Tranny ?

[mrmagiq216]

Have a 93 ram 250 van primetime conversion with 5.2l engine. All of a sudden one day it just stopped shifting. was driving fine, stopped at the service station, and when i tried to leave, it wouldn't shift out of first. no warning, no prior problems. it still has first, and reverse but it just won't shift. tried going through the gears, nothing. changed the fluid and screen. no change. i need advice. please.

[Dodgevanman]

Hmmmm, it doesn't sound good. What kind of condition was the old fluid in and was there a lot of metal flakes in the transmission pan?

[mrmagiq216]

Naw not really i mean it was kinda dark looking but the magnet had a bunch of goo on it i guess it was metal but it was reallllly fine like hair grease. not any big flakes though.

[Dodgevanman]

Check to make sure the kickdown cable isn't broken or has come disconnected.

What kind of fluid did you use? I have a '94 B250 and my owner's manual said to use Type 7176 (or Chrysler ATF+3) fluid when I changed my fluid. Dexron/Mercon doesn't work well in the newer transmissions.

Other than that, I thinks it's time for a trip to AAMCO for a diagnostic.

[mrmagiq216]

how exactly would i check the kickdown cable? i really don't know much about tranny's but i am very mechanically inclined. also i looked in the repair manual at the library and it said somehting about the governor. ??? any suggestions about that?.

I have the 4 speed tranny with the overdrive extention. this is really bugging me i appreciate all your help.

[maurice80]

AMMCO did an awesome rebuild job on my 727. The old tranny, as bad as it was, got me to the shop, no tow! They even painted the entire housing white to detect any leaks.
An alingment shop pointed this out to me, they had never seen that before. Cost me about 8 "C" notes for the rebuild.

As with any chain, your experiance may differ from mine.

[hurricane2]

The kickdown attaches to the throttle and runs down to the trans in front og the shifter linkage. I doubt this is the problem b/c the kickdown tells the trans what position the throttle is in, so if it broke the trans would think you were idling and would shift through the gears normally. The only time a kickdown doesn't allow the trans to shift is if it is held open (so it thinks the engine is at full throttle), and the engine is not at full throttle. Even then, it will shift into second, just not 3rd without flooring it.

The torque converers in those vans are notorious for going out, that would be my guess.

[mrmagiq216]

so should i just go and look for a new tranny?

[Dodgevanman]

Boy I tell ya, they must not build transmissions like they used to. My 69 Dodge A-108 van is still running on it's original transmission (A727 Torqueflite).

Take your van to a transmission shop and have them do a diagnostic on it. It may just need some adjustments. That would be a great thing.

[hurricane2]

I know my dad went through 3 torque converters in his 93, that's why I'm guessing that's the problem. the converters they used just couldn't hold up to the Magnum engines. It's very hard to kill an old Torqueflight!

[mrmagiq216]

ok its been a while since ive been here. can someone tell me more about this "limp Mode" because it seems like thats what i have going on here. where do you check the trans codes at? and how do you get it out of limp mode?

[Dodgevanman]

Your '93 van which I'm assuming has the overdrive A-518 (46RH) is not computer controlled and therefore won't have a limp home mode. That transmission is totally hydraulic except for the OD function who's circuit runs through the ECM, but is not controlled by the ECM.

I think it was around 1997 that the 46RH became the 46RE and was electronic.

[mrmagiq216]

so what now? i need advice as to what to check before i rip this tranny out along with my hair!

[Dodgevanman]

I'm afraid that your transmission may be toast if nothing is working. Sounds like the clutches inside the tranny are burned out.

[mrmagiq216]

it has first (i think) and reverse. there is no slippage at all it just refuses to switch gears and it happened all of a sudden. thats why i asked about limp mode. is there any thing else that can cause a situation like this?

[HandyMatt]

I just got Aamco to rebuild my tranny in my '91 B350 Van and it cost me 4Gs. When I first brought it in they said it would cost $1200 to replace any "soft parts" which are these disc-like things made with metal and "paper-like" material and often wear out in transmissions. They said if any "hard-parts" are worn out or damaged it would cost more for these and for their 3-year warranty to be in effect they would have to add a transmission cooler. Also they said my fluid was contaminated, possibly with water or coolant and that it might have come from a compartment leak between the coolant area of the radiator and the transmission oil section (at the bottom of the radiator). They said this was another reason for the separate transmission cooler (basically another small radiator through which the tranny fluid goes). So I go "ok" and sign the paper. The next day I get the call to go in and see what else they found. Of course they made me go in to the shop and wouldn't talk about it on the phone. When I got there they showed me a table full of parts and said it was my transmission. I didn't ask to see the van to see if my tranny wasn't in it, I assume it was mine... anyway they showed me four "hard" parts which they said were damaged and needed replacing. Some were partially blued by heat and one had some wear at one point. None of it looked too bad to me but what do I know about transmissions, very little, and I assume they're honest. I know blue metal means the hardening of the gears could have been annealed and therefore should probably not be used as a gear any more but who knows maybe it still would have worked. Anyway it always comes back to their three year warranty and I wanted that to be in effect, as I have to rely on this vehicle for my business.
At this point they said they also have to replace the torque converter. I don't understand why, I will look it up next time at the library. Anyway that's another $500 bucks, and each hard part was $300 to $500 bucks! At this point I said, of course, "Well, how much to replace the whole freakin' transmission?" and they said it would be $2700, but the warranty would only be for a year, and its not a brand new transmission, but also a rebuilt one, not rebuilt by Aamco, but some other co. and "not with parts they would use"... Also they told me that this price included trading in my old transmission, so I couldn't have it back to put on my coffee table.
If however, they did the job I could have all the worn out parts to show my dad (my financial partner in all this as I'm not that well off yet... needed a loan... argh)
So I agreed that a three year warranty would be better and to do it right as opposed to a possibly sub-standard quality tranny that could go wrong again after the warranty expires and cost me again... so that's how they got me for the $4Gs.
Also they advertise that they have free towing and free courtesy cars while they work on your vehicle. They said it should be done in two days and I figured I don't need the courtesy car, as I was only working on a house painting job at the time, and could carry my tools on my bicycle. So, they go, ok we can make the job cheaper for you in that case and take $59 off which is "what it will cost us from the rental agency..." Now I'm thinking, 'Well, so its not a free courtesy car after all!..."
And I don't imagine the towing could have been "free" either. Anywho, so the next day I check if my van will be ready and the guy sets an appointment with me for noon to pick it up. I had arranged a bank money transfer from the folks to pay the job and the Aamco rep was like "we'll call the bank in the morning and make sure the transfer went through and you'll be on your way..." Well I get to their shop at 12 noon the next day and having not received a phone call that morning I assumed the money transfer had happened and all would be well. I got to the shop and they were like, "I'm sorry, the mechanic who was working on your transmission had a family problem and had to go home early yesterday..." I was livid as their shop is an hour bike ride from my home and I was losing work hours. But I remained patient... two days later they finally called me that my van was ready and the money transfer had gone through. Were they stalling and giving excuses because the money transfer takes three days to go through? I'm not certain. Anyway, I biked to their shop and it was an incredibly hot, humid day and I almost passed out from heat exhaustion when I got there. They literally had to call an ambulance to make sure I wasn't going to die right there of heat stroke. At this point it may also have been emotional stress which was causing me to overheat and hyperventilate... but that's besides the point. They "released" my van to me and now tell me I had to come back in ten days for a checkup to make sure the gears are meshing and breaking in properly. Also another checkup in one year. If I miss that appointment or the first one for that matter, it would void the warranty!! And that's why we went through all this in the first place, isn't it? Ok so they give me the business and get me to sign the paperwork stating that I'm aware of the checkups, and I get the van and I ask the rep "You have my worn out parts in a box for me, right?" After all I had made it expressly clear twice that I wanted these parts. They guy goes, "oh ya, just a minute.." and goes back in the shop and I swear, I don't hear from him for 10-15 minutes. Finally he comes back out and gives me the story, "well, gee, the new guy who is an apprentice and was helping out, threw out all the old parts...He's a clean freak and didn't understand we wanted the parts..." !!! "We're really sorry, I know this is not right..." At this point I'm just so stressed out and getting over my heat exhaustion and just want to get out of there, so I'm like "well, whatever"... but they didn't offer anything to make up for this oversight.
Do you want my advice about your tranny? Get a new one, or used or rebuilt or somewhere. Get it cheap and have a good regular mechanic pop out the old and put in the new! Don't get parts rebuilt that you can't look inside and see what's old and what's new! I won't say anything bad about Aamco. I'm just relating what happened in my situation. You may draw your own conclusions.
I forgot to mention, when I checked on the new transmission cooler, it was in front of the radiator and plumbed in to the radiator! Now how is that going to solve the possible contamination problem? We shall see... Stay tuned for more...

[HandyMatt]

Ok well, I wasn't too happy when I wrote that last message. After all, how can anyone be happy when they spend a fricken fortune to get a shitty transmission rebuilt. Plus I can't blame Aamco too much. They did tell me I'd get my replaced parts back, but I can see why they wouldn't want the customer to have them. Still they shouldn't have promised it if they weren't going to give them. I guess it may be possible that their "apprentice trainee" went crazy and threw out the parts before they could save them for me. Well they did make it up to me to some extent. A while ago my tranny blew again! I was stuck in traffic, going to a job in the morning and I put her in gear at a stop light and pffrrrt! The engine stalls!
Jeez louise! So I put 'er in park and start the engine again, put er in gear again, bamm! Same thing. Finally I got it off the road by flooring the gas and slamming her in gear. I called Aamco and they were supportive and got their tow truck out. They took care of it. Mind you it took a few days longer than expected, and the loaner vehicle was only paid by the warranty for three days. I was going to have to foot the bill for an extras two or three days on a rental van. (Dodge minivan actually, it was kinda cool, with the stow-away seats.) I was severely tight on cash because the breakdown of my van delayed getting paid for a handyman job I was working on, and I called them up and told them they owed me for throwing out my parts when they did the first rebuild. They were a bit skiddish about paying for the extra days on the loaner at first, and the rep. wouldn't even call me back to tell me what was going on and if I would have to pay, and why they were taking so long. But when they finally called me a few days later they said they had to replace the torque converter and that it had "literally exploded" shattered into several peices and that they had to clean out the whole tranny. So I guess its understandable if that was the case. A few days later the tranny was leaking and I brought it back to them. It didn't take long to fix that, it was just an improperly tightened cover. They said the cover may be warped and if it happens again it might need a new one. I question that statement, but anyway it has held for several months now and no leaks. Stay tuned for the further saga of how they treat me and how long the tranny holds up. It has a three year warranty and has to be brought in this summer for its one year checkup.
I'm still pissed that it cost so much, but when shti like this happens I can understand why. :nutkick:

[Dodgevanman]

Too bad I didn't see this in the beginning. I would have told you to go with a Jasper transmission and be done with it.

$4000 dollars is ridiculous for a stock trans. rebuild.

Hopefully this will the last of your transmission woes.

[chigato]

boy that's one sad story,talk about hyperinflation. you just got took by one of the oldest con-games in that god-forsaken business. i used to work in tranny shops about 28 years ago. aamco,interstate,motra, a few independents, but aamco was the king of the heap. they are trained in psycho-babble and will prey on your ignorance and vulnerability, why don't you file a complaint with the state's attorney's office or better yet invest in a newspaper add or buy some signs and advertise how wonderful your experience was with them. after driving around and passing by real slow with a toot on your horn, you just might get a refund. show them they picked the wrong person to mess with and you got just as much balls. i've seen very good results like that.

[mrmagiq216]

ok it's been a looong while but i felt compelled to update this thread since i recieved so many reples.

I finally bit the bullet and attacked the tranny myself since i don't have the $ to pay a shop. i took the valve body out and cleaned it, and took the tail section off and dismantled it. and lo and behold, there is a little pin that runs through the governor, and an even smaller clip attached to each end. well 1 of them broke. i took the clip to the transmission supply store and they GAVE me a new clip!! just gave it to me. didnt even charge me for it. and gave me a new pin with it so "i wouldn't loose the clip". i replaced the clip reattached the tail and it SHIFTS PERFECTLY!!!

Hurt? i think so. A free part stopped all my action.

O Well. at least it didnt cost me anything except time. BTW this is my first tranny job. Hooray!!

[Dodgevanman]

Geez...sometimes it's the little things that make our day. Congrats on getting back on the road again.

[chigato]

it's good to hear there are some decent folks left. One guy charged me 5 bucks for a tiny little 5 cent ring years ago. the shop that gave you that pin should be commended.

[mrmagiq216]

ok im back again :mad: i'll try and make this short and as accurate as possible.
im on the road the other day crusing at about 75 mph, and the od kicked out. dropped to 3rd, pressed od button, no change. :huh: kept going, long way from home.
got off highway, no pull. shift to low, pull :rck: stopped around corner
to drop off bbq grill, had reverse. let cool off. came back started up, no pull :rolleyes: shift in low, pull :confused: drove home in low. :VHOT: got home, no reverse :bawl: pulled in driveway, left it, next morning started up put in D, nothing. put in R, nothing. oh wait, it sounds like rocks are in the trans while idle in gear. :jmad: :shoot: i'm gonna rip this whole trans out this time. what should i be looking for? any ideas? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Dodgevanman]

Sorry....your transmission is toast. Is this the second time now? That blows.

[chigato]

put a 3spd in it?

[chigato]

put a good old torqueflite 3spd in it?

[Dodgevanman]

That's good advice actually. Or go with a Jasper reman.

[stev]

http://www.jasperengines.com/transmissions-automobile.htm :)

Just click on the link to the right for a installer. ;) Hopefully not AAMCO !!! :rocket:

36 month/75,000 mile Nationwide Transferable Warranty — Parts and Labor for a Jasper sounds good.

You'll need to keep the OD as gas prices are still up there and show no sign of backing down.

My dad years ago had a bad time with AAMCO and we have never gone back to them. We've also had problems with Midas as well. :mad:

There's only one honest and good shop in our area, and everyone knows it. So, getting in there is difficult at best. The other shops cringe when we mention the good shop's name. :D

Keep us posted indeed!

Stev

[chigato]

i just fell off my chair. that jasper video was great but i flipped over the costs. a master rebuild kit for a 727 is $65 and overdrive units for my 96 b2500 are around $120 here at my local trans parts house. there is also an excellent online parts source i've used. ATSG sells a super good how-to rebuild video and manual.some of the proceedures are overkill in my opinion because the trans will outlast the vehicle. the most common problem was burnt friction discs or hardened piston seals and o-rings.

[chigato]

unless you put this thing thru a war............

[stev]

Since this is about trannies and the Ram Van, I use ATF+3 & Lube-Guard because I do much towing. The Lube-Guard raises the flash point of the fuild to prevent foaming. Most RV'ers know of this product. When I had the '96 Caravan, it had a very bad shudder around 40-45 going into OD. Once I changed the fluid with ATF+3, the shudder returned a month later. So, I changed it again with ATF+3 and added the Lube-Guard. The shudder went away.

The tranny wasn't slipping to cause the shudder, but it sure shook the caravan.

Now with towing, and in the RV forums, people use this product often. I thought that I stumbled onto a big thing, only to find out it's been used for years. Also, I found something called SeaFoam recently. That too has been a know product for years.

[gsmagnum]

I used Sea Foam to help on my '95 Concorde's tranny.
It helped slightly on the 4th gear shudder/slip, but not as much as a 24,000 GVW B&M tranny cooler for about $50.
I might have to try the Lube Guard next time I change the fluid and filter on the Concorde.
I am not sure I want to run anything other than +4 in my van's tranny. I'll just stick with annual maintenance of it.

[Dodgevanman]

That's good advice thanks Stev.

[mrmagiq]

ok for some reason i cant get in with my other profile anymore so i had to remake it.
i started the van up yesterday. no reverse still. the noise is gone now it just sits there like its still in neutral. i drove it to my garage. at first, i had to put it in low to get it to move at all, once i pushed it backwards out of the driveway. then i shifted into "D" and it was shifting, and everything. it kinds feels like its hesitating to drop into 1st at a stop. sometimes i can pull off from a dead stop in "D" with no problems, and sometimes, i have to shift back to low to get it to move. once in motion it was driving ok if i shift back to "D".......sometimes. then sometimes it would just slip like there was no grab then all of a sudden BAM it would shift very hard then start driving normally.

as it heated up i assume, it seemed to get stuck in 1st gear. wouldnt shift at all. kinda like the original problem. i parked it and let it sit until today. now i drove it to the store, seemed to shift normally. didnt really drive it too far though so it never got a chance to really heat up. still no reverse though.

checked the fluid. it's black so i know i need to get new fluid and screen. what else should i be concerned about once i drop this trans. im gonna do the work myself again. i really want to get to know this trans as best as i can.

oh as a side note. i realized that when i removed the tail section on my last attempt, i had forgotten to put a bearing in upon reassembly. not really forgotten but when i removed the tail section the bearing must have been stuck to the very top of the clutch pack "overdrive clutch??" by the trans fluid and must have fallen out as i was transporting the tail section. i didnt find it until well after i had reassembled the tranny and gotten on the road. i still have the bearing though. what does this bearing do? (its flat like two large washers sandwiched together)

please dont call me an idiot becuz if i had known i would have replaced it :)

[mrmagiq]

also i was wondering if i have to swap the trans, would a 46rh out of a jeep grand cherokee fit? or are they designed differently. i know the jeep has 4wd but is that an extention to the main body or what?? the reason i ask is because for some reason, its almost impossible to find a van in the scrap yards locally that has a good trans in it. as a matter of fact, i cant even find 1 in the scrap yards for parts.

93 dodge b250 van primetime conversion
5.2l
46rh

[Dodgevanman]

If the fluid is black, that's definitely not a good sign of the condition of your trans.

I'm not sure if a Jeep transmission will be a direct bolt-in or not.

[mrmagiq]

anyone?

[mrmagiq]

bump

[Dodgevanman]

I don't think a Jeep trans. will be a direct bolt-in. The pan is set up differently and the transfer case is not the "divorced" or seperate type.

[mrmagiq]

thanks i guess ill be screaming at this van for a while