure you get the right belt, you may want to see if they have both belts and make the change in the AZ or Advance parking lot. Hope this isn't too confusing...anyway, it can be done without the idler.

Last edited by VanMoreSon : 06-26-2010 at 03:12 PM.
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BRC1
 
 Posted: 06-27-2010, 04:16 PM
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Post #8

Van, Thanks for all your effort. Here is what i did. I took your advise and cut an old belt that I had in the garage and wrapped it around the alteranator and the drive pulley. I had moved the alternator a closer on the adjustment braket and it measured about 47.75 inches. I took one of the old belts to the "real parts store" had them match to belt for profile and got a 48" and 48.5. I tried the 48.5" and it put the the alternator right back to where it was to start with. ( I still have plenty of adjustment left to adjust the belt when necessary.) The belt I got was a Dayco "Top Cog". There are 2 numbers on the cardboard sleeve. 15485 and below that in slightly smaller font the number 11A1230. I havn't driven much but i did start the engine and all seems ok. I did start another thread [somewhat related to this] about removing the a/c compressor. Thanks again for all the help. you saved me many hours of looking through pick and pull for a bypass pulley and bracket. for the cost of a single belt.
Cheers BRC
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B-300
 
 Posted: 06-29-2010, 12:57 AM
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Post #9

FYI: 15485, The first two digits (15) is the belt width in 32's of an inch, the last three (485) are the length in inches which you found out.
There is a A/C idler eliminator that will fit the V-6 and 318-360 V-8's (non-magnums). I have seen them on older 80's Dakotas.
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-29-2010, 11:33 PM
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Post #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyacht318 View Post
... I would like to replace it with a second separately regulated alternator for my house batteries...
Have you seen a setup like this anywhere? A link,maybe?
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B-300
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 12:32 AM
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Post #11

Looking to run a second alternator eh? If you have no use for AC you could modify the AC bracket to hold a second alternator, using two belts preferably.

I suppose an air pump bracket could do the same with a single belt.
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landyacht318
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 01:01 AM
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Post #12

I have only seen dual alternator systems on boats. I would not imagine it is too difficult to get an additional one aligned properly. I hear some of the smaller Japanese alternators can make big numbers and not take up much space, not that the Ac compressor is very small mind you.

I would enjoy having an alternator not regulated by the engine computer, and one designed for good amperage at lower rpms.

Something like this that has 3 stage charging and a battery temp sensor.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...6421&id=819489
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B-300
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 02:23 AM
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Post #13

That alternator looks like a Nippondenso pictured in this thread. www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262704
I found one so new that it still had the autozone tag on it in a junkyard for $25 + core which is much less than that on the your link.
(It's the large one of the 3 used on TBI engines with dual V-belts.)
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 11:48 AM
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I have an 80A Nippo from a Camry that was setup as a "poor boy" generator driven by a 5hp Chinese Honda clone motor. It worked great except the pulley chewed up belts pretty fast because of the hack job I did on a makeshift pulley (it had the wide, serpentine version). It'd be nice to get a proper pulley as on that marine link and experiment with a dual alt. setup.

($824 and whole 1 year warranty!)
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landyacht318
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 12:11 PM
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Post #15

I would want the 3 stage voltage regulator more than the Balmar alternator. I feel that the voltage regulators built into the ECM's on our vans drop the voltage prematurely, because it is safer to do so.

I do not know if those regulators, which are pretty pricey themselves, work with other makes of alternators, though I would assume so.

Though Lead Acid batteries have been around a long time now, it seems that the knowledge of how to properly charge them has come a long way in the last 15 years with multiple stage charging, and some battery manufacturers posting the ideal acceptance and float voltages for their make and models.

Too bad that the quality of most batteries has dropped significantly with the maximum profit at any cost mentality which has pervaded our culture.

If I do ever add an additional alternator in place of the AC compressor, I will likely use an inexpensive alternator, and have an adjustable voltage regulator.
I would never pay 834$ for the setup I posted a link to above.

I had a link bookmarked to a remotely adjustable voltage regulator, but somehow lost it.
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alloro
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 12:31 PM
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Post #16

I'm curious as to why one would install a second alternator in place of the A/C compressor instead of installing a 120/220 volt generator? Having the generator installed opens up a world of other item to be able to power, plus it could run battery chargers to recharge the auxiliary batteries.
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landyacht318
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 12:47 PM
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Simply space. Even the small quiet Honda 1000 (900$)takes up a lot more space than an alternator. If my AC still worked I would obviously not remove it to add an alternator, but since it is basically just a pulley, I would like to remove the ecm voltage regulator from my house batteries, without lighting my CEL.

But in reality, with my solar and upgraded wiring, I do not need to add another alternator, just saying it could be done, and If I did not have solar it would be more imperative to do so to be able to get any life out of the batteries. Because the OEM charging circuit is insufficient for recharging a bank of deep cycle batteries. With the OEM wiring being the first weak link, followed by the ECM's voltage regulator, then the alternator itself.

What I am wondering is if Alternators for Vans with serpentine belts are wound differently, because the pulley is significantly smaller with a serpentine pulley, and thus must turn much faster, and probably charge a whole lot better at lower rpms than a 74 mm V belt pulley, unless the rotor and stator are wound differently to compensate for this.
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 12:55 PM
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Post #18

Space and weight. Plus added cost for fuel,upkeep,depreciation. A generator is good when you're parked for a while. If you're moving around a lot, the 2nd. alternator could make sense with multiple cabin batteries.
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B-300
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 03:25 PM
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I have looked at the newer (serpentine) and older (dual V-belt) versions in the junkyard and didn't see a winding difference.
I suspect the serpentine pulley is smaller to produce more output at low RPM because thes were used on magnum engines with 8 injectors to open, a real idle motor, and almost all of them have OD which lowers engine rpm when cruising.
In addition to that the fuel pump operates at higher pressure (59 vs 14.5) and some of the newer vans also have electric windows too.
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VanMoreSon
 
 Posted: 06-30-2010, 05:08 PM
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Post #20

With a dedicated alt. to charge two cabin batteries, I wonder if a 10 mile roundrip (at 45mph) to town would juice 'em up much?
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