letting the truck run while refueling?

[cigar-pirate]

This truck is my first Diesel, I have noticed alot of other diesel truck owners let the truck running while filling up at the pump. Is this a standard practice, is there any benifit or safety hazards? Thanks

[Dracos]

All I have to ask is what dose the sign say at the pump? something along the line of turn off motor while refueling.

Diesel may not flash fire like gas..............but any spark could set off a fire if the guy next to you is filling up with gas, be safe....turn it off

[Dodgezilla]

I usually don't turn mine off when I'm fueling. I don't care what the sign says! It only pertains to those unfortunate people driving gas powered vehicles!!! :evillaugh

[Saint]

You show me a Diesel Fuel that will Ignite with one little spark and I'll show you Ocean Front Property in Las Vegas. While Fuel will ignite if there is a sustained flame, or heat it must be 1.) Either sustained i.e. holding a torch to it, or 2.) Extreme heat, i.e. taking a direct hit from a mortar. While we do not allow smoking within 50 feet of any tank that is filled with fuel, it is just common practice and nowhere near as important around JP or Diesel as it is around Mogas. You can actually hold an open flame to Diesel and you will see a flame, but when you remove the flame, it will extinguish, unless you've held the flame there long enough for the fuel to ignite. I work with a Bulk Fuel Unit, I could tell you more about fuel then you ever wanted to know.

[rlk340dust]

I could tell you more about fuel then you ever wanted to know.

Then tell me why diesel is the most expensive fuel out there right now :huh:
I do mobile service on trucks & trailers & drive a 04 stupid duty with the 6.0 & the price of diesel is killing me when it costs me around $100 a fill up & I have to fill up 2 or 3 times a week :VHOT: . It costs the oil companies nothing to make diesel since it's a byproduct from making regular gas, it's the left over $hit. I guess since personal trucks with diesel's are selling real good the oil barons decided to screw with the price of diesel & jack it up, I've seen diesel as high as $2.98 a gallon in Santa Fe Springs,Ca. Sorry about hijacking the thread :hijacked: If diesel was as flammable as gas, my old service truck would have burnt to the ground. The 7.3 powerjokes have a big plug on the ends of the heads for the high pressure fuel system & one of mine snapped off & the whole underside of the truck was saturated with about 15 gallons of diesel including the whole exhaust system.

[Saint]

I couldn't tell you about the price I have never paid for JP or Diesel, and that includes th 4 million+ gallons that I assisted in issuing during my six month tour in Iraq.

[RAJ]

we've done this with my buddys truck becase we ran the tank down to almost no diesel, so we kept it started so we wouldn't get air into the system and have problems, and my dad always keeps his semi started when hes filling up.

[Son of Mr. Ed]

Diesel (low sulphur Diesel Fuel #2) can have a flash point as low as 105 degrees F.

Flash point is the lowest temperature at which a liquid can form an ignitable mixture in air near the surface of the liquid. The lower the flash point, the easier it is to ignite the material.

[sandtazam]

cHECK OUT www.freedomfuelamerica.com you can buy a kit to make your own bio-fuel for around .70 cents a gallon. You make it from vegitable oil left over from resturants.

[Josh Brown]

How many stations have diesel only? If the guy next to you is filling up with gas yourl could ignite it, it's rare but it happens, static can do it as well.

[Buddy P]

cHECK OUT www.freedomfuelamerica.com you can buy a kit to make your own bio-fuel for around .70 cents a gallon. You make it from vegitable oil left over from resturants.

i saw stacey do that on TRUCKS...its pretty cool, but the whole machine costed around $3000 i think, or more

[sandtazam]

My friend makes it and it works great and the snap-on trucks here in town are going in on a machine. The Idea would be to go in on the setup with a few people.

[Dracos]

I love this part

"Biodiesel can be made from domestically produced, renewable oilseed crops such as hemp."

and "When burned in a diesel engine, biodiesel replaces the exhaust odor of petroleum diesel with the pleasant smell of hemp, popcorn or french fries."

Wonder if you get pulled over for the hemp smell.................or even better go get oil from Dunkin Donuts and have a trail of Police follow you cause it smells like Donuts......

[six pak]

safety issues aside, you go inside to pay,come out and the truck you left running is GONE!!!!

[Josh Brown]

safety issues aside, you go inside to pay,come out and the truck you left running is GONE!!!!
maybe back in 1980. I bet 90% of us pay at the pump.

[2005cumins4x4]

The reason Diesel is more $$$$ is that it is not produced at a high quantity as mogas is, and it also has a higher tax on it than mogas, and the biggest reason is its also incorperated in home heating oil, the home heating oil season began early. With that roled all into one = higher Diesel. Just wait though there are alot of new Diesel fuel coming on the market such as Bio diesel and synthetic diesel extracted from coal, which should bring diesel back down to the cheapest again.

[sandtazam]

THE SOONER THE BETTER. I run bio-fuel and it works fine. About 20%

[Saint]

Diesel (low sulphur Diesel Fuel #2) can have a flash point as low as 105 degrees F.


I'll believe that when a Fuel Farm either here on Pendleton, or on Twenty Nine Palms spontaneously ignites

[Son of Mr. Ed]

I'll believe that when a Fuel Farm either here on Pendleton, or on Twenty Nine Palms spontaneously ignites

Look in an MSDS, and flash point is not the Autoignition Temperature. That temp is near 500 degrees F.

[cigar-pirate]

Thanks for the info...while it is true the flash point is just that, the point to where a product will flash but not sustain combustion. Plus, if you don't know it a lit cig will not ignite normal fuel (if you don't belive me try to light a small puddle of gas on the ground with just a cig, it ain't gonna happen). Now a lighter is a different subject (which is the reason why you can't smoke at gas stations). I don't think you could start a diesel fire without a blow tourch or without another fuel soure added in, but the biggest hazzard might be static electricity, becuase as the fuel flows it create static electricity, which is what causes most tanker fires (either mobile or fixed). Does anybody know how the static electricity would effect diesel or mogas any differently?

good discussion on bio-diesel, I would be careful before buying a kit, before you have the oil sources lined up...in denton, TX they just built the first bio-diesel plant and are getting the oils from grease joints all across the metroplex. Just a consideration, I am all for bio dielsel, and so are all the tree huggers, so as the industry takes off, big chain grease joints will start to contract out there used greased for a profit instead of giving it away...this is American

If the petro company's start to jump on this, it is my guess you will be paying for used grease in the future and not getting it for free

[Hemi Army]

Yeah I hauled 5,000 gallon diesel tankers all over Iraq in 130+ degree temps and no spontaneous combustion. I also had to burn our crap barrels on numerous ocassions and the only reason the diesel ignites is because of all the toilet paper that eventually catches it on fire.

I am not saying you shouldn't follow the rules, but the point somebody was trying to make about the other people filling up with gas doesn't make sense. What if you do shut your engine off? Then you have to start it to drive away right. What about all the other people driving by the guy that is filling up with gas?

[cigar-pirate]

Good Points....thanks for serving...my deepest appreciation goes out to you and your family.

I do have a question about static, when you refuel/defuel a tanker with diesel do you use a ground line? I know the pump size is way larger so it would create more stactic by flowing more volume. I have heard stories of fires started by static in metal cans and thats why most gas cans are now plastic and they warn you to only refuel them on the ground. Why do cars and trucks not require a gound? is it becuase the flow of pumps is so low (it creates less friction and less stactic) or is it becuase becuase they self ground? I don't really know anybody?

Cell phones are becoming another way to start fires, it must be from the static becuase they are not an ignition source. Just curious and trying to get back to original question.

I think we have determended that diesel engines running really do not pose a hazard from an ignition source but how much static electricity would it take to ignite the diesel fumes (which is really what burns in a fire)? Could a cell phone ignite diesel fumes? Anybody know the temperature a static discharge reaches, is it enought to autoignite diesel fumes or would it just flash might be good show for trucks?

Anybody been struck by lighting while refueling?

[cigar-pirate]

Ok I have been looking this up becuase it has been bugging me...most of the web stuff says there is a greater risk for static charge in cold climates with low humidity. I found out cell phones are the least of the dangers, static charges our most likey to can occurr from opening doors, seats, etc.

Plus, I found out that been proven on Discovery channel by The Myth Busters, it is not possible to ignite fuel with a cellular phone.

Why then shut the vehicle off in warm climate, probbly does more wear and tear on the engine shutting off and on. So I guess, I am gonna keep mine running unless is is convient to turn it off

[Saint]

When we received fuel in Iraq, the Army tankers had ground lines, and the civilains we worked with used them, the Marines usually didn't. The civilain trucks we would receive did not have ground lines. The pumps had Ground lines as best they could, but after a year in Iraq, and two seperate rotations of troops, they get pretty beat up. Our Issuing points did not have ground lines, and none of the vehicles do, on the Fuel Farm we only used 600 GPM pumps, to receive fuel and to issue it to Ground Vehicles, I know nothing about the Air Side other then the only time that it is required they go to the Cold Pits, engine shut off, is when they are rearming at the same time, other then that they always refueled at the Hot Pits, engine still running, Rotors still turning. The main reason we ground pumps though is due to lightining strikes, I'm not a Bulk Fueler by trade, just happen to be with a Bulk Fuel Unit, but I was never briefed on Static Electricity, I know it's a big deal with Birds, but it didn't seem to be a big deal for the Ground Vehicles.

And I will tell you again, Diesel must either be at it's Auto-Ignite temperature or above, or it will not sustain ignition, it may flash, but it will not stay lit.

[sandtazam]

If they can line there pockets they will but it's a much better fuel, it burns about 90% cleaner than diesel and its lubrisity is better than diesel as well. Hopefully it becomes readly available and is cheaper than Diesel too. Right now here in Tucson D is about 2.47 a gallon.

[t-7 firefighter]

i never turn mine off at the pump. don't worry about diesel fuel igniting. won't happen like gas.

Britt

:)

[dodgefan360]

Gas vehicles must turn off their ignition while refueling due to the fact that the engines run off of spark ignition, which can create a bad ground. When you fuel, the static discharge goes through the pump nozzle (and perhaps yourself). Diesel engines have nothing to ground. The alternator is the only worry, most new models are sealed well enough that you have 1 in a few million chances that it will have a bad ground. Diesel vehicles may refuel with the ignition on providing they are no less than 10 feet from an operating petrol pump. If the petrol pump is attached with the diesel, the diesel may remain running providing the petrol pump is not being used. It depends on local laws if diesels can remain to run while being fuelled.

[mikegronholz]

I'll believe that when a Fuel Farm either here on Pendleton, or on Twenty Nine Palms spontaneously ignites

Ok, in October-ish of 1999, it happened out on the airfield we were building. Tanks were being filled and during one of the fills, something got the diesel hot enough to burn ... and it did. Burned pretty hot too. Didn't cause much damage ... other than the LCpl.'s (Bulk Fuel specialist) ass when the Gunny got hold of him. After action report did not indicate an ignition source was present. so something got it burning, never found out what.

Grow complacent Marine ... that's when accidents happen !!! Procedures are there for a reason !!!

[Bubba_Hemi]

I'll admit... I never turned off my truck when fueling... diesel or gasser. As said, it's been proven that cell phones won't cause the fuel to ignite... what lead to that belief was actually cause by people getting in and out of their car while fueling to talk on the phone or just get out of the weather conditions, that's what will cause a spark just as I'm sure many of you have witnessed first hand when sliding out of your truck and you go to close the door.

Oh, and the price of diesel is high because of several reasons... a couple being supply and demand as well as the other uses it provides during the winter months which it always rises during that time.

[diveman]

Well i hate to say it but here it goes, the fuel cost for diesel i directly linked to all those big city wussy driving 4 door 1-ton dually from work to home to the store and back not ever towing anythink there intire life over kill if you ask me

[runnincummins]

Another reason to leave ur engine running is that shutting down a hot engine can hurt the turbo...think about it...how many of us fire up our cold truck, then go fill it up? most ppl fill up right after running highway speeds or after at least having the truck running for awhile. I leave my gas cars running too. With most fuel injected vehicles it takes more fuel to turn it on rather just to keep it running. Fires at the pumps happen, but the odds have got to better than getting struck by lightning, getting in a commercial jet-crash, or most importantly...hitting the powerball! And good luck getting diesel to flash ignite, thats why diesel engines have WAY higher compression ratios than gas engines and use GLOW PLUGS instead of spark plugs.

[Ram3500Dually]

over kill if you ask me

Who asked you? :D

[Dodgezilla]

Ya!! We're trying to help the planet by driving something that gets better mileage! Plus, when I got mine diesel cost about the same or less than regular gas!!

[Ram3500Dually]

Diesel in Ontario is usually less than gas by about 4 cents a litre

[HobbyHauler]

I don't remember ever seeing a shut off engine sign at a truck stop...

While towing, I keep the engine running during fueling. I pull out of the pump area, lock the door, and go inside to drain the lizzard and pick up the fuel slip. Back to the truck and using the valet key, open the door and drive away.

Even with my cool down timer, it does not make sense to shut down and start up the truck for a 10 minute stop. I usually start up the truck in the morning, let it warm up while making all the pre-op checks, and then never shut it down for the next 10 hours until I'm through for the day.

Protect your turbo. I use the 300°F rule for EGT before shutting down. The harder the run, the longer it takes to cool down.

[gsbrockman]

Well i hate to say it but here it goes, the fuel cost for diesel i directly linked to all those big city wussy driving 4 door 1-ton dually from work to home to the store and back not ever towing anythink there intire life over kill if you ask me

You drive yours and I'll drive mine.

The same freedom that allows you to post total nonsense is the the same freedom that allows me to choose what I wanna drive.

Thanks to all on this site that serves the most free and popular and powerful country on this planet. :cool: :gr_patrio
Greg

[runnincummins]

Who said diesels HAD to be for towing? It might of been what was in mind when they were designed, but it still doesn't mean that you HAVE to tow something if you have one. Owning a diesel is a triple, actually quadruple (and i'm sure u guys can think of more) advantage: more power, longer life, better milage, better resale (haha...cooler exhaust noise! but i won't count it....). But he is kinda right, I'm sure diesel fuel prices are higher partly due to the higher amount of ppl who are buying them now. Here in WY, diesel is about as much as premium gas at 90% of the stations, and the odds are that if you see a newer truck bigger than a half-ton, 6:1 its diesel rather than gas... Overkill? Would you tell someone that had a supercharged 454 in their vette that? Maybe u should drive a hybrid...

[Saint]

Glow Plugs are not used for combustion, they are used to heat the combustion chamber prior to starting the engine, primarily for cold weather because Diesel does not like to ignite in cold weather. I've only dealt with one engine the uses Glow Plugs and I fix diesels for a living.

[runnincummins]

No I didn't mean they use glow plugs for combustion, I see now that i worded that wrong. I said that to emphasize that diesel can't ignite by a simple spark, and that the combustion risk isn't really there like it is for gasoline. I know how a diesel engine works too, I'm going to WyoTech for it and I'll be doing the same thing as you.

[strandaw]

don't mean to make my first post here a fiesty one, but flashpoint of diesel is usually around 140 deg. F. Maybe if you're got some kind of ethanol blend, you shouldn't see anything below 125 deg. F. Still, why take the chance. Turn off the truck, fuel, and start up again.
If nothing else, you're not fueling alone, and there are lots of gomers in the world who could still blow you up.

[Son of Mr. Ed]

don't mean to make my first post here a fiesty one,.

How about i scold you for digging up this thread :D

[me1magoo]

Yeah, it was quite long gone, how much reading did it take to get to this mess?

[bpunk360]

Well i hate to say it but here it goes, the fuel cost for diesel i directly linked to all those big city wussy driving 4 door 1-ton dually from work to home to the store and back not ever towing anythink there intire life over kill if you ask me

so i guess it has nothing to due with the fact that the demad for diesel always stays the same if not gets greater.... think about it this way diesels need diesel the gas companies have you by the ballz.... when gas prices get too high people stop driving and it helps lower supply and demand thus lowering prices.. but with diesel there is always deman b/c the shipping industry used all diesel.... all the ships, semi's, farming equiptment, and every vehicle the shipping industry uses diesel.... if prices get high the industry cant just say "ok we arnt going to ship today diesel prices are too high" No they have to use it so diesel stays high.....

o yea and dont forget about the mercedes diesel cars that are still in action...but everyone is intitled to there own opinion even if it is way off base.... or completely wrong

[Ram3500Dually]

Let see, I use 420 litres (111 gallons) of fuel a day in my big truck and I use roughly 120 litres (31 gallons) a week in my dually so I guess I am directly linked to the price of diesel fuel. Diveman, you are way off based dude.