RWD vs AWD [Archive] - Dodge Talk Community Forum

hatt53

12-30-2004, 08:14 PM

Personally, I think AWD is a waste of money in huge majority of cases. You're adding 250 lbs of unsprung weight which equates to a reduction of performance in handling, acceleration and fuel economy. Not to mention the 2000 dollars it adds to the sticker price.

And for the few times that one could REALLY use it ... even in Canada, (You noted that you never needed AWD before), I just don't think it's worth it.

This car is already WELL balanced 52 front/48 rear with independent suspension and big ass tires that already gives it a traction advantage.

From the posts I've read on this board, there are a few people with RWD that were pleasantly surprised it how well it handled in bad weather.

I bet if there was a poll of the AWD owners, you'd find they perhaps were SUV owners before as opposed to driving enthusiasts.

Bottom line for me anyway is that unless the AWD is REALLY needed on a regular basis, the trade off is not worth it.

w5blt

12-31-2004, 12:04 AM

I went with RWD for two reasons. First, I'm in CA and we don't get a lot of bad weather. Second, the wait time was way too long (more that 1 day was too long for me). There have been several reports here on this forum that the RWD does in fact handle very well on wet or snowy surfaces anyway.

The only reason that I could think of to have it where I live is when I go to Tahoe to ski. Sometimes, if you have AWD, you can avoid putting on the chains. Then again, I'm not sure I'd have the guys to put on a set of chains just yet.

chilly

12-31-2004, 08:26 AM

i think you would be pretty happy with the way the RWD performs in "a reasonable" amount of snow. the cars well balanced and heavy enough that it tracks well in the stuff. and if you take it easy on the loud pedal, not an easy thing to do, you won't even light up the ESP. worst case, i'd put on 4 snow tires once the all seasons have a little wear on them.

i thought about going the AWD route for the same reason. i owned a "wagon" in the past with it (2000 v70r awd). it definitely has it's plus's but ground clearance, which i would think would be the same with the magnum, is a bit of an issue. likely get hung up long before you run out of traction.

magnum, AWD or RWD, staying in the garage today, got a ton of snow last night. big old 4X4's the only things moving around in these parts until the plow shows up!

SaskSebring

12-31-2004, 10:53 AM

got a ton of snow last night. big old 4X4's the only things moving around in these parts until the plow shows up!

Sounds like the blizzard that went through Regina, SK yesterday hit you too. Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely leaning towards the RWD.
Dave.
Saskatoon,SK
Canada

RT_AWD

01-02-2005, 03:38 PM

First of all I don't understand how anyone with a RWD Magnum can form a negative opinion about the AWD Magnums. Second, I for one never owned an SUV. My last vehichle was a 2WD GMC Sonoma with the ZQ8 suspension package. Even with the locking rear it wasn't worth much when the roads were anything but dry.
My AWD is a Godsend for me. I drive 75 miles a day back and forth to work everyday. I love the fact that this is a big heavy car. I no longer have to deal with semi's or strong crosswinds. My GMC was getting blown all over the road. My Magnum is fantastic on wet roads. Even from a dead stop I can punch it making a right or left turn and it just shits and gets. No 360's or tail end shifting from side to side. Best of all I no longer have to worry about bad weather and worry about my drive home.
I've driven both and in MY opinion there is very little difference in how the car drives and the feedback through the streering wheel. I really expected the AWD to have that pulling sensation during slow turns in a parking lot: and it didn't.
Third, I would expect that like 4WD and 2WD trucks, the AWD Magums would retain thier value better. The $2000 price seemed like a bargin to me. When you look at trucks, 4WD option is at least $3000. I love the fact that I own a Magnum that most people don't even know exists. The look on thier faces is priceless when they ask if you've smoked the rear tires off yet and I tell them it's AWD.
I personally like the stance better on the RWD models and I wouldn't knock anyone who chooses the RWD model over the AWD. But different strokes for different folks. Not everything in the world is black and white. ;)

BiIIy_B0b

01-02-2005, 03:40 PM

awd or 4x4 all the way

i'll never buy another 2wd vehicle for daily driving ever again

maybe a hotrodder for the weekend or summers only....but 4x4 always :D :D

mb190sl

01-02-2005, 07:59 PM

I drove my AWD in the big snow storm in Ohio just before Christmas. I was headed out east and only had the car three days. This is my first four wheel drive anything. I was quite impressed with the handling. We were the only car able to leave the parking lot Thursday morning. There were a couple 4 wheel drive SUV's that got out. Later that night, we got into just wet pavement. The car never had a feeling of getting away. I have only driven the RWD cars for a short distance and on dry pavement. They may do fine in the snow too, but I am sold on the AWD.

BiIIy_B0b

01-02-2005, 08:03 PM

Josh Brown

01-02-2005, 08:07 PM

The magnum I drove had the tracion control andit worked, why the need for awd if you don't do a lot iof snow driving. Less to go wrong with rwd.

BiIIy_B0b

01-02-2005, 08:08 PM

The magnum I drove had the tracion control andit worked, why the need for awd if you don't do a lot iof snow driving. Less to go wrong with rwd.

thats true....but here in the rocky mnts, it's pretty much a MUST

grinner

01-02-2005, 08:10 PM

whats the difference between awd and 4wd?
positrack?

BiIIy_B0b

01-02-2005, 08:11 PM

whats the difference between awd and 4wd?
positrack?

4wd is selectable.....u stay in 2HI normal driving.....goto 4HI or 4LO whenever i choose

awd is all 4 wheels turning all the time.....usually awd vehicles also offer a 4LO selectable transfer case as well

hatt53

01-03-2005, 01:18 AM

But different strokes for different folks. Not everything in the world is black and white. ;)

Absolutely. Although, I haven't quite found in your post anything that the RWD, in the Magnum at least, doesn't also do more than adequately. Hence the feeling of wasted money for me.

AWD, been there done that. Can be nice, but not even CLOSE to being worth it ... again, just IMO. Like Josh Brown said, "Less to go wrong". Which is another issue that wasn't brought up ... the cost of repairs with AWD issues. ANOTHER "hidden cost" that makes the vehicle more expensive.

Also, I think the resale of the AWD can depend on WHEN it is being sold and WHO is buying it. If AWD is "in fashion" at the time, typically one can get their money back. If not, it all depends on if you find someone that REALLY wants AWD. But, certainly people have been known to loose money.

Gee, I wonder how people survived before AWD?

:thatfunny

done

01-03-2005, 05:20 PM

I have an RT/AWD so I thought I would jump in and tell you why I wanted the AWD.

Most important point is that if I NEVER see another snowflake in my lifetime, I will be happy. (Four years is Minnesota convinced me)

I have finally reached a point where I can buy just about any car just because I want it without having to compromise for dollars or family requirements. Even though I was never fortunate enough to own a really exciting car before, I have generally kept up with what has been going on with cars over the last 40 years or so. I have also owned some 30+ different cars and did spend about 5 years in the car business. So I claim some knowledge of cars.

First, when I saw the original TV spots for the Magnum, I was just blown away. I really liked the design, the size and the Hemi. I was sure that this was what I was looking for. After researching here and other places on the web and then driving the RT I was convinced and then, much my delight, the RT is also available in AWD.

So here is my take on AWD. I always thought that AWD made sense in a car design starting back in the 60’s when I watched the Granitelli turbine cars at the Indy 500. They had AWD so that they could get more power to the ground in the days before “ground effects”. Also, Al Unser drove an AWD car in the 1968 500. The next year AWD was banned in Championship cars and has never been allowed since in CART and IRL. AWD cars were also raced in Formulae One in the seventies and eighties and later banned there also.

To me, a car should be optimized for maximum efficiency in its mechanical design, performance envelope and usability. I see very little in the design of the Magnum RT/AWD that is just “stuck on” without a specific utilitarian purpose. It seems to me that the AWD and ESP systems will efficiently transfer the power of the Hemi to the ground in. In addition, the asymmetrical split between front and rear wheels seems a logical way to offset/gain the disadvantages/advantages of front drive versus rear drive.

I have also noticed that other manufacturers of such cars as the WRX, Saab 921, Audi Quattro, MB S Class, etc, do not show their AWD cars in snow, they show them storming dry twisty roads. Indeed, the pseudo SUV’s like the Infiniti FX are shown in the same situations. So, it seems to me that handling and performance is the justification for AWD, not the occasional snow day.

As to some other specific opinions, burning rubber doesn’t thrill me nearly as much as massive acceleration. I would expect the higher axle ratio would offset the extra weight.. The overall height of the AWD’s is one inch higher than the non-AWD versions. The ground clearance is 1 inch better. The AWD is 211 pounds heavier than the RT, however, that is not all added unsprung weight. The transfer case, drive shaft and front differential are all mounted to frame/body/engine. The balance is 55/45, still not bad.

I would never buy an SUV, but my wife’s car is a Town & Country Limited/AWD.

RT_AWD

01-03-2005, 07:58 PM

Gee, I wonder how people survived before AWD?

You're correct, I'm not going to knock the RWD Magnums. But for me,AWD is what I wanted. When I was 19 or 20 it was cool to slide all over the place in the winter time. No cares no worries.... But now I'm in my 40's with a wife 2 kids and a house payment. I need piece of mind. I had a very bad accident a few years ago in the winter and I've been gun shy ever since. I'm not that cocky 20 something behind the wheel anymore. I love the car just the way it is. I feel very forntunate to be able to afford a car this expensive. All those years of having no money while putting my wife through school has finally paid off.

desquirrel

01-04-2005, 11:51 AM

AWD has very little to do with "winter time" per se. It is a sport option. It is essentially Mercedes 4-matic. Tests by Road and Track and Car and Driver in Michigan snows confirm all you need for winter is stablity control.

Geophrum

01-04-2005, 07:36 PM

mine is an RWD and i loved it in the snow.. i have owned a nissan maxima befor this and couldnt handle as nice as this does.. i also own a 4X4 Blazer and the magnum handls just as good for being a RWD car.. granted the Blazer is better... I live in NH, hills and snow together and i am very happy with how the RWD handled itself. i am glad i got it.., but i am not going to diss the AWD.. if it was out when i gotr mine i probably would of gotten that instead..

MagnumHemi

01-04-2005, 09:03 PM

Here in Utah the mountains have received over 300 inches of snow already this year. The canyon roads are often only open to AWD vechicles. So buying AWD drive is a no brainer. Otherwise you're hitch hiking, riding the bus or staying home. I'm all about enjoying the face shots that are at the top of those canyon roads. This car is going to be great for skiing, snowboarding or pulling the snowmachines.

Let it snow!!

AmericanMuscle

01-09-2005, 09:47 PM

Honestly in some places a AWD or 4x4 is needed. But living in Alberta snowfalls are moderate and a RWD on "a truck" with no weight on the back is fine. Plus it adds a little fun challenge while driving in the winter time.

desquirrel

01-10-2005, 01:07 PM

In reports concerning the marketing decisions, it was said Chrysler offered AWD for 2 reasons: the enhanced sport handling and to keep the uneducated consumer from buying an SUV. Any snow deep enough to stop a Magnum with stability control is going to stop the AWD Magnum. What's the ground clearance??? I think the AWD is even lower.

SUCK_MY_DRAFT

01-10-2005, 01:10 PM

I chosse RWD because their is no need for it here in So Cal. If I were in an area where the winters are more harsh then I would have to reconsider, but hell it never even rains in SoCal :help:

done

01-10-2005, 06:55 PM

dockjell

01-11-2005, 09:15 AM

I live in the northern part of Sweden and for me the AWD is the only option. My plans are to come over to US this spring and see if I can get my hands on a couple of pre-owned R/T AWD in mint condition.

Here we have snow and ice from early november to late april, so AWD is a must, with that kind of performance the R/T have.

Hemi Pete

01-11-2005, 05:32 PM

AWD is a waste of money if you aren't gonna use it. Not much bad weather, then let the traction and stability control take care of you! If you're planning on some serious road racing, then get it.

done

01-11-2005, 05:49 PM

AWD is a waste of money if you aren't gonna use it. Not much bad weather, then let the traction and stability control take care of you! If you're planning on some serious road racing, then get it.

By the same logic, faulty, why even have the hemi. You can't use the power it has all the time. In fact, my AWD is in use everytime I drive. Quit thinking snow, the Magnum is not a Hummer or a Jeep.

I will wager a bottle of Tennessee's finest that you will not see a DC advertiement with a Magnum in the snow before April 1.

WumpscuT

01-11-2005, 09:18 PM

desquirrel

01-11-2005, 09:53 PM

Many posts here point out the rational of the Chrysler internal memos about people's perceptions. Many of you are stuck in 1970s think. You are not comparing AWD and RWD or AWD and FWD. You have to compare AWD and RWD with stability control. A lot of this stuff is not "opinion". Road and Track did extensive testing in the snows of Michigan. They basically said you do not need AWD to "get through the winter".

done

01-11-2005, 10:42 PM

They both have their places, but in deciding which to get, you gotta think about your needs. AWD is better in snow, no questions about that. I live in miami florida... I'd kill for snow. Down here, I'd recommend an RWD, unless you need to tow a boat or jet skit, then i'd recommend an AWD so that you can have the added traction when you're on the wet ramp and you're trying to pull a boat and trailer back out of the water.

for those that race... You get the benefit of more traction off the line, but you have the disadvantage of added weight and power loss due to more moving parts. Drag cars are rear wheel drive for a reason.... However, for off road use, AWD is definately the way to go.

All in all, you gotta figure out what you're needs are, and you gotta get the car thats right for you.

AWD is not now allowed in CART, IRL or Forumulae One, although it used to be used in Indy cars prior to CART and in Formulae One in the 70's and 80's. Does that suggest that AWD may be useful somewhere other than snow?

You need to quit thinking that AWD=SUV. AWD, the way DC has implemented it, is simply a better way to put the power of the engine on the road in all circumstances.

mb190sl

01-12-2005, 02:22 PM

I have had my AWD for about one month now, and with this crazy weather, have had the opportunity to drive in plenty of snow and rain. The car handles extremely well in both of those driving conditions. Wet pavement has the same feel as dry. It should improve the handling under most all conditions, not just snow. So far, I am very impressed with the AWD.

WumpscuT

01-13-2005, 07:53 AM

AWD is not now allowed in CART, IRL or Forumulae One, although it used to be used in Indy cars prior to CART and in Formulae One in the 70's and 80's. Does that suggest that AWD may be useful somewhere other than snow?

Go to a local drag strip.... get a magnum RT AWD vs a magnum RT RWD and compare their quarter mile times and then tell me which is better for a drag race...

Grand Patron

01-13-2005, 08:14 AM

done

01-13-2005, 10:37 AM

Go to a local drag strip.... get a magnum RT AWD vs a magnum RT RWD and compare their quarter mile times and then tell me which is better for a drag race...

Good question, hopefully we can find out this spring.

What's your guess?

I expect about dead even.

RT_AWD

01-13-2005, 03:52 PM

Would be interesting to do that "Drag Race" with a couple of inches snow on the track and see how the "AWD is a waste of money"

desquirrel

01-13-2005, 04:12 PM

On a drag strip the AWD will lose because it is heavier.

Snow on the track, AWD would be better but not hugely so.

Add a coat of ice, AWD would probably win because the amount of total traction on driven wheels would be greater. Stability is still going to cut the throttle to practically nothing.

And AGAIN posts like my "RT AWD did great in the snow, therefore I need it" are a waste of typing because the POINT is a normal RT would not have gotten stuck or slid off the road either.

NickstNick

01-13-2005, 04:17 PM

Who needs a friggin AWD when you have a mighty '71 Toyota Land Cruiser sitting idle in the freakin drive way. I know...I used to live in the Colorado mountains..now I live by the beach in Florida...I'm not gonna drive my Mag in bad weather...Rocky Mountain Dreaming.... some day I shall return...

WumpscuT

01-13-2005, 10:07 PM

Scott_S

01-14-2005, 12:08 AM

On a drag strip the AWD will lose because it is heavier..
Until several AWDs have been put to clock, your statement is conjecture and should be stated as such. The AWD has the advantages of greater final drive ratio and greater traction. The RWD has the advantages of lower weight and parasitic losses. Actual tests need to be run to determine which design features are the most beneficial for acceleration.

Snow on the track, AWD would be better but not hugely so..
I can't let this statement and the theme of your post go unchallenged, because it is the opposite of what other AWD owners, including myself, have observed. AWD Magnum is far superior to RWD or FWD cars which crawl along at an annoying pace in the snow. In the rain, the AWD is amazing in its ability to put the Hemi's power on the pavement without interference of the ESP. AWD accelerates nearly as well when the road is wet as it does when the road is dry. AWD does a great job of distributing power to wheels when cornering. It is amazing how much power you can use when turning, without sliding or being hindered by ESP.

And AGAIN posts like my "RT AWD did great in the snow, therefore I need it" are a waste of typing because the POINT is a normal RT would not have gotten stuck or slid off the road either.
I have no doubt that the RWD Magnum performs nearly has well as FWD cars in the snow. However, the AWD will take you where a RWD can not go. One AWD owner reported not being able to get up his snow covered driveway in a rented 300C, but could make it with his AWD Magnum and other 4-wheel drive vehicles. My experience with my AWD RT Magnum is that it is far superior on any slippery surface to any front or rear drive cars I have ever driven, including some with traction control. AWD also provides turning advantages, by pulling the car around a turn, which might make the difference in staying on the road or sliding off.

MattRobertson

01-14-2005, 12:56 AM

Oh my. I think we have the makings of this forum's first Jihad here. Or at least the first one I have seen. They can be quite entertaining.

No shortage of commentary and no shortage of subjective opinions. Reading between the lines here I am guessing none of the commentators has direct experience with both types of Magnum in inclement weather and thus is able to hazard anything other than a decent guess on whatever point it is they're making.

Speaking of anecdotal observation un-encumbered by empirical evidence etc: I've run my RWD in heavy coastal winds coupled with buckets o' rain and been the only one able to maintain
a) freeway speed.
b) my vehicle between the lane lines without being blown out of same.

The rwd handled just dandy plowing through what amounted to shallow creeks at 60-80 mph, and yes the much-maligned Conti's handled superbly (I jhave the self-sealing ones so maybe they're special somehow). It took me a minute to figure out why everyone else was going so slow... they were affected by the weather a lot more than I was in my 4100-lb yacht.

Would an AWD have done better? I guess if you count 'better' as being able to push it to 100. But would you want to?

Its *all* good. :rck:

Scott_S

01-14-2005, 01:10 AM

Good question, hopefully we can find out this spring.

What's your guess?

I expect about dead even.

Don,

I would expect the AWD vs. RWD drag race to play out like this:

The AWD would be quicker off the line, but RWD would have a higher trap speed. A test at the drag strip will provide 60 foot and 1/4 miles times and tell us at what speed or distance the RWD might catch up.

I also wanted to complement you on the pictures your posted elsewhere of your car. My wife wanted black -- and it is beautiful. But, I could never keep it clean enough where I drive.

In my opinion, Black makes the most out of the AWD rims. They look really good. I think this is because, black provides the greatest contrast with our dully polished AWD rims.

Scott

Scott_S

01-14-2005, 01:44 AM

MattRobertson

01-14-2005, 09:55 AM

Matt,

If I'm wrong about something or you want to know the basis for a statement, why not ask a question instead of lowering the level of discourse with a diss?

Scott
Scott,

I'm sorry and I didn't mean to offend. Looking over my post yes, it does look a little flippant and if I gave the wrong impression I apologize.

What I was getting at is that we are all guessing here, and it seemed to me at least as if the back-and-forth was beginning to get a little sharp.

To my knowledge there is nothing firm published in the way of a comparative, split-run or head-to-head test (although I did see something by a guy somewhere who got a dealer to let him take one of each out and pound them. His verdict was the AWD was a much more stable performer on dry pavement hard cornering, if I recall correctly).

We can all speculate, and have a spirited discussion wondering which will do what versus the other, but until we can get something more than that, I'm not sure anyone can make any "this is how it is" kind of statement.

Scott_S

01-14-2005, 11:12 AM

To my knowledge there is nothing firm published in the way of a comparative, split-run or head-to-head test (although I did see something by a guy somewhere who got a dealer to let him take one of each out and pound them. His verdict was the AWD was a much more stable performer on dry pavement hard cornering, if I recall correctly).

We can all speculate, and have a spirited discussion wondering which will do what versus the other, but until we can get something more than that, I'm not sure anyone can make any "this is how it is" kind of statement.

Matt,

Thanks for the courteous reply. Do you refer to my post?
http://www.dodgemagnum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4058

I share your basic concern: When speculating based on reasonable theories -- one still needs to call it speculation. When reporting observations or test results, describe them. That way, others can see the basis for statements and can evaluate their reliability and limitations.

Scott

desquirrel

01-14-2005, 11:52 AM

done

01-14-2005, 12:15 PM

I'm a little confused as to what we are speculating on.

1) AWD handles better. It is its' purpose. Or to clarify more, it allows an "average" driver to more easily experience a higher level of handling. I'm sure Mario Andretti would prefer a RWD (and the ability to TOTALLY switch it off) and get the best lap times with it. This is akin to an avg person getting ABS where Mario would switch that off also.

2) Look at ANY Car & Driver, R & T, et al test. A RT has faster 1/4 mi. and 0-60 than a RT AWD. Also 5-10% better mpg.

I ordered an AWD for the handling benefits. My comments were directed to statements such as "it snows where I live, I had to get an AWD". This to me shows that these people know very little about what they are spending $35k on.

If I lived in the mountains, would I get AWD for "the snow"? Probably.

I live in NJ. It snows Tues night, they plow Wed AM. Would I get AWD "for snow" and have the future mechanical complications and lower mileage? No.

I see these issues in this discussion:

1. The AWD is not just a "snow" car. This is my focus.

2. Does the AWD actually work better in adverse weather?

3. Is the AWD worth the extra cost?

4. Is the AWD slower in the 1/4 mile.

By the way, I was unable to find any article that showed 1/4 mile times for the AWD. Can you point me to one?

My main focus in posting has been to educate those that have said "AWD=Snow" that there is another reason to buy and own the AWD.

MattRobertson

01-14-2005, 12:20 PM

Do you refer to my post?

Yes indeed. I looked for it before posting this morning but on the wrong forum. And that makes you -- to my knowledge at least -- the one person out there who has done any genuine comparison, and attempted to control the circumstances to a degree to boot. While we're on the subject another site did mention, in their Magnum review, that Dodge people driving the AWD were able to make amazingly sticky+fast slalom maneuvers.

Not to belittle your fine efforts (I like probably everyone else read every word and found it to be very useful) but that forum post and what is essentially a visual observation at the other site are all we have.

I'd love to see an two bone-stock awd/rwd magnums put to it. In good road conditions and bad, in a straight line and on various curves.

I wonder if its possible to find two stock Magnums on this forum? I doubt it :D

Lastly, the dealer I visited had a black AWD and an RWD. Someone nabbed the AWD just before me or I'd be driving *that* instead of mine. While I'm thrilled with what I have, I would have liked that extra edge. I think.

Cheers,

Scott_S

01-15-2005, 12:16 AM

Black RT AWD

Sirius
CD Changer
Conv Grp II
Electronics Grp
Remote Start

Ordered it 2 weeks ago. Called DC to see when it would be scheduled. The guy told me it was on "parts hold", that all AWDs had been "allocated through Jan", and don't even bother to call back "until February".
__________________
Brilliant Black RT AWD, Electronics Grp, Convenience Grp, Sirius, Remote start, CD changer .

My friend!

I finally can make sense of your AWD comments -- your AWD is still on order and you don't have it yet!! I strongly suspect that your expectations on the AWD capabilities are based on poorly informed salesman and "guessers" on forums. Am I right? (I know I am!) I have been puzzling how someone could claim to own an AWD and write the things you did. It wasn't until I read your posts in other threads that this situation became clear.

Okay, here are a few things you need to know that I learned from my discussions with several dealers and from what other consumers have reported:

1. Dodge has prepared their sales people to defend the performance of RWD in a market of FWD cars, but have not yet explained how AWD fits into the picture.

2. Dodge/Chrysler dealers know about 4 wheel drive trucks and AWD mini-vans, but performance AWD appears to be a new concept to the dealers. It appears that many dealers have an inadequate understanding of AWD capabilities. May be there are some salesman that have some descent knowledge, but it is nothing like the system wide education Dodge has done for RWD vs. FWD.

3. You ordered AWD, so obviously AWD capabilities are of interest to you. As person that has just put 3000 miles on an AWD RT, I can say from first hand knowledge, that you will be getting more capabilities with AWD than you realize. Be prepared for amazement!

May I offer a recommendation? Accept that some of the things you have been told about AWD may be, understated, inadequate, and even wrong. If you want to know what the AWD is like, read the messages by their owners and post questions. I can't recall reading a single message by a AWD owner that was misleading about AWD benefits or how it works in various conditions.

2) Look at ANY Car & Driver, R & T, et al test. A RT has faster 1/4 mi. and 0-60 than a RT AWD. Also 5-10% better mpg.
Wrong, wrong, wrong! This information does not exist yet in any mainstream auto publications. Whoever is feeding you this malarky needs a slap up side the head.

Scott

desquirrel

01-15-2005, 02:09 PM

You're a little mistaken friend. I have never talked to a salesman, misinformed or not. You seem to be a little confused. You should read what I said (maybe twice). I bought the AWD for handling.

1) Dodge does not have to "defend" the RWD platform. Weight distribution makes RWD with stability program superior to FWD. The marketing problem is the lack of public education.

2) There is nothing "new" in this AWD. It is MB 4-matic and has been around for many years.

I don't know what half your comments are about but they don't refer to anything I've posted.

As to "head to head comparison", your right about one thing: nobody has run a RWD and AWD side by side. Nobody has run an AWD "side by side" with a Ford 500 either. I guess that means we don't know if it can beat the 500. I subscribe to Autoweek, Road & Track and Car and Driver. They all do standard road test. When a variant (AWD) comes out, they all publish a little 1 page report. The AWD is slower. It's a little thing called physics.

dockjell

01-17-2005, 03:20 AM

Hi again guys and gals...:)
I musy say I´m a little surprised over the proportions this thread have become.. LoL
First of all I have to say that I´ve never driven the Magnum (with or without AWD), but I don´t think that magnum are so much different than other cars. I have a Subaru Foreseter XT -04, it´s a little bit tuned (approx 230-240 hp) and I do low 14´s with the car and there are no FWD/RWD car under 300 hp that beats me. I have a 60ft time under 1.6... Why...? AWD... With a car under 500 hp I think it´s a big advance to have the grip on all 4 in street and drag. And if it´s a little bit of rain... I just love it, no one will race against me.

My last 3-4 cars have been all AWD... The only negative about the AWD have to be the weight, but I´ll live with that and compensate it with a couple of more horses.

I hope to find a white or black, mint condition R/T AWD in the US this spring and convert it to a real mean street-machine. Here where I live there are not so many US performance-cars who are racing, but the fastest "street-legals" are a couple of Stangs with NOS who are developing approx 5-700 hp and maybe doing high 10´s. With 450-500 in the AWD Magnum I have a "family-car" and a race car that maybe does mid 11´s (I think that is realistic) and a car that takes me to the mountains in the winther to skiing. I´m not so sure that a 500+ RWD are so wery funny to drive in winther connditions, but a overpowered AWD car are hysterical funny to drive in snow.

I don´t say that the RWD are a bad car and if I lived in Florida or Southern California I probebly have bought a RWD, but for my use the AWD are the right choise "AWD; -twice as fun.." LoL

Doc

PS
I wonder why AWD cars in DTM and other Saloon- and sport-car series are banned these days..? I don´t think the problem was that they where to slow...:)

Yoshi5674

01-24-2005, 05:04 PM

I test drove both a RWD and a AWD RT last friday in the snow. It was slicker than a minows peter outside but both cars handled great. I took them to a parking lot just to see what it took to break loose in a turn and such. The RWD could be alot of fun and handled beter than I thought it would(Ex-camaro owner), but the AWD is the one for me. It was like riding on rails! AWESOME!

MagnumClub

03-07-2005, 07:16 PM

I took this picture of a RWD and an AWD Magnum side-by-side out at the Barrett Jackson Auction. I was on a slope but you can still get an idea of the height difference between the two.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/MagnumCLub/100_0987.jpg

www.magnumownersclub.com

I added a couple of pictures for your viewing pleasure. Challenger with a Viper engine and Nitrous Oxide.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/MagnumCLub/100_0995.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/MagnumCLub/100_0991.jpg

SaskSebring

03-08-2005, 10:22 AM

By the same logic, faulty, why even have the hemi. You can't use the power it has all the time. In fact, my AWD is in use everytime I drive. Quit thinking snow, the Magnum is not a Hummer or a Jeep.

I will wager a bottle of Tennessee's finest that you will not see a DC advertiement with a Magnum in the snow before April 1.

Well, I'll take that bet. Here's the new Magnum commercial:
http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/DCTV/Mar05/magnum_magic_HI.wvx

I can't wait to try some of Tennessee's finest!
;)

done

03-08-2005, 11:55 AM

Well, I'll take that bet. Here's the new Magnum commercial:
http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/DCTV/Mar05/magnum_magic_HI.wvx

I can't wait to try some of Tennessee's finest!
;)

You are the winner!! PM me with a PayPal address or a home address since I can't really ship a bottle of liqour out of state. I will pay for you to buy a bottle and you you can drink a toast to DC and the Magnums for all of us.

Offer is now expired. First post got the prize.

Blkmagnum

03-09-2005, 08:35 AM

Nobody seems to consider the fact that an AWD car handles better than RWD. I chose the AWD mainly because it'll handle corners better than RWD. AWD does tend to understeer vs. RWD which oversteers but they can be pushed harder through corners.

done

03-09-2005, 09:58 AM

MikeEast

03-09-2005, 06:04 PM

To me this whole thread is pretty much moot - I bought the first Brilliant Black Metallic PearlCoat Magnum RT that had the options I wanted - AWD or RWD? it's all personal choice, either one will handle the snow if properly driven, the AWD probably more so. For the Atlanta area, the RWD is the only version that makes sense (to me), but then that's what this country is all about, isn't it? Choice. We have seriously cool cars that never fail to turn heads, most people don't - and that's a LOT of what all this is about, isn't it?

I just got back from picking up supper from the Mexican place just up the road - and had 6 (six!) people ask me about the car. One dude asked about AWD and I told him what I thought of it - 'If it floats your boat, go for it, either version is cooler than most cars on the road today'..

I just wish our local mexican resteraunt was further away - I love driving this car!!

Mike

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/MikeEast/my%20magnum/1b5c8c9d.jpg

SaskSebring

03-11-2005, 04:21 PM

You are the winner!! PM me with a PayPal address or a home address since I can't really ship a bottle of liqour out of state. I will pay for you to buy a bottle and you you can drink a toast to DC and the Magnums for all of us.

Offer is now expired. First post got the prize.

Ha ha ha, Of course I don't expect you to send me anything. It's all in fun.

On another note, since I was the one who started this post, I thought I'd let you all know that I ended up going with the RWD myself. Got it a week ago just in time to head out to the family farm for the weekend. Got a good test in some serious slushy snow. The farm lane consisted of a winter's worth of hard packed snow/ice. However, the melting temperatures over the past week along with a heavy rainfall overnight made it a slushy, sloppy mess. The magnum handled it great. Turn off ESP and you're all over the place. With it on, you have a brief wheelspin, then it creeps along at the maximum speed it can go without slipping. Giving it more gas had no effect. I was quite impressed. I'm sure AWD would be even better, but for my needs, I think RWD with ESP is going to be just fine.
Oh, and I love knowing that I could spin a donut if I really wanted to. ;)

done

03-11-2005, 10:37 PM

Ha ha ha, Of course I don't expect you to send me anything. It's all in fun.

On another note, since I was the one who started this post, I thought I'd let you all know that I ended up going with the RWD myself. Got it a week ago just in time to head out to the family farm for the weekend. Got a good test in some serious slushy snow. The farm lane consisted of a winter's worth of hard packed snow/ice. However, the melting temperatures over the past week along with a heavy rainfall overnight made it a slushy, sloppy mess. The magnum handled it great. Turn off ESP and you're all over the place. With it on, you have a brief wheelspin, then it creeps along at the maximum speed it can go without slipping. Giving it more gas had no effect. I was quite impressed. I'm sure AWD would be even better, but for my needs, I think RWD with ESP is going to be just fine.
Oh, and I love knowing that I could spin a donut if I really wanted to. ;)

You are indeed a gentleman. I hope you are enjoying your Magnum as much as I enjoy mine.

chez1701

03-28-2005, 07:56 AM

I would like AWD, sure it's heaver but you may never know once you use it!

Rockadile

03-29-2005, 12:52 PM

I was looking at bout the RWD and AWD before I ended up buying the RWD. My last 3 cars where 4x4s. I was a bit reluctant to get the RWD since I am used to being able to go out in any weather without worrying about how my car handles. Also, I've heard that there is would be some performance loss with the AWD. I didn't so much research on this and I didn't even test drive the AWD. When it was time to go shopping, the AWDs on the dealer lots were loaded with items I didn't want making the price difference between the RWD (with options I wanted) and the AWD (both on the dealer lots) about 8k more. I probably would have paid the 3k difference, but 8k was a bit steep. This coupled with the fact that our other car is a Jeep Libery made the decision easier.

Needless to say, the car has handled flawlessly here in PA with the snowy weather. If I was more north, maybe I would have bought the AWD. But the RWD is the best fit for my driving style and area.

MagnumSXT

03-29-2005, 03:21 PM

I don't like the wheels on the AWD. To think, thinks like that make or break a deal.

Founder

04-01-2005, 04:17 AM

I personally don't feel the need to purchase AWD unless you live in a state where weather is a problem in the winter months. I'm in FL so no need for AWD.

SaskSebring

04-05-2005, 12:58 AM

I don't like the wheels on the AWD. To think, thinks like that make or break a deal.

I know what you mean. After debating over this for quite a while, I still couldn't decide on RWD or AWD. In the end this was one of the deciding factors... I really didn't like the AWD wheels, and I knew there was no way I was convincing my wife that we'd be springing for some aftermarket rims. Getting the R/T was pushing it enough already. :)
I went with RWD and love it. It works great in the snow (and we get a LOT of it here).

phellany

05-23-2005, 01:11 PM

I live near the Sierra Foothills about 70 miles east of Yosemite Valley
I got so tired of putting chains on and them taking them off again while the wife and kids make faces from inside the car.
It will be a joy this next winter to be able to just drive to the slopes or into the mountains without the 1 hr laying down in the snow interlude.
AWD all the way Whoo Hoo

MattRobertson

05-23-2005, 05:08 PM

I live near the Sierra Foothills about 70 miles east of Yosemite ValleySonora?

dantodd

05-23-2005, 10:30 PM

I went with the RWD. I prefer the driving charateristics plus I live on the SF Peninsula so weather is really not an issue. Plus my wife's Volvo Wagon is AWD so we're covered if required.

phellany

05-26-2005, 08:22 AM

I live in Riverbank CA thats in the central valley between Modesto and Stockton
I drove the car to San Francisco its first road trip it now has 378 miles on it
Cant wait for 500 miles when I can open it up
Its an AWD and handles like a dream.
Heading up to Yosemite and the Tioga Pass area Friday for some fishing so I will really get a good test on handling ice and snow we have had one of the weirdest winters on record. Here it is May and many of the roads through the Sierras arent even open yet or have chain controls.
2006 Magnum R/T AWD took a year to get it but damn it was worth it.

MattRobertson

05-26-2005, 11:10 AM

Phellany,

I got into Yosemite Valley with my RWD maybe a month ago during a light snowstorm. No chains. The rangers gave me some funky looks but nobody stopped me. The ESP really didn't kick in unless I forced the issue and did something deliberately inadvisable to test it, which surprised me. Even if there's snow on the road you should sail through, although with the rains we had a week or so ago -- which was a small blizzard in Yosemite -- I hear it was a couple days before some motorists in citified vehicles were allowed to leave.

MeanMagnum

06-03-2005, 02:16 PM

When I got my SXT the AWD option was not out yet, so I have RWD and love it. I used to have a Jeep and this thing outperforms it. I have the low profile GoodYear Eagles on it (thought that might have been a mistake), but they handle the Minnesota winters without a problem. Sometimes it's fun driving sort of sideways. :gr_patrio

DaBomb

06-07-2005, 07:21 PM

Long but relevant story.....

I went to buy a Magnum in the middle of a December snowstorm up here in New England. I wanted a car right away and I had a price ceiling that I was willing to spend. I went in thinking I was going to buy a AWD SXT. I test drove one, and the salesman even let me take it to a big empty parking lot where we played in the snow doing trying to do donuts etc. The AWD was great, totally stayed in control. No donuts for me.

For the same exact money there was an RT on the lot without AWD. So we took that out, went to the same parking lot and played around. With ESP off the thing was a four wheel donut factory. :D With ESP "ON" it maintained excellent control. My only gripe is that the car was clearly thinking for you as it started to slide, shutting off the gas supply, braking certain wheels etc. I liked the fact the the AWD would go where you pointed it without over compensating for you (I believe this was only with ESP off however). Either way. The AWD didn't specifically feel "safer" than an RWD with ESP on, but it did feel more fun. I love winter driving, sliding etc. I thought the AWD enhanced the fun of driving in winter while keeping it in predictable control. The RWD with ESP on was equally safe feeling but not for the rally style enthusiast that wants to drive the car themself. The ESP on the RWD clearly takes the fun out of driving hard in winter.

So speaking of fun.... Despite the fact that I live up here and do lots of winter driving and skiing trips into the mountains, the Hemi was the better bang for my buck. Hemi=365 days of FUN!

I bought the RT with RWD over the SXT with AWD. Moral of my story, if you have to choose between Hemi power or AWD, choose Hemi. If you can afford both HEMI power and AWD handling, get 'em both....!

hope it helps some of you decide,
alex

joseph1

06-08-2005, 09:37 PM

Scott_S

06-10-2005, 12:24 PM

I'll go with AWD, because I plan on supercharging and I want all the power to hit the road. I know, the wheels suck but that's nothing money can't fix. (I don't have money now, but when I do I'll take care of it)

Supercharging an AWD should make your Magnum a rocket from a dead start! Please keep us informed.

Regarding the wheels, Some AWD owners, including myself, find that the appearance of the wheels "grows-on you" over a time. Besides the solid 5 spoke design is very similar to that used on the SRT, which surely has to be a positive association.

Scott

DurangoLmtd

06-19-2005, 06:29 PM

MattRobertson

06-20-2005, 01:07 PM

don't forget to redo the brakes, too.

roba1221

07-20-2005, 08:57 PM

Well. Here is the next salvo in the AWD vs. RWD war. Just read the new Car and Driver review of the RT/AWD in the Aug 05 issue and to my amazement, the AWD was FASTER than the RWD in the quarter mile AND 0-60 by two tenths of a sec. With this new found data, the only reason now not to buy this car for a mere $2000 more is if they change those damn wheels.

Here is the Link:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=41&article_id=9766&page_number=1

Rob

desquirrel

07-20-2005, 10:04 PM

Hey, I LIKE those wheels.

Most of the wheels here are hideous monstrosities. I don't understand replacing an alloy wheel with a chrome plated steel one just to get nods from trailer park denizens.

MattRobertson

07-21-2005, 12:29 PM

Well. Here is the next salvo in the AWD vs. RWD war. To add a dash of cold water in the face of this revelation, Car and Driver's best times were 14.7 seconds for an RWD and 14.5 for the AWD. 0-60 in 5.9 (AWD) vs. 0-60 in 6.1 (RWD). How many of us have stomped all over these numbers in stock Magnums?

I'd want to see more on how the number was arrived at. I personally saw one Magnum owner consistently thump four or five others by about 0.4 in the 1/4 mile, and kept doing it to us when she switched Magnums.

Can't help but think of the magazine's Name: Car AND Driver ;)

roba1221

07-21-2005, 02:16 PM

Well ..here is another strange fact. I myself work for a dealer here in CT and I am getting ready to order an 06 Magnum RT AWD for May 06 delivery. While I was researching the pro/cons of AWD, I noticed the significant weight diff between the Awd systems. On an SXT it adds 368 lbs. but on an RT it only adds 214 lbs. Any ideas why?

Hemi31

07-21-2005, 03:28 PM

SXT adds 18" wheels and tires,R/T already has them?

MattRobertson

07-21-2005, 06:11 PM

The RWD R/T alloy wheels are really light weight. I shipped mine to a guy who bought them from me and, with the box AND the bolts, they weighed 26 lbs each in shipping weight. IIRC the wheels are like 21 lbs each. For all I know the AWD wheels are heavier? They look it but that means nothing.

Hemi31

07-21-2005, 08:36 PM

The question is how heavy are the sxt 17" wheels.To go from those to the AWD 18" wheels and tires could be the difference in weight,and does DC upgrade the brakes to a larger rotor and caliper for the AWD SXT?It doesn't sound like much but it's only 150lbs we are trying to account for here.

roba1221

07-22-2005, 09:44 AM

New Info Gang. I did not take into account the wheels weight 18's vs 17's(duh!) and now I see that you get the 5 spd Autostick transmission vs. the 4 spd auto when you go AWD on SXT plus you get the bigger fuel tank 19 gal vs. 18 gal. We are getting closer....

Super T

07-22-2005, 12:40 PM

As far as getting traction w/ the RWD... I took mine out in a rain to a freshly blacktopped parking lot (about as slick as you can get next to ice or dish soap) to test the traction control, just so I could get a feel for what the ESP was really capable of. With the wheel cut hard left, not even mashing the throttle to the floor from a dead stop could make the car fishtail even a little bit. The mercedes system is awesome (since that's who really designed the thing). Unless you come into a turn way too hot (in which case it's the ABS, not the powertrain that would help you), you'd be hard-pressed to need AWD. That's not to say it wouldn't help, and of course you'd be able to launch quicker with double the contact patch, but you do lose 1" of ground clearance and the ability to 'have fun' with it when you want to. For $2k and $5k in gas (at least it seems like it with the prices these days!) I would say it's not really worth it to step up to AWD.

desquirrel

07-22-2005, 05:29 PM

If you go into a corner "too hot" esp will definitly kick in, not just the brakes. The car will determine from yaw and wheel sensors and the amount of steering wheel correction that something is amiss, reduce power and brake the individual wheels until a normal attitude is attained.

Super T

07-24-2005, 01:29 PM

ESP modulates the braking and overrides your throttle input.... Once you put yourself in a situation where you're going too fast (i.e., coming into a slick turn too quickly and having to cut the wheels hard enough to lose traction) the braking will be what keeps you on the road. The throttle control aspect of the system really only does you any good when you accelerate quickly or through a corner, where there's a good (better than in other situations) chance your rear tires would lose traction.

Aikidoka

08-07-2005, 04:29 PM

I went with AWD for one main reason. I live on a hill and in the winter I have seen cars slide down with just a few inches of snow. I owned a Durango before I got the Magnum and it was never a worry for me. I was just concerned about the snow in Jersey if I had gone with the RWD. If I lived in an area where the weather wasnt a concern I would have gone with the Hemi.

Super T

08-08-2005, 08:37 AM

.... You can get a 5.7L AWD.......

MagZilla

08-13-2005, 07:59 PM

I'm looking at a 05 AWD and a 06 AWD. 05 is much cheaper ( of course ). I heard there is a pull to the right with the 05, how bad is it.. Or no issue..

Should I just spend the extra money and get the 06? The 05 is not in my state and I need to make a choice ASAP..

Scott_S

08-13-2005, 11:05 PM

I don't think the AWDs had the right pull problem. My AWD doesn't, Nov build, and I can't recall other AWD'ers reporting this problem.
Scott

Super T

08-14-2005, 01:53 PM

It's not consistent across all cars, but there's a TSB out for it. If your car has it, it's covered under warranty.

MagZilla

08-15-2005, 07:19 PM

How does the RWD work up hill int eh snow? Not climbing a mountain but I have a steep driveway and my town is on the side of a big hill/mountain.

During the winter we watch people slide down the road coming off the mountain and people sliding back down trying to come up. The roads are sometimes done well but tend to be bad still.

I prev. had a G35 Coupe.. The first and second year I would spin the tires up the hill and try to avoid people. I've been driving in the snow for years and like most learned in the college parking lot in an Old Culass Supreme. :gr_patrio

If the driveway and poor roads are my issues with the RWD make the cut or does it jut help with after your out of control on a turn?

Hemi31

08-15-2005, 09:09 PM

I live about 40 miles south of the NY/Canadian border.I had mine in the snow once last year and as a goof I stopped dead in the middle of the road and mashed the gas.The ESP kept the car straight and kept the tires from spinning enough that the car would still push me back in the seat.I would say that with a set of snows that you could go through anything,the balance of the car plus the weight keeps it planted very nice in all weather.

Super T

08-16-2005, 08:18 AM

hemi31... awd or rwd? and magzilla... i still drive my cutty :-D

Hemi31

08-16-2005, 07:05 PM

Rwd

gt40girl

09-02-2005, 06:29 PM

I think this debate comes down to driving style and skills. I have driven many a different cars in snow...typically front wheel drive is the best, as we all know, our magnums are RWD. I think if you are used to one type and can control your car, then that is what you drive. I think if one is uneasy about driving RWD in the snow, then a car control clinic is needed. I have also taken out my previous RWD out on the snow with out my kids and have gotten squiggly in a parking lot so that I would feel comfortable counter reacting to such situation. To me, AWD is not worth the drop in gas mileage, and I live in MN.

RT's RT

09-02-2005, 07:58 PM

I love my RT AWD. I shut the ESP off as soon as I get in the car especially in the snow. The first time I drove it in the snow I was on the highway steady throttle doing around 40. I hit a couple of heavy drifts and the esp cut the power instantly and the loss of power slowed me down way too fast. The car stayed perfectly straight but people behind me had to pretty much lock 'em up. I want to be able to keep a steady pace through some drifts. I would rather have AWD with the Traction control off than a RWD with TC on.
God, I hate that traction control. If you have ABS and half a brain you should be able to drive anything in reasonable bad weather. If you need to drive your
Magnum in severe bad weather then it's a silly question

jwl27

09-15-2005, 10:12 PM

I bought the AWD because I didnt have an all weather vehicle. Plus mine was just sitting on the lot, it had been a special order, but original purchaser changed his mind before it got in, my gain. Found out later that several people had been looking for one, then I realized how lucky I was to get one. (Southeastern Kentucky, mountains with some bad weather.

2005 Dodge Magnum RT AWD, leather, 6CD changer, navigation system, sun roof

stv9000

09-15-2005, 10:13 PM

Every car I have driven has had traction control..... its called my right foot.

Super T

09-16-2005, 09:46 AM

I'm with you stv. Just a little self-control and a basic understanding of the concept of friction are all you should need.

RT's RT

09-17-2005, 08:36 AM

I went to the dealer to get 3.55 gears, which they had in the mopar speed book; 3.55, 3.90, and 4.10, but was told that they can't be replaced in the AWD because I have some P.T.O. drive.
I haven't been under the car yet but it doesn't make sense to me because one would think that even if the transfer case is some sort of hydrolic power take-off system, you would think that it still drives a front and rear differential. Oh well, when the Zoomer resonators come in,$130 each ( I replaced the X-muffler with 2 flowmaster 40s and kept the stock resonators now they're going) and it's on the lift at the shop, I'll investigate further

Hemi31

09-17-2005, 12:12 PM

Which book listed gears?I looked in the Mopar Performance book and that only list for 8 1/4,8 3/4,and Dana 60.Post part # please.I would love to see this w/3.55 gears.Bet they would be worth 3/4 second in the quarter alone.

RT's RT

09-17-2005, 12:36 PM

It was a bluish mopar book that the dealer had. he also said that even with them being mopar and dealer installed that if you got some a$$ behind the service desk they could void the warrenty.(i don't know how they would know though if it wasn't a related problem)

but you're right 3.55 over the 3.07 would probably give you close to a second better in the 1/4 mile. I think it would really be the best bang for the buck.
Because
I put 29.74" tires on it instead of the 28.63" and I feel a HUGE difference. Thank God the car has good power to begin with otherwise I'd be bummin.
It changed the final drive from a 3.07 to a 2.96
I can however break the actual governed speed. When the car cuts off at 127 MPH I'm actually doing 132-133 MPH

And Yes.

Super T

09-17-2005, 12:41 PM

Speaking of rear ends and drive ratios... anybody know the torque capacities of the tranny/rear end? I see a lot of aftermarket parts (superchargers, exhaust, cai, etc) that together can take the car to 500+ rwhp... will the rest of the drivetrain really hold up???

RT's RT

09-17-2005, 02:37 PM

That's a hard Q to get an answer to. All I can say is that Chrysler trannys are notoriously strong. That being said, you don't know how much of an influence Mercedes had in the design because Benz trannys don't have that same rep.
I've owned them both, new and old. I've never had to do anything to my Chrysler trannys be them behind a small or big block but I have had to replace a few benz trannys behind gas and diesel.

Any of you old time gear-heads remember putting the waffle clutchs in the old mopar trans? WopWhaaaaaChirp Whaaaachirp Whaaachirp Whaaeeeeoooooww
Feeling much better now.

Super T

09-18-2005, 12:12 PM

ha ha... don't i wish this thing would chirp in all gears :-) I guess i'm just concerned that if i start building up this car, i'm gonna fry torque converters or pinion gears. the gs motorsports controller that just came out that defeats all torque management whatsoever is really tempting, but if the trans wasn't meant to maintain high torque through shifts, i don't wanna be knockin teeth off of the gears just trying to have some fun, y'know? i'm sure the exact torque capacities are deemed proprietary though. damn them :-p i guess i'll just wait a while and see if i hear of anybody blowing up their drivetrain.

RT_AWD

11-19-2005, 02:46 PM

I average 22 mpg just driving to work. When we went to the outer banks this summer I got as good as 26. Not bad for a 4500 pound car AND awd loaded with 4 people and luggage. I guess it's all in your driving habits. AWD, RWD does it really matter? Just like the color of your car, it's all about personal preference, isn't it.

desquirrel

11-19-2005, 02:54 PM

"this summer I got as good as 26"

Was that was that return trip from Pike's Peak with the 60mph tailwind?? :).

"Just like the color of your car, it's all about personal preference, isn't it."

Ummm, No. The cars are quite different. As has been stated many times in the auto press AWD is a handling/performance option. A simpler version of MB 4-matic, if you will. It was "pushed through" by the engineers by saying it could be sold to ignorant consumers "afraid" that the car did not have fwd and to people considering SUVs.

RT_AWD

11-19-2005, 09:50 PM

I don't know about the tail wind, but when we left the OBX I set the cruise at 55 for about 2 hours at which point I checked it. (We left late at night to avoid traffic), it was 26.3. Once we got into more traffic and I started driving 65-70 . I checked it again when we got home and it was 23.7 . I don't remember see pike's peeks along the way.....

desquirrel

11-20-2005, 07:13 PM

Super T

11-21-2005, 10:08 AM

Right on squirrel... 55mph for an hour, i averaged 24.5 mpg. reset the cluster, did 75mph for an hour, averaged 21.8 mpg. cruise uninterrupted the whole time. apparently that 0.29 drag coefficient hurts more than one might think. if i reset it when i get gas and have to wait to pull out into traffic, i average 4.5 mpg for that first minute. if you really wanna know what your car gets, don't reset it, ever.

djc208

11-21-2005, 11:47 AM

The problem is that drag is not linear with speed. Don't have the math in front of me but drag increases much faster than speed. I want to say it's exponential but again I don't have the math next to me to verify and it's been a while since fluid dynamics class. But it takes more than twice as much power to go twice as fast if all other things are equal.

RT_AWD

11-21-2005, 03:14 PM

Instantaneous readings from the EVIC are useless. Anybody can reset the EVIC on the highway and say "look we're getting 25". Add in the 12 going up the onramp and 14 getting to the highway and you get what everyybody gets overall.

I wasn't talking about instantaneuos reading. I reset the EVIC when we filled up with gas BEFORE we left OBX. 2 hours LATER I checked it and it read 26.3. I never said I reset the EVIC while I was driving. And as I STATED, our over all gas miliage was 23.7. What I didn't mention was, my car had less than 5000 miles on it. It now has over 20,000 miles on it and I can very easily get 22mpg on each tank of gas. So I'm sure if we did that same trip now,I wouldn't be surprised to get 25mpg on a tank of gas.
I don't understand why people find it hard to believe the gas miliage I get. Alot of it is how you drive. My last to new vehicles I owned, I had over 100,000 on each before I ever had to replace the brakes or clutches. I usually get 10,000 miles more on my tires than what thier rated at. Although, the tires on my Magnum suck. I'm not sure I can get 10,000 miles more on them.
I don't do jack rabbit starts or drive like I'm late for a fire. So no matter how you slice it, I very pleased with the gas miliage I get for a car that heavy with AWD. If your gas miliage is is less than desiriable, well, it sucks to be you.

Super T

11-21-2005, 04:34 PM

RT_AWD, it does indeed suck to be us :-p I deliberately drove like an old lady (no offense to any elderly women who may post here), all 65 mph highway (my god was doing the speed limit painful), for a full tank, in low-wind conditions on flat IL highways. I got 22.2 mpg. I can't think of a single thing I could do to get it any better. I made sure my tires were properly inflated and everything. I guess mine's just a little more thirsty.

RT_AWD

11-23-2005, 11:48 AM

I guess I should count my blessing that mine is less thirsty than most. I have notice my gas mileage go up since I hit the 20,000 mile marker. And for whatever reason it seems to get better gas mileage on 89 octane rather than the 91 plus octane.

RT's RT

11-23-2005, 06:05 PM

I'd be happy as a clam if I got 20mpg. Between the almost 30" tires and a 170 degree t'stat, I couldn't get 22 mpg if I drove it out of an airplane at 50,000'
My average mileage is around 13-14 mpg. I drive about 35 miles on the highway and about 40-50 around town a day.

Blackhawk

12-09-2005, 03:21 PM

On an SXT it adds 368 lbs. but on an RT it only adds 214 lbs.

I can't believe the discussion regarding the pittance of weigh AWD adds. :huh: A few hundred pounds... SO WHAT! We are not talking about girlfriends here! :thatfunny Does the payload drop in an AWD Magnum? Most of us aren't dragging here, so what is up with the additional weight? Do you think anybody's ever told their wife "we better not get pi$$y with that guy next to us honey, remember, we all just filled up our gullets at Hometown Buffet and this 'ol girl might not get outta the hole like she did on the way there". Well, I guess 154# is 154#. That's why I always drive around in EMPTY. Just kidding, guys, but I maaaaaybe could see it if it was 550#, but this is a car here.

Hemi31

12-09-2005, 04:11 PM

I can't believe the discussion regarding the pittance of weigh AWD adds. :huh: A few hundred pounds... SO WHAT! We are not talking about girlfriends here! :thatfunny Does the payload drop in an AWD Magnum? Most of us aren't dragging here, so what is up with the additional weight? Do you think anybody's ever told their wife "we better not get pi$$y with that guy next to us honey, remember, we all just filled up our gullets at Hometown Buffet and this 'ol girl might not get outta the hole like she did on the way there". Well, I guess 154# is 154#. That's why I always drive around in EMPTY. Just kidding, guys, but I maaaaaybe could see it if it was 550#, but this is a car here.
Actually there are alot more of us that do drag these cars than you may realize.

sausage5000

12-29-2005, 07:46 PM

I have an RT/AWD so I thought I would jump in and tell you why I wanted the AWD.

...

So here is my take on AWD. I always thought that AWD made sense in a car design starting back in the 60’s when I watched the Granitelli turbine cars at the Indy 500. They had AWD so that they could get more power to the ground in the days before “ground effects”. Also, Al Unser drove an AWD car in the 1968 500. The next year AWD was banned in Championship cars and has never been allowed since in CART and IRL. AWD cars were also raced in Formulae One in the seventies and eighties and later banned there also.

...

As to some other specific opinions, burning rubber doesn’t thrill me nearly as much as massive acceleration. I would expect the higher axle ratio would offset the extra weight.. The overall height of the AWD’s is one inch higher than the non-AWD versions. The ground clearance is 1 inch better. The AWD is 211 pounds heavier than the RT, however, that is not all added unsprung weight. The transfer case, drive shaft and front differential are all mounted to frame/body/engine. The balance is 55/45, still not bad.

I would never buy an SUV, but my wife’s car is a Town & Country Limited/AWD.

first post. but, wow! you guys are on the cutting edge, or whatever. i wanted to know more about the "ground effects" that direct more power to the ground. the unsprung weight issue also excites me. so, where the parts are mounted changes the actual wieght of the car? this makes sense already...

djc208

01-17-2006, 05:44 PM

first post. but, wow! you guys are on the cutting edge, or whatever. i wanted to know more about the "ground effects" that direct more power to the ground. the unsprung weight issue also excites me. so, where the parts are mounted changes the actual wieght of the car? this makes sense already...

Ground affects don't direct more power to the ground, they just help to direct air flow around the car instead of under it. This helps downforce and aerodynamics to improve handling. Though in reality unless you autocross or something it's more for just looks.

As for unsprung weight, it doesn't change the actual weight of the car, it changes the handling. Unsprung weight isn't controlled by the suspension system of the car, and therefore you can't design the cars handling characteristics around it. It also affects how the suspension handles road imperfections. The heavier the tire, brake, spindle assembly the slower and less precisely the syspension reacts to road imperfections.

voltmfg

05-16-2006, 11:54 PM

I Agree that AWD has little to do with "Winter" Driving. AWD cars corner much better and stick to the road like noting else. I also own a 69 roadrunner and will say however that part of the fun of driving a performance car, at least an american one, is getting a little sideways when you stomp on it..a lot harder to do in an AWD..

FL3JM

07-08-2006, 07:49 AM

Definately RWD.
When i got my mag it had summer tires on it and it was right in the smack middle of the winter here in Sweden. I was really afraid that i would smash it on the way home from the port, but it went amazingly well, i had no problems at all!
AWD is not worth it if you are not climbing mount everest every day or so. :)

Well AWD maybe is worth it if you want bad ass acceleration if you are going to supercharge your mag and use NOS or what not. Extreme stuff. :)

Hemi31

07-08-2006, 06:06 PM

I Agree that AWD has little to do with "Winter" Driving. AWD cars corner much better and stick to the road like noting else.Hmmmmmm,I gotta chime in on this.I have both a RWD and an AWD R/T.I must say in all honesty that the RWD will run circles around the AWD in the twisties.The extra 1" of height on the AWD does terrible things to the center of gravity.Now lower the AWD and it will be a different story,but stock for stock the RWD wins.And incase I haven't gotten everyone riled up,the only time my AWD will out accelerate my RWD is in the rain or snow,however that is where the AWD shines.Dirt roads(lot of them here),rain,snow,and general stability in a Non Racing situation,I'd take the AWD any day over a RWD.Probably why the RWD sits in the garage for the winter and the AWD is our year round driver.

windsurfnut

09-22-2006, 05:52 PM

I'm coming from a AWD Subaru Forester and I tow a doulbe snowmobile trailer in Ontario winters. My question is, with a good set of snow tires on the car, will the magnum RWD tow a sled trailer safley in the snow. Now the bigger question, will an srt 8 with 18" rims and good snow tires perform the same? I really want an srt 8, but not at the expense of my sledding season. The other choice is a R/T AWD, but I'll have much more fun with a srt in the summer months.
Please help

Dodgeboy59

09-27-2006, 11:55 AM

Guys once you get moving the RWD magnum handles very well in the snow. It actualy takes off pretty good compared to most RWD cars but AWD will get you moving better on slippery roads every time. If I was pulling a snowmobile trailer around I would want AWD. It comes down to compromise. If you want a sports car type handling more often than you need to pull a trailer then 2wd.

gt40girl

09-30-2006, 07:12 AM

wow, this has been a great post to read! All I can say is that I avg 21 around town and 26 on the hwy...i have a RWD. As to how you drive...mmm, I probably could get more but, dang, I love a little tire squeal now and then....:)

cowboy1

10-19-2006, 08:26 PM

anyone tried off roading in a 2wd ram??????

Strykker

12-05-2006, 01:51 PM

If it is your only driver and you drive a Magnum in extreme weather (snow covered roads) on a regular basis for more than three months of the year. If you don't have to don't. I just prefer my performance without four wheel drive. I buy trucks for bad weather...

BlackMaggie

12-22-2006, 11:35 AM

I have a 2005 AWD Magnum R/T with a hemi. My experience has been that it's a little quicker than RWD models. My only mods have been a cold air intake and ciped tires (for Oregon rain).

My experience from skusa cart racing has been that traction wins and tire slip looses. It does not handle in the traditional RWD fashion and that does take adjustment but the added safety in offtrack conditions makes up for this in my opinion. Another drawback is the AWD system is a little technologically behind (my wife has a 2005 AWD Subaru and they have it figured out).

Hemi31

12-22-2006, 11:42 AM

I have a 2005 AWD Magnum R/T with a hemi. My experience has been that it's a little quicker than RWD models. My only mods have been a cold air intake and ciped tires (for Oregon rain).

You must have the only Stock AWD R/T that's quicker than a RWD.

BlackMaggie

12-22-2006, 12:42 PM

I'm happy to defer to you're greater experience.

Hemi31

12-22-2006, 12:58 PM

I'm happy to defer to you're greater experience.Not looking to pick a fight man.I have been around these since they were released and I have had both RWD and AWD R/T's and now the SRT8.I spend an awful lot of time at the track in the spring,summer and fall and have yet to see an AWD beat a RWD stock for stock.There's just to much loss in the drivetrain.I still love the AWD for the more inclement weather and not so desireable roads around here,and it will still kick the snot out of most other cars around.

BlackMaggie

12-22-2006, 01:25 PM

No fight here. I haven't put it on the track, my experience is very much less scientific.

BTW - You seem to have a lot of Magnum savvy, did you see my "help!!!???" posting about available information regarding differing tire size affecting the AWD? Anything is appreciated.

04durango102

05-03-2007, 10:54 AM

a used magnum r/t rwd selling for $19000 is a good price? it has 39300 miles with navigation, heated seats, dual zone climate control.

romeodj

09-12-2007, 07:43 AM

I've Been Reading Thru This Post (haven't Read The Whole Thing) But The Awd Owners My Self Included (07 Rt Awd) That Live In Snow Areas Do You Put Snow Tires On For The Winter Or Stick With The All Season Tires. I've Found The Best Way To Predict The Winter Weather Is Around May First.

Dodgeboy59

09-12-2007, 10:30 AM

I stuck with the stock tires. they seem to work ok and I am leasing this one so i didnt want to buy snow tires.

brueklyn

11-26-2007, 09:36 PM

I went for RWD because its more fun and like most of muscle cars you drive on RWD. Sometimes it sucks when its raining or snowing because i was burnin the other day on a road barely control that monster. But like i said its all fun. As far as what i would advise for ppl to buy? hmmm Lets say its the same if you ask me if i should get hemi or not? Got the point?... :rck:

dcxguy

02-03-2008, 06:55 AM

I chose AWD because:

1. This is the only car I can drive all year round.
2. I don't want to spend on snow tires and wheels and having to switch tires/wheels during winter.
3. I want to drive with some confidence and not worry about slipping, sliding around or getting stuck in snow. It's the snow and ice, not rain, I'm more worried about.
4. My wife and I switch cars sometimes (she has AWD too) and she travels 50 miles each way to work. She needs AWD.
5. I don't race on the track. I like driving fast but the extra quickness of the RWD doesn't outweight the benefits of 1,2,3 & 4. My AWD R/T is fast enough for daily driving.

shagginwagon

02-26-2008, 01:07 PM

The awd system adds a lot of weight to the car (I think around 500 lbs). This is one reason the rwd is quicker. I live in Kansas and we've had a really icy winter. So far, so good. The esp kicks in at the right times.
Some one previously posted that the awd helps mostly from a dead stop. I'd agree. Unless you are driving hairpin turns in the Alps, the rwd is fine once you're going.
Besides my pickup (which was 4x4) I've never owned a rwd car before. For a muscle/sports car, I'd never buy anything else.
Besides, most wrecks in the snow, ice, and rain occur while stopping. Go rwd and stop riding asses...with an r/t you can pass them instead.