Braking Trouble

[rice_eater]

Ok... Heres what it does: At highway speeds (or higher :D ) if i hit the brakes even remotely quickly, the car's right front dives slightly (just a little more than the left front) and then the car pulls HARD left, then straightens out. Its like the left front is grabbing AFTER the right front, yet harder. The best way to describe the entire action is a dog quick shaking water off itself - thats what it feels like, as if the car is the dog!!! It is so severe it will pull me partway into the oncoming lane if i dont countersteer right, but it doesnt continue to pull. After that initial direction change, it stays straight as an arrow. The only way it wont cut left, is if i ease onto the brakes softly, something i wont be able to do if i actually have to slow or stop quickly at those speeds.

Can someone point me in the right direction, what components should I check out? I'm assuming it has something to do with the front brakes (i have disc/drum brakes if that makes a difference), since it is so severe. The pads were fine last summer (they were infact new as of last year) and looked fine last time i checked them as well. The brakes do not squeel at all, and there is hardly any vibration in the pedal when braking. I do know, however, that the rotors were NOT turned when the pads were replaced. (dont ask why... I dont know - previous owner) The rotors do feel kind of wavy when i run my hand over them (up-down, not around the rotor), but they both do, so i didnt think that could be the cause of the sudden pull. Could it be something with the caliper? the porportioning valve? I'm kind of lost when it comes to the braking systems.... all i know is the calipers squeeze the rotors and the car stops, LOL. Any and all help is appreciated, thanks.

[RadarLove]

Checked tire pressures?

[rice_eater]

Ok, the right front was a little low. Now the front tires are pumped to 38psi, and the rear tires are at 37 psi. I went out and tested the braking after checking tire pressure, and the dip and dive motion is lessened slightly, but the car still pitches left. It is more stable, but i think the low tire pressure was just amplifying an already existing brake problem. What should i look at? It seems like the left front is either grabbing sooner or harder than the right front... (or the right front is grabbing later/softer).

[RadarLove]

I would start cheap...

- Check to make sure all the lug nuts are tight, preferably with a torque wrench. While you're at it, take a good look at the condition of the tires and wheels. Ya never know.
- Use just the parking brake, see if it's something with the rear drums. Won't tell you if there's a proportioning valve issue, just whether or not it's time to tear those beasts apart... The system is diagonally split, with LF/RR on one line, RF/LR on the other line (according to the FSM anyways).
- Pull the front pads and check to make sure they're in good condition (ditto with the rotors). Since you'll have them off, bleed the brakes to get rid of any old fluid or air (speed bleeders are awesome for this, by the way). First though, apply the brakes and release, then turn one wheel, then crack the bleeder valve and shut it again, and turn the wheel again. If it's easier, hydraulic pressure was built up (replace all the fluid in this case). Also make sure the pistons go in smoothly on both sides. Take a really good look at the rubber lines for signs of weak rubber (bubble forming under load). If you need to replace parts, do so. I've never turned the rotors, I get new ones every time, which isn't really all that often.
- Salvage yard proportioning valve... If you have disc/drum without ABS, it'll have a black band (400/.43). All others have a gold band (400/.34).
- If you have to replace the calipers, the ones on the '98-'99 are a little bit stiffer than earlier years (identified by the painted/coated black instead of the silver).
- There's the off chance that the master cylinder may not be releasing fully, although I don't really see how that would make it go only to one side... All of the disc/drum setups use the 21mm cylinder bore, where the disc/disc setups use the 22.2mm bore. Either will work fine though, just a FYI.
- If you haven't had an alignment in the last year... have I ever mentioned how much I love the lifetime deal from Firestone?...

My old Trooper II had one front caliper piston that was starting to bind. Finally overheated, cracked a pad and welded the piston to the front brake on a particularly hard downhill stop... Ahhh, the good ol' days...

[rice_eater]

The rear shoes were replaced and the drums were resurfaced last fall, but i will check with the e-brake anyway... I'm pretty sure its something to do with the fronts. I'll bleed the brakes this weekend if i get a chance to see if thats the problem, along with checking out everything you've mentioned to the best of my ability. Thanks for the info. If all else fails i know a shop that will check everything for free and tell me whats wrong, if its nothing too major i will then thank them, take it home and do the work myself. :D

[rice_eater]

tried to check the back brakes with the e-brake like you suggested Radar... but ran into a slight problem. with the rear drums, the ebrake does not do much good at slowing the car down, lol, at least not at the deceleration rate that the pull is noticable. They also howl something awfull... That doesnt seem normal. I tested the e-brake later, and found that it doesnt lock the rear wheels completely, even with the lever maxed out (13 clicks?). i can pull forward out of first with it on (i notice its on off course, but the wheels turn none the less, they dont slide) and i can also turn the wheels with a breaker bar when i have the back end in the air with the e-brake locked... Is this just because drums arent as good as discs or is something wrong? Like i said, the shoes are new and the drums were resurfaced last fall...

I will bleed the brakes soon, whenever i get the chance, I'm hoping this is the problem.

[dodgeneonACR98]

http://faq.neons.org/faq/FAQ_S.html

Scroll clean to the bottom of this page and read up on the brakes for these cars. It seems to me that the Rear drums are 16 lbs lighter and the difference in Performance is minimal bettween DISK/DRUM brakes. Hope it helps out!!!! lata

[rice_eater]

AWESOME LINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks ACR98. I had seen that page before but forgot about it. I have decided not to waste money on a rear disc swap now, LOL. Also awesome suspension info.... I'll be finding out exactly how loose the 20mm/16mm sway bar setup is here shortly... IF I CAN EVER FIND A DARN BOLT TO FIT!!!! LOL

Back to brakes though, I'll be bleeding them tomorrow hopefully, and if that doesnt help i'll try putting my summer rims on. Maybe one of the curb beaten stockers is out of balance, LOL. very possible. If that doesnt help i will be taking the car to the local tire shop to get a free brake system check done. They should be able to tell me whats wrong if all else fails.

Side note here.... I should be able to completely lock the rear wheels with the ebrake, shouldnt I? I cant. If i set the e-brake at full lock, i can still pull forward (obviously with more resistance) and the rear wheels dont slide or skid, they turn... accompanied by a loud squealing. I also can not lock them on dry/wet pavement, no matter what speed, only on snow/ice. This does not seem normal. Could by ebrake cable be worn out? I can lock up all four with the regular brakes (no abs), why cant i lock just rears with the ebrake?

[RadarLove]

There should be an adjuster on the back end of the parking brake for tension. I've never really looked, and my center console is gone, LOL!