I go to pick up the Magnum w/new 2-muffler Borla at the dealership and all the svc techs (6 of them) are hanging around my car...quote "you got the hemi ese? fire that thing up!"...
A few months ago I put on the 20hp K&N CAI...quite pleased with that.
First thing I noticed with K&N/Borla combo is gorgeous growl/rumble on ignition.
Second thing is pulling out of driveway I notice MUCH more throttle responsiveness...seems to mostly be at low-mid rpm...which is fine. I can already go too fast (hence recent radar detector purchase...phrack!).
Third thing is stares I get when accelerating...every car/person around (and I mean every) stares to see where that bad-ass sound is coming from...not obnoxious...just pure evil.
Magnum w/Borla is a no-drone zone. When cruising there is NO difference in sound.
I can't see how anybody would spend $50 less and get the 4-muffler version.
I just did a 3hr cruise tonight to my weekend getaway on the water, traveling thru freeway, highway, straightaways and serious mountain curves (up and downhill).
The extra power throughout most of the range was absolutely noticeable. Way more than when I had added 20hp+ K&N CAI. Borla says 7-10% hp increase.
While driving on the lower level of a 2-level bridge...every slight tap of the gas pedal results in a total roar causing everybody to look for the hotrod...especially while going thru tunnels.
While on windy country highway radar picked up several chp...I made sure to slow down before getting close to them and then stepped on accelerator to get 5+ above speed limit (accelerating 10-15mph quickly)...just to give them a taste of the hemi...
I'll do mileage tests and compare with just K&N that I posted earlier. First results didn't appear good...but then again I have two extra (female...heh heh) passengers and gear/bags covering 2nd rear seat and 100% of liftgate/trunk.
yes...the ladies are staying the weekend...(booyah #2)
done
08-13-2005, 07:30 PM
Booyah! The RT screams now...so pleased.
A few months ago I put on the 20hp K&N CAI...quite pleased with that.
First thing I noticed with K&N/Borla combo is gorgeous growl/rumble on ignition.
Well, you certainly have more noise and that is a good thing. However, your "20 HP K&N" is show not go.
Well...either K&N s/be sued for their GUARANTEED HP claims...or these guys screwed up somehow during testing. I would lean towards trusting K&N...but I don't know these guys.
K&N has dyno runs that show 20hp @5100rpm...and either they're lying thru their teeth...or we aren't comparing apples with apples.
I find it hard to believe that K&N put out a phony dyno chart though...they have too much to lose from doing this. Massive class-action w/be possible...screw the 30-day return/guarantee claim.
I know my engine roared after putting on new CAI and I got to higher rpm quicker than with stock...I must admit though that even with this...I DID NOT FEEL ANY EXTRA HP...but then again would a putz like me notice 20hp @ 5100rpm?
mklein
08-14-2005, 12:09 PM
TPR magazine did a headers test with 6 (or was it 8?) kinds of headers and produced dyno charts...they came to NO conclusion regarding performance improvements....WOOHOOO!!!
So we should NOT buy CAI or new headers for our cars...they can't be proven to make any measurable difference in performance or HP?? Kewl...
Borla was best MOD to date for sure...DEFINITE improvements in HP and throttle responsiveness. Verdict is out on mileage improvements though...
I've heard wierd stuff about K&N/Borla together producing bad mileage...I hope to put this to rest shortly.
hemiwagon
08-14-2005, 12:26 PM
I have to agree that I felt nothing with my volant, with the Borla pro's is when I felt a difference but not a huge difference. I guess I should be thankfull that I paid next to nothing for my intake. When we finally get a programmer this car will come alive, all of these mods will finally pay off and so will extras like headers and such. Now if either Superchip or Hypertech will get off their dead asses and make something other that programmers for Ford products we will be smokin! I am bummed that these intakes made no change but I guess it goes to show how well our cars were engineered.
mklein
08-14-2005, 02:48 PM
I really think that if Dodge had their crap together they would've created a car chip would take into account increased airflow/exhaust and give you option for what 'mode' you want to drive in...40yr old male...or grandma/economy. S/have been simple...
We shouldn't even need a new chip. I wonder if car computer does ANYTHING differently with improved CAI and exhaust...
done
08-15-2005, 11:55 AM
thanks for the link...it is informative.
Well...either K&N s/be sued for their GUARANTEED HP claims...or these guys screwed up somehow during testing. I would lean towards trusting K&N...but I don't know these guys.
K&N has dyno runs that show 20hp @5100rpm...and either they're lying thru their teeth...or we aren't comparing apples with apples.
I find it hard to believe that K&N put out a phony dyno chart though...they have too much to lose from doing this. Massive class-action w/be possible...screw the 30-day return/guarantee claim.
I know my engine roared after putting on new CAI and I got to higher rpm quicker than with stock...I must admit though that even with this...I DID NOT FEEL ANY EXTRA HP...but then again would a putz like me notice 20hp @ 5100rpm?
The first link above was for the second set of tests. here is the results for the first set of tests in June:
Same results. I would guess K&N is making assumptions based on trucks or history. They were invited to comment on the tests and have declined.
billapex
08-15-2005, 05:24 PM
There's no need to sue K&N when they have a hp guarantee. If your car doesn't make the claimed increase, they give you your money back. K&N Horsepower Guarantee (http://knfilters.com/HPGuarantee.htm)
In my experience, it's easy to make +/- 20 hp in back to back tests. It really depends on heat soak, outside temperature, correction factor, etc. When I've dyno'd Vipers, I could dyno a car, then dyno it after it's been idling for five minutes, and it would be down 15hp. Easy as that. Turn it off, put some fans on the motor for an hour to cool everything down, do another dyno run, and be up 8hp from the first run. Cars react differently to various mods or testing conditions.
On the exhaust front, I really only did it for my aural pleasure. Even if it added 20hp, which I'm sure it didn't, would I be able to feel that in a 4,200lb. tuna boat? Mmmmm.....no. But damn, it sounds good!
mklein
08-15-2005, 09:21 PM
Have you bothered to read their hp guarantee?
You must dyno before/after...this alone is > $300...more than the cost of the air filter...methinks I won't be doing this anytime soon.
You must also do within 60 days of purchase.
I trust K&N but I also trust that guys on lxforum did their homework fairly well...I want to find out what's different...not sue.
But if there is an issue with hp claims...each and every K&N owner shouldn't have to do separate dyno runs...not feasible/scalable.
done
08-16-2005, 11:42 AM
Clearly what is different is the assumption that a car manufacturer does not know anything about designing an intake. K&N and everyone else is living in the past.
MattRobertson
08-16-2005, 04:20 PM
I was present at both of the Intake Face-Offs, and my car was dyno'd as a part of the published test results at the second one.
The dyno numbers just don't lie, and there are so many controls in place and test variations run -- especially after a month or two of public comment about what could have caused the first set of numbers -- that there just isn't any wiggle room left anymore. These units do nothing for horsepower.
My own car has a Typhoon on it and it showed gains comparable only to the exhaust (as compared to two other Magnums dyno'd the same day with the same exhaust, but all of us having different intakes and one having a stock box). Nothing from the intake.
K&N was respectfully invited to show us all how we had screwed up and they instead attempted a disgraceful whitewash (read the first test's thread -- the question and their full answer is posted).
I was once a strong proponent of their products but after they pulled that I feel they have something to hide and they know it. Read their response and take it in context ... this wasn't "Billy Ray and Bubba Go to the Big City Dyno"
LilTank
08-31-2005, 10:28 AM
Matt,
Which Borla system do you have? Sounds like the xxx125.
How bad is the drone at highway speeds?
TIA,
LilTank
mklein
08-31-2005, 11:24 AM
I have 2-muffler borla for my RT and there is ZERO drone when cruising.
You only hear the exhaust when accelerating.
If you're going up a windy hill....you will obviously hear it more frequently.
Wagonmaster
09-01-2005, 03:53 PM
There seems to be some confusion, or at least I'm confused. By two muffler, do you mean only two mufflers on the whole system or two mufflers on each side? I would like to know the part number for the kit, since I HATE drone and my wife hates it worse than I do and it's her car!
mklein
09-01-2005, 04:51 PM
I'm counting 'total' mufflers. There's one on each side.
Part# is 140125.
xxumattuxx
09-01-2005, 04:56 PM
if anyone got 20hp from an air intake id shit myself
if anyone got 2hp id probably do the same
mklein
09-01-2005, 05:02 PM
we've all seen this link...post was written before I read it.
MattRobertson
09-01-2005, 06:21 PM
I'm counting 'total' mufflers. There's one on each side. Part# is 140125.Yowza. Thats the LOUD Borla system... the one with the 5" tips and no resonators.
David Borla himself said that one droned in a thread on this very board. The 140125 is for the enthusiast who wants it loud, no compromise.
mklein
09-01-2005, 06:50 PM
What do you mean by drone? At cruising speeds? absolutely not...car is silent when cruising.
Can you <possibly> point me to post where he said this?
There is ZERO annoying noise when accelerating...just the beautiful sound of your engine coming out tailpipes...
When I've heard people referring to drone...seemed mostly with Magnaflows and FlowMasters...plus...the drone seemed to be all the time.
DavidB himself said neither system was obnoxious (both would pass wife test) and I agree.
MattRobertson
09-01-2005, 08:04 PM
Drone on that system is typically reported in the 1800-2200 rpm range, when under mild acceleration, typically. You'll hear drone in the city a lot more than on the highway, especially since on the highway thats ... what? 60 mph or so? Not a speed most of us stay at for long.
Drone is also entirely subjective. What is acceptable to one person can be insane to another. But if you have a system with no resonators... you have it. If you don't you're pretty much the only one in the history of the world as Magnum's go. It not like this hasn't been widely discussed.
As to the link, search for all posts by user "DavidBorla" (IIRC). He was answering a question I posed to him, I believe. I think the thread was entitled "A question For David Borla" but maybe it was another one. There was one where folks were asking him if he could produce the 140125 with the smaller tips, as many found the mongo 5" tips to be a bit over the top. It might have been that thread.
The Highhorseperformance.com web site starts off about right when it describes this product when it begins "Do You Want Loud?".
The 140125 is the extreme set. The 140112 is the tamer version that is also the Mopar exhaust for the Magnum available thru Dodge dealers. Even has "Borla" on the tips.
MattRobertson
09-01-2005, 08:20 PM
Its worth pointing out that the cabin resonance that is commonly called 'drone' is not a deal-killer for some people. Particularly the performance-sound-minded. When I mentioned that the system had been acknowledged as having drone. In that same thread this was put forward as a no-compromise performance sound. Not an "oops-we-f****d-up sound". It was a "you-want-it-here-it-is!" thing. If you read around enough you will see time and again, experiment after experiment, that shows you cannot get monster sound without drone. From Flowmasters with no reso's to aeroturbines with reso tips to Zoomers with Venturi tips we are all giving up *something* to kill drone, and we are ALL putting something on behind the mufflers to do it. No exceptions. The 140125 is for those who won't compromise on killer exhaust sound, and will take the good with the bad.
I had *killer* sound out of my second exhaust system. Turned heads. Moms grabbed kids off the street etc. I got used to the drone but my passengers didn't. I took the good with the bad. But I got tired of it and had to change.
mklein mentioned drone associated with Magnaflows was that a) they do drone and b) it was a whole different tone. A bass trombone note versus a bass tuba on the Magnum. Not Magnaflows fault, though. I never should have used that particular muffler without a resonator tip.
mklein
09-01-2005, 08:51 PM
Sure it's subjective...
I just know that the sound isn't annoying...whether accelerating or not.
If I am maintaining a constant speed...there is ZERO extra sound w/Borla 2-muffler....it's just like stock.
I know drone...a buddy of mine has a camaro and mustang with flowmasters? (may be magnaflows...sorry) and the exhaust note is absolutely annoying...accelerating or not. I wanted to get out of his car it was so bad.
I've heard drone described as absolutely hideous get-into-your-brain type of sound...the 2-muffler borla doesn't have this affect...
