Hemi, MDS & Syn oil

[PowayRider]

A friend of mine has a Jeep GC with a Hemi and said that synthetic oil is recommended for the MultiDisplacement System.

I did not find that in my book yet, but anyone else know this?

[aries4life]

it doesn't say anything about Synthetic oil in my book...

[fromanhb]

Don't know why you would want to spend 30+ grand on a vehicle and not put anything but the best oil in it! Thats just me though.

[saltracer]

Amen! I even use synthetic in my four cylinder Ranger pickup. I just did the 6000 mile service on my RT today and put in seven quarts of Amsoil 5w-20.
Howard :gr_patrio

[Husker]

It is not required, if you like Dino oil better use it. The only thing that is required is the weight at 5w-20.

[FloridaRT]

I would normally use regular oil in my cars, but since I plan on keeping my Magnum RT for a long time, I switched over to a 5W20 synthetic oil.

Bob

[PowayRider]

I have never really seen any 'objective' study on the comparison of a good quality petroleum oil changed every 4k vs a synthetic changed every 7-10k or whenever. For normal driving. Now if they come back and say the engine bearings and rings will last 300k vs 250k miles - I don't know if I am that concerned. So if someone has a link to an article espousing the benefits of syns (independent of Mobil 1 or AMSoil) I would like to see it.

[magnuman]

PowayRider,
Here's a couple studies (don't know how unbiased they are though, and the first one is Ford related) on oils and filters, a little dated, but still maybe some good info:
http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart6.htm
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/engineoil_bible.html

Don't know, maybe this will help a little.

[MB7055]

In my owners manual it says "You may use synthetic engine oils provided that the recommended oil quality requirements are met and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are followed". I have only had two oil changes so far and have had the dealer do them as part of the 3000 and 6000 mile services.

[desquirrel]

I have never really seen any 'objective' study on the comparison of a good quality petroleum oil changed every 4k vs a synthetic changed every 7-10k or whenever. For normal driving. Now if they come back and say the engine bearings and rings will last 300k vs 250k miles - I don't know if I am that concerned. So if someone has a link to an article espousing the benefits of syns (independent of Mobil 1 or AMSoil) I would like to see it.

Consumer Reports tested FLEETS of taxi cabs in late '70s. Mobil 1 was the only readily available synthetic then. The result: No performance difference in ANY of the oils. If you search on Amsoil you will get 1000:1 advertizing hype to real test. Those guys must have bought up every internet key word possible and provide every one of their dealers with a web site.

In a REAL test of Amsoil I saw, it had absolutely crazy viscosity properties. As it got more mileage the ACTUAL viscosity was several times what it was rated. Not too good for MDS.

[w5blt]

I used standard oil and change it every 3K mi. I've been doing it for 30 years and will probably do it for another 30 years unless there is more convincing evidence that it it that much better. I guess if you tend to ignore your engine and oil changes, it would be an advantage to have synthetic.

[fromanhb]

Consumer Reports tested FLEETS of taxi cabs in late '70s. Mobil 1 was the only readily available synthetic then. The result: No performance difference in ANY of the oils.

Of course your not going to get performance out of oil! its just oil, I use synthetic because it lubricates better I don't nor will ever expect performance out of oil. And another thing is the synthetics used today are MUCH better then anything they had 30 years ago.

[SLAPPY]

i swear by synthetic.dont let anyone tell you that there is no benefit to useing it. i use it in my hemi and in my nissan 4 banger and i can tell they both appreciate the sweet slippery lube.now lets race! on your mark,get set-

[desquirrel]

"it lubricates better"

No, it doesn't.

"My uncle Louie used syn in Betsy for 100,000 miles and nothing bad happened."

Not even worth the effort to type it.

If you make a claim, back it up. Do not parrot advertizing hype.

As stated before, syn is better at temp extremes and extended drains.

[aries4life]

i've seen tests that were evidence enough for me to stop using synthetics. My last vehicle (4.7L Dakota) got nothing but syn until I saw extensive unbiased testing that compared synthetic to dyno oil. I don't care if anybody uses syn, but i'm not until the manufacturer recommends/requires it :D

[w5blt]

i've seen tests that were evidence enough for me to stop using synthetics. My last vehicle (4.7L Dakota) got nothing but syn until I saw extensive unbiased testing that compared synthetic to dyno oil. I don't care if anybody uses syn, but i'm not until the manufacturer recommends/requires it :D

I agree, but, I think that the Viper comes stock with synthetic oil. I'm still not convinced.

[fromanhb]

If you make a claim, back it up. Do not parrot advertizing hype.

I don't need to back it up because even a moron would know that there is a difference. Not only that it does not shear as easily and acids from blowby don't affect it like they dino oils. On top of that the detergent factor in sythetics far exceeds that of standard oil and synthetics hold particals in suspension much better (which reduces deposits). Those are all proven facts, and if you don't believe me go take the intake manifold of 2 V8's with over 100,000 miles and you'll be able to tell which uses synthetic and which uses dino just by the amount of deposits in the lifter valley. Sounds to me like your stuck in the 70's. Its time educate yourself on all the technological advances in 30 years.

[saltracer]

I have a copy of that Consumers Report. Remember that was almost thirty years ago. A lot has changed since then. I use Amsoil in everything I own and have the oil tested periodically at: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ They send you a three page computer printout and charge about twenty bucks.
I have never had a problem with it or any bad results from the testing. I do not believe the story about the viscosity unless it got anti freeze or something in it. A good lab test would tell the story.
If you are only interested in cheap, find the correct viscosity oil on sale and pour it in. I prefer to use the best and we ran our Bonneville car five miles each way at 8000 to 8500 RPM with no problems at all.
Talk to your local race engine shop with a dyno or read the articles in Circle Track, Hot Rod, Car Craft, etc. Most dyno operators will tell you synthetic gives you slightly more horsepower due to lower friction.
Spend your money and make a choice. It does not matter to me.
Howard :gr_patrio

[Husker]

"it lubricates better"

No, it doesn't.

"My uncle Louie used syn in Betsy for 100,000 miles and nothing bad happened."

Not even worth the effort to type it.

If you make a claim, back it up. Do not parrot advertizing hype.

As stated before, syn is better at temp extremes and extended drains.

I disagree, Syn oil has molecules of the exact same size so there for they have to flow better creating better lub...that is microbiology..now if you make the claim it doesn't, please show us your research so we can continue the debate! :)

[stv9000]

To add to what saltracer said, there are many classes of racing that made it illegal to run synthetics. wether it is auto racing or go-cart racing. On the other hand My father has his fathers 64 Studebaker with an Avanti v8 Racing engine (which burns cleaner than most cars today!) with 372,000+ miles on it, Using nothing but Dino oil. The '32 Lincoln uses Castor oil. Still runs great no engine rebuild! If you really want to know what a good reliable oil is look into what aircraft are using. After all, in a piston powered aircraft, your engine is your life.

[fromanhb]

stv9000 is correct but late model engines are built to have VERY tight clearances compared to older engines, which is where the advantage of synthetic really shines. In fact some older engines will actually fail if synthetic is used. A 64 Studebaker is a good example of that, I would never run synthetic something that old.

[stv9000]

You right about that. In boat racing they would even calculate the expantion of the metal under diffrent temperatures to see what viscosity and weight was needed. I know my one of the tricks my father used to do was buy blank pistons and machine his own oil and compression ring slots. They would cc the head and check boar and stroke but never do compression checks. I have however seen pictures of him blowing the heads clear off the engine. Whoops a little to much compression.

[aries4life]

which brings me back to the manufacturer suggesting or requiring it. The Viper is built to run it our Magnums aren't. Ours are built to run off dino oil. Therefore, I run dino instead of synth. :D

[Husker]

stv9000 is correct but late model engines are built to have VERY tight clearances compared to older engines, which is where the advantage of synthetic really shines. In fact some older engines will actually fail if synthetic is used. A 64 Studebaker is a good example of that, I would never run synthetic something that old.


I would really like to know what older engines would fail using a syn type oil..I really have a tough time believing that

[Husker]

To add to what saltracer said, there are many classes of racing that made it illegal to run synthetics. wether it is auto racing or go-cart racing. On the other hand My father has his fathers 64 Studebaker with an Avanti v8 Racing engine (which burns cleaner than most cars today!) with 372,000+ miles on it, Using nothing but Dino oil. The '32 Lincoln uses Castor oil. Still runs great no engine rebuild! If you really want to know what a good reliable oil is look into what aircraft are using. After all, in a piston powered aircraft, your engine is your life.

I think in most aircraft pistonor turbine....the engine is your life :)
Turbines use syn..

[stv9000]

Well said Husker.

[tampahemi]

I'll chime in with that under everyday internal combustion circumstances dino and synth oils lubricate and protect the same. However, when the conditions get extreme the synth oil does a better job in not breaking down. For example: If you are driving through a deserted area of Southern Texas with 120 miles to the next town in mid August with the ambient air temp @ 120 F and your radiator suddenly goes dry you better have synth oil in the crank case. Odds are if you've got dino in the crank case you'll over heat and not make that 120 miles.

[fromanhb]

I would really like to know what older engines would fail using a syn type oil..I really have a tough time believing that

what i meant was older engines with a number of miles on them, as the detergents will wear seal material as well as wear away deposits that form in places that act as a seal. Plus if the deposits get stuck in an oil line, you could be toast. A brand new old engine (oxymoron of course) would do fine with syn.

[desquirrel]

I disagree, Syn oil has molecules of the exact same size so there for they have to flow better creating better lub...that is microbiology..now if you make the claim it doesn't, please show us your research so we can continue the debate! :)

You really don't know what you're talking about . Syn is made up of mixtures of very large molecules of different sizes, polyolefins, esters, etc. They do not "lube better".

In tests using frequent oil analysis to detect the presence of bearing material, SAE motor oil "lubes" just as well as synthetics.

[saltracer]

These oil discussions always drag on with the emotion, fantasy, myths, etc that we all have about oil. I took the time to search out some non advertisment articles on the power benefits of synthetics.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/66278/index6.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/15378/
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/6394/index.html
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/ford/smallblock/0306mm_windsor2/index.html
These are mostly dyno tests that compare dino oil to synthetic oil as to horsepower output. In every case the synthetic oil produces more horsepower so it must lubricate better by reducing friction. Like I said, I don't care what you use, I know what I will use. I have used synthetic for years.
Howard :gr_patrio

[Husker]

You really don't know what you're talking about . Syn is made up of mixtures of very large molecules of different sizes, polyolefins, esters, etc. They do not "lube better".

In tests using frequent oil analysis to detect the presence of bearing material, SAE motor oil "lubes" just as well as synthetics.

Well I get my info from an Mobil1 field test engineer, trust me he knows alot more about oils of all kinds then you do and you are wrong. Syn molecules are all exactly the same size, that is what lead people to think older cars couldn't run syn type oils. The syn oil would clean the oil gunk away from the older gaskets and the smaller uniform syn oil molecules would seep out where as the dino oil molecules are all different sizes and that is what causes the gunk to build up.. do so research and get back to me.....

[desquirrel]

Well I get my info from an Mobil1 field test engineer, trust me he knows alot more about oils of all kinds then you do and you are wrong. Syn molecules are all exactly the same size, that is what lead people to think older cars couldn't run syn type oils. The syn oil would clean the oil gunk away from the older gaskets and the smaller uniform syn oil molecules would seep out where as the dino oil molecules are all different sizes and that is what causes the gunk to build up.. do so research and get back to me.....

You still don't know what you're talking about. I don't care if you know Bozo the clown personally. Simply search on "components synthetic oil" and you will find the various compounds used to formulate syn. Since syn is a blend of many things (as is dino) the "same size" claim is ridiculous.

My degrees are in Chemistry and Physics and your other "theory" is wrong also. As oil breaks down very large molecules are radicalized and broken into smaller fragments. This is due mostly to heat. Since syn compounds are more resisitant to heat, they can maintain their properties for a much greater period of time, hence the extended drain claim. Dino oil adds detergents to maintain these fragments suspended in the oil as opposed to settling out as sludge. Detergents are very long molecules with a highly polar end. These polar ends attract the breakdown materials and create what are called "fringed micelles". If you want to see this in action, mix detergent with dirty water. The scum is the dirt particles broken apart and surrounded by detergent molecules.

[desquirrel]

These oil discussions always drag on with the emotion, fantasy, myths, etc that we all have about oil. I took the time to search out some non advertisment articles on the power benefits of synthetics.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/66278/index6.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/15378/
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/6394/index.html
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/ford/smallblock/0306mm_windsor2/index.html
These are mostly dyno tests that compare dino oil to synthetic oil as to horsepower output. In every case the synthetic oil produces more horsepower so it must lubricate better by reducing friction. Like I said, I don't care what you use, I know what I will use. I have used synthetic for years.
Howard :gr_patrio

There are no emotions, opinions, or fantasies on things that can be measured. The links above merely show thin synthetics have higher dyno numbers than thick dino oils. About as informative as wondering which dyno reading would be higher: with or without running the air conditioner. Even at that, 3-5 HP????

[Husker]

You still don't know what you're talking about. I don't care if you know Bozo the clown personally. Simply search on "components synthetic oil" and you will find the various compounds used to formulate syn. Since syn is a blend of many things (as is dino) the "same size" claim is ridiculous.

My degrees are in Chemistry and Physics and your other "theory" is wrong also. As oil breaks down very large molecules are radicalized and broken into smaller fragments. This is due mostly to heat. Since syn compounds are more resisitant to heat, they can maintain their properties for a much greater period of time, hence the extended drain claim. Dino oil adds detergents to maintain these fragments suspended in the oil as opposed to settling out as sludge. Detergents are very long molecules with a highly polar end. These polar ends attract the breakdown materials and create what are called "fringed micelles". If you want to see this in action, mix detergent with dirty water. The scum is the dirt particles broken apart and surrounded by detergent molecules.

k, so the guy who has been working for Mobil1(or whatever company Mobil has turned into due to buy outs etc.) for 17 years, has a degree in Chemistry and has SHOWED the specific information on this subject is wrong...huh...doubt it..but I really could careless if you believe me or not, I believe him due to the job he has and the respect he has earned. I for one use Mobil1 and will always use it in both my R/T and my wifes Suburban. If you want to use water I could really careless.....

Oh and he said to tell you this " Mobil1 is proprietary blend of high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an advanced additive system. " he said if you understand oil, this will explain things as Mobil1 does NOT use Dino oil for basestock like Castro or others..

Also "We all know synthetic molecules are uniform, but are they larger, smaller, roughly the same size so it doesn't matter and people are stupid for thinking it "slips" into places it shouldn't when compared to an average conventional oil of the same viscosity. "

and this

PAO is a synthetic hydrocarbon that is made by "building up" small, uniform ethylene gas molecules into larger, uniform molecules. This process is called "polymerization," and for "synthetic purests" it's the sine qua non of synthetic oils. Now Mobil1 uses a PAO base, if you were to use a Group III base(Which uses "Hydrocracking") then you would be correct in assuming the molecules would be differnet sizes because group III's are also called syn oils due the the Castro lawsuit, but again if the oil is using a PAO base, being fully syn the molecules are all the small size.

[Husker]

One last item, my friend told me to tell most folks who want to learn more about oil and maybe see yourself why syn(TRUE PAO basestock) oils are better..go to this website
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I went there and it's pretty cool....tons of info

[stv9000]

I use kendall simply because I can take a sample to a friend who races dirt modified, he sends it in to kendall they analyze it for free and tell you exactly what is going on in your engine. He uses it in his race cars and he gets these little vials from Kendall. Its kinda of like a piss test for your engine. Which by the way came in really handy when a local Honda dealer tried to tell me that my wifes odyssey had a blown head gasket. I brought it in to get some warranty work done and all of the sudden her head gasket was blown. They didn't even run any tests. I took it had the antifreeze tested, oil analyzed and a compression test done. Nothing.

[fromanhb]

You still don't know what you're talking about. I don't care if you know Bozo the clown personally. Simply search on "components synthetic oil" and you will find the various compounds used to formulate syn. Since syn is a blend of many things (as is dino) the "same size" claim is ridiculous.

My degrees are in Chemistry and Physics and your other "theory" is wrong also. As oil breaks down very large molecules are radicalized and broken into smaller fragments. This is due mostly to heat. Since syn compounds are more resisitant to heat, they can maintain their properties for a much greater period of time, hence the extended drain claim. Dino oil adds detergents to maintain these fragments suspended in the oil as opposed to settling out as sludge. Detergents are very long molecules with a highly polar end. These polar ends attract the breakdown materials and create what are called "fringed micelles". If you want to see this in action, mix detergent with dirty water. The scum is the dirt particles broken apart and surrounded by detergent molecules.

Well so far we have a lot of links that provde evidence pointing towards synthetic being better the dino oil and all your evidence is a claim to a degree? What degree is it that you have? Degree is a very broad term, there is a big difference in a PhD and an AA. To add to that you have not provided any factual links to support your argument.

There are certain things that I've experienced that tell me synthetic is different the dino oil. The main point being I worked for a Yamaha dealer for a while and found it amazing how wet clutches reacted to different oils. Pure synthetic oils in a wet clutch cause it to slip, while regular dino oil will cause it to slip also unless you've got a friction modifier. While the same additive in synthetic wouldn't have an effect. You need a special type of synthetic if you are to use it in a wet clutch.

I'm not trying to point out faults, I'm just interested in hearing from an expert in oils as to why synthetic is the same as dino.

[HankL]

As an 'independent' opinion,
you might want to read Cummins Engine Company's conclusions
on dino vs syn on pages 12 and 13 of this link:
http://www.cummins.com/na/pdf/en/products/truck/MPG_Secrets_Whitepape.pdf

Cummins concludes that syn is best economically for gearboxes and lower priced dino best in engines.

[Husker]

I use kendall simply because I can take a sample to a friend who races dirt modified, he sends it in to kendall they analyze it for free and tell you exactly what is going on in your engine. He uses it in his race cars and he gets these little vials from Kendall. Its kinda of like a piss test for your engine. Which by the way came in really handy when a local Honda dealer tried to tell me that my wifes odyssey had a blown head gasket. I brought it in to get some warranty work done and all of the sudden her head gasket was blown. They didn't even run any tests. I took it had the antifreeze tested, oil analyzed and a compression test done. Nothing.


My Mobil1 pal does the same for me. When I still had my jeep he could tell me exactly what conditions were inside the engine, that was really cool. Heck the first run told me that the factory had left too much silicon in the engine block what he told me was most likely from the casting process...but it is still cool!

[saltracer]

desquirrel,
No problem, you are just one more of the guys who will not be confused by facts. In the very first test with Hot Rod, the oils were the same viscosity when warm. Use margerine for all I care, but don't try to convince me you know what you are doing.
Howard :gr_patrio

[desquirrel]

Well so far we have a lot of links that provde evidence pointing towards synthetic being better the dino oil and all your evidence is a claim to a degree? What degree is it that you have? Degree is a very broad term, there is a big difference in a PhD and an AA. To add to that you have not provided any factual links to support your argument.

I'm not trying to point out faults, I'm just interested in hearing from an expert in oils as to why synthetic is the same as dino.

Nobody has provided "lots of links" that show syn "better" than dino. They posted lots and lots of syn advertizing and silly anecdotes about people that had cars with 100K miles on them.

I'll say this AGAIN for the slow people. I did NOT say dino and syn "were the same". I SAID using the mfg change interval, the only thing you gain from syn is a lighter wallet. As to "factual links", I have posted links referencing the extensive tests done by Consumer Reports with oil analysis and engine teardowns on fleets of taxis. I also posted an extensive test with oil analysis of a Ford SHO, clearly demonstating the benefits of syn are not realized for tens of thousands of miles.

So far, I notice there have been no links to high mileage tests with analysis and teardown demonstrating the massive benefit of syn.

[desquirrel]

desquirrel,
No problem, you are just one more of the guys who will not be confused by facts. In the very first test with Hot Rod, the oils were the same viscosity when warm. Use margerine for all I care, but don't try to convince me you know what you are doing.
Howard :gr_patrio

Facts. You seriously think you have presented a fact somewhere?

I'm sure you are comforted by the knowledge there's syn under the hood as your CAI throws you back in the seat and you're temporarily blinded by your Silverstars.

[Husker]

I still look at it this way, it's like a religion and everyone has their own way of believing and leave it at that...

But that being said there is one very large benefit the using Mobil1 over dino oil besides the "lighter wallet." Where I live in Nebraska it just down right COLD. Mobil1 does flow MUCH better at -10F then any brand of Dino. That alone would be worth the money to me. Hell, I don't flow very well at -10F :SHK:

[saltracer]

Desquirrel
I don't know why I am bothering with this but you should preface your comments with" in my opinion" since you have absolutly nothing to back up your comments. Continue with you ignorance smart ass
:gr_patrio

[Husker]

Or how about this.....
"That to ignore the facts does not change the facts"..:)

[Husker]

Consumer Reports tested FLEETS of taxi cabs in late '70s. Mobil 1 was the only readily available synthetic then. The result: No performance difference in ANY of the oils. If you search on Amsoil you will get 1000:1 advertizing hype to real test. Those guys must have bought up every internet key word possible and provide every one of their dealers with a web site.

In a REAL test of Amsoil I saw, it had absolutely crazy viscosity properties. As it got more mileage the ACTUAL viscosity was several times what it was rated. Not too good for MDS.


That is funny as I call Amsoil "Spamsoil" Now I am not picking a fight with any Amsoil folks, I just get tired of all the Marketing I see.

[mag300x]

:cool: What's the best oil :cool:

[MB7055]

So when all is said and done is it just personal preference or can we really go more miles with syn between changes and get better protection or should we just use the dino. However, I have to say when I had my Grand Prix I did notice a slight bump up in fuel mileage with the Amsoil(used on a recommendation), now this is not scientific or a double blind study or any of that, just a personal observation. I must admit I do change my oil on a very regulars basis depending on how I am driving no matter if it is syn or dino. I just don't buy into the hype of synthetic oils. Call me old fashioned if you must.

[fromanhb]

:cool: What's the best oil :cool:

*Drum rolls please*
...
.....
.......

Dawn dish soap I have concluded to be the best lubricant. And I am correct because of my PhD in dish soap.

[stv9000]

LOL :thatfunny

[stv9000]

www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/15378/
:pnice: If we keep bickering about it maybe we should consider switching to BABY OIL.

[flythesky]

saltracer and stv9000,

Great posts guys. While I appreciate everyones opinion, links to published material is just a little bit more persuasive. I feel a little guilty letting you two do all the work while I reap the benefits. But I can live with that.

[Husker]

saltracer and stv9000,

Great posts guys. While I appreciate everyones opinion, links to published material is just a little bit more persuasive. I feel a little guilty letting you two do all the work while I reap the benefits. But I can live with that.

If you want to really learn about oil from the oil geeks...

Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com this place will scare you it has so much info

[flythesky]

If you want to really learn about oil from the oil geeks...

Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com this place will scare you it has so much info

Another great link. Thanks Husker.

[desquirrel]

Desquirrel
I don't know why I am bothering with this but you should preface your comments with" in my opinion" since you have absolutly nothing to back up your comments. Continue with you ignorance smart ass
:gr_patrio

As I said before (but probably requires an IQ above 70 to understand), atomic absorption analysis of oil samples for metal content and checking engine parts with a micrometer at 250K teardowns is not an "opinion".

[desquirrel]

That is funny as I call Amsoil "Spamsoil" Now I am not picking a fight with any Amsoil folks, I just get tired of all the Marketing I see.

They must have bought every internet keyword possible relating to oil. Any search with anything to do with oil yields HUNDREDS of their dealers or links back to them.

It amazes me how people will use something based on hype (like Silverstars). One wonders what makes them think 5 guys in their garage figured out something that has eluded Mobil, Pennzoil, Castrol, et al. After reading the SHO test series on Amsoil, I definitely wouldn't put that stuff in an MDS Hemi.

[stv9000]

:argue:

[MB7055]

Well, I'm clearly not someone who will let facts get in the way of a good argument, so I guess I'll just use what Dodge recommends which is their regular ol' oil. :IDEA:

[Husker]

Well, I'm clearly not someone who will let facts get in the way of a good argument, so I guess I'll just use what Dodge recommends which is their regular ol' oil. :IDEA:

You know, that's the beauty of living in this great country!!!! You can you whatever you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :gr_patrio

I for one will still use Mobil1 and will continue to....but again choice is a very cool thing!

[saltracer]

As I said before (but probably requires an IQ above 70 to understand), atomic absorption analysis of oil samples for metal content and checking engine parts with a micrometer at 250K teardowns is not an "opinion".

You said synthetic was no better than dino oil and would only lighten your wallet but you have shown nothing in the way of proof to back that up. I think you are getting too hung up on that consumers report test. That is ancient history and the oils of today are quite different.
Let's don't forget the original question that started this diatribe. By the way, I would be cautious about discussing IQ with people you know nothing about.
You might well come out the looser.
I am not hung up on Amsoil but I have had good success with it. I would probably run Mobil 1 if I had a source for it. I live 50 miles one way from the nearest town with a supermarket or Wal-Mart and I can call Amsoil and the big brown truck rumbles across the cattle guard and blows his horn.
Amsoil is a good PAO based synthetic and I have been using it for six years including in my turbo diesel truck that pulls almost 23,000 lbs. down the road in the Arizona heat.
This has turned into a contest to see who is right and who is wrong and I could care less about that. Spend your money and make your choice. I was just trying to reference some factual articles that gave dyno results showing a measurable improvement in HP using synthetics.
I don't think the original question cared or asked about atomic absorption testing.
Howard :gr_patrio

[desquirrel]

So the Consumer Reports test is "old", the SHO extensive oil tests with analysis are meaningless and neither is "proof", but an Amsoil ad and "My Uncle Louie says Super Atomic Ultra Purple is da bomb" is holy scripture.

You're right, it's best not to talk IQs.

[saltracer]

If you had the ability to read you would have noticed I said I was not enthralled with Amsoil but it was convenient for me. I don't care about anyones advertising, I refer to technical articles like the ones I referenced to form my opinion.
You are a very smart mouthed individual and apparently not very smart. I am out of this topic because I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
If it makes your day, let's just say you won this one. I have nothing to prove to anyone, especially you. :gr_patrio

[aries4life]

For those that don't click links in posts:

"Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters."

"Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company."

I found this interesting enough. I used Mobil1 synthetics in my last vehicle for a while. If I were to use syn I would use Mobil1. But, dino oil works great. lol