Daylight Running Lamps - 05 GC [Archive] - Dodge Talk Community Forum

BABYGRAND

01-26-2005, 10:19 AM

Six pack.

Correct me if I am wrong but, the DRLs need to be active if a US car is to be registered and plated in Canada or for certification if you are re-selling a vehicle?

The safety aspect I respect, but so are seatbelts and not everyone wears those either, hence the air bags.

My point is, if it can be modded to suite your individual tastes safely, then why not? Why can I not have the DRLs shut off? Why can I not just turn the switch on or use other lights as DRLs? What did we do before this option was standardized?

Having a minivan already has a bad stigma attached ( no offense to sport moms or dads) , can we not make our vehicles out to be what we think it should or can be and still make it safe and fun to drive and own?

cliff gapco

01-26-2005, 10:50 AM

McClane

01-26-2005, 11:08 AM

Why would anybody want DRLs activated in there car? All they do is waste gas, wear your charging system out faster.THere is No proof that DRLs prevent accidents.Any body looking to disable DRLs do a goggle search on: dave cole- lights out. The web site has many listings for disabling DRLs.
Huh ? How does turning on headlights waste gas ? The alternator is rated at a certain amp/voltage, and turning on any normal electrical component won't cause much or any drain on the charging system as the engineers have factored in the normal electrical usage in the car.

I had an 87 Horizon, 2.2L, and I had aftermarket fogs installed. That caused abit of drain on the electrical system as the normal charging system was never designed to accomodate fog lights.

What you're referring to means that no car should be driven at night because you'd have to turn on your headlights, which in turn means the lights on the dash and the rear tail lights will turn on, which means even more is gas used and even a bigger increase in the charging system wearing out faster. Sorry, I don't mean to flame you or anything but that makes no sense at all. If you said turning on the defroster and the car is equipped with a/c and that causes an increase in fuel consumption, I can believe that.

:huh: :huh:

I'd like to also point out, have you ever tried making a left hand turn with traffic coming the other way and the sun is in your eyes ? You can barely see anything, even with the sun visor down and sunglasses. If the oncoming traffic doesn't have DRLs or headlights, it is very hard to see them. At least if they have DRLs/headlights on, it makes seeing them in the sun that much easier.

cliff gapco

01-26-2005, 01:51 PM

When you turn on your headlights it adds more load to your alternator, this means it takes more horse power to turn it , that causes you to burn more fuel. It is a fact that it takes power to turn a fully energized alternator. Hate to burst your bubble. I saw a 3m.p.g. increase on my camary when i disconnected the drls.

Mark360Ram

01-26-2005, 01:56 PM

I'm sorry, I can't believe a 3mpg increase :thatfunny in disconnecting your DRLs. .... no way.

Go ahead, burst away......

cliff gapco

01-26-2005, 02:30 PM

Go ahead don,t believe but it true i donot add funny faces .

gas28man

01-26-2005, 05:16 PM

I'm with Cliff. Headlights are a BIG drain. According to my on-board computer, my night time driving is usually 1-1.5 mpg less on the highway than my daytime driving, all other things being equal.

I've pretty much always known this.

I remember about 20 years ago when the alternator went bad in my 1970 Dart and I had a long drive home at night. As the headlights got dimmer and dimmer, the car started sputtering and dying on an unlit highway halfway between Detroit and Ann Arbor. As I rolled toward the shoulder, I shut the headlights off, and it roared back to life (well, as much as a Slant-Six Dart can roar). Guiding myself just by the orange glow of the parking lights, I got right behind a passing car and chased his taillights the last 12 miles home. The guy must have thought I was nuts. Along the way, I experimented. Headlights on, the car tried to die. Headlights off, the car ran OK. A new alternator ($29 in those days) and all was well.

Man, the crazy stuff you do when you're 20.

Rick

six pack

01-26-2005, 10:55 PM

I'm sorry, I can't believe a 3mpg increase :thatfunny in disconnecting your DRLs. .... no way.

Go ahead, burst away......
:thatfunny

:huh: First of all I curse anyone not driving with their headlamps on while on the highway, how can you pass safely when you can't see the oncoming traffic properly, How can you be sure you been seen by oncoming traffic so they don't pull in front of you. I'm sorry but the benefits of human life far outway any measly amount saved on fuel or bulb and alternator life.

and 3 mpg.. :gr_bs: gotta call it. Less fuel mileage at night because the lights are on?? The air is also more dense as the temp is cooler which causes more wind resistance/power to keep an object in motion... :blah:

BABYGRAND,

Drl's must be installed on any vehicle 1990 or newer that has been imported into Canada, this must be done as part of the inspection procedure. 1990 is when the law was put into effect in this country for new vehicles.

Air bags were installed for more protection, not so people didn't have to wear seat belts, there is a risk of much more personal injury if a seat belt isn't worn in conjuction with an air bag deployment, newer Caravans also have seat belt pretensioners that are fired by the air bag module(ORC) to tighten on deployment so that there is no slack in the belt to lessen personal injury.

I would say mod away your van. But remember you can't see your lDRL's on while your driving, you can't see them while you are parked. Why worry :dunno:

BABYGRAND

01-27-2005, 08:52 AM

:

I would say mod away your van. But remember you can't see your lDRL's on while your driving, you can't see them while you are parked. Why worry :dunno:

It wasn't the fact that I don't like them on, just thinking about the after market lights that burn out faster because the single headlight system uses the main lights as DRLs ( I know, I know, aftermarket is not what it is cracked up to be but hey it's just plain fun to mod.) Anyway the design of the lights require us to by more lights to compensate, like the sylvana (spelling) $24 CDN a bulb?

Why couldn't DC just keep the DRLs on the corners like the Gen 3? I think the brightness of the Gen 3 corners are far brighter than the Gen 4 headlights anyway, you can tell one coming from miles away.

Just my .02. :rck:

Welfarewagon

01-27-2005, 12:31 PM

LOL man I hope none of you have a friend or family member die, you may be to cheap to drive in the funneral procession due to the high cost of gas spent driving the day with your lights on.
So what your saying is that any electrical item will cause lower MPG? how can you explane your radio, windshield wipers, brakelights, turn signals etc, come on if its that much on your wallet maybe try taking a bus, oh wait around here thay all have DRL's so that may not be a better option.

I have a better solution to your 1.5 mpg gas hike, take out all the rear seats and just tell your friends and family to walk or get there own ride the weight reduction from the 2 rows orf seats and 2-7 passengers will far excede the 1.5 mpg you will save withthe DRL's disconnected.

All you are saying is that on 20 gallons you can go 30 miles farther with no DRL's.

cliff gapco

01-28-2005, 07:54 AM

There is very little proof that Drls save lives, when your number is up it is, by saving a little gas we have a little less pollution, imagine if all the the drls were disconnected the amount of fuel saved would be in the tens of thousands.

Welfarewagon

01-28-2005, 09:35 AM

I would disagree that DRL's don't save lifes, how many idoits do you see at night that are so overcome by cell phones and radios that they cannot remember to turn on the headlights, without the DRL's some would have more then likely hit or have been hit because they are not able to be seen.
Have you ever driven into a glaring sun, fog or rainny day when the same above mentioned moron fails to turn on the lights for bad weather or just the fact that their is a glare on the windshield making it harder to see an oncoming car?
Further more why am I wasting my time with you? this is the craziest idea I have ever heard of; someone actually researching to see if a headlight will give them better gas mileage, go by a hybrid oh wait they have DRL's on them as well and run on battery, man looks like you just cant win the automakers dont see your point and personaly neither do I

Mark360Ram

01-28-2005, 11:37 AM

DRLs do save lives. Period

Stats-
http://www.sav-a-life.com/Drl_intro.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/DRLs/studies.htm
http://www.iihs.org/safety_facts/qanda/drl.htm
http://www.mynrma.com.au/safety_drl.asp
http://www.securityworld.com/lighting/daytimerunning.html

==================
Aftermarket
http://www.automotiveelectronicaccessories.com/

==================
And being fair, and a free Country :gr_patrio
http://www.lightsout.org/story.html

My complaint - the driver should have to option to turn 'em off or on, just like standard headlights. Personally, I'd like to turn them off when idling. Or, in the morning when she's warming up. Now, I have to apply the emergency brake to de-actaviate the DRLs. I find that a bit inconvenient.

gas28man

01-28-2005, 12:49 PM

I remember back when the CHMSL (center high-mount stop light, or third brake light) first came out, it was because there was all sorts of hoopla about studies that had been done showing they reduced rear-enders. Turned out it was only 2 studies (they used taxis, I believe), but they were pretty good studies.

Problem was, the study results came out, and in a knee-jerk reaction (or a sop to the safety crowd) the government passed a regulation requiring them, and every car got them. And then they learned about the Law of Diminishing Returns.

What we learned after years of having CHMSLs is that the reduction in rear-enders observed in the two studies was NOT attibutable to the fact that there was a third brake light, or that it was mounted at eye level. Cars in the studies had fewer rear-enders because they had something DIFFERENT than every other car on the road. Humans are still animals, and animals respond quicker to something different in their environment than to something that is normal.

So now the traffic safety data shows diminishing returns from the CHMSL. Adjusting for all other factors, we have just as many rear-enders as we ever did, because now, practically every car on the road has one.

The only reason I know all this esoteric BS is because I wrote an article on this topic citing data from traffic institutes in Michigan.

So, regarding the DRLs, I think I can safely predict that, yes, you may see some marginal safety improvement from them now that they are new (at least here in the states). But when every car on the road has them, we'll be back to doing the same stupid things humans always do.

And, welfarewagon, all the other systems on a car that you cite - radio, wipers, turn signals - draw far less power than headlights. Headlights are the single biggest accessory draw. That's why this topic is relevant.

Rick

Al Smith

01-31-2005, 08:18 AM

Well, regardless of whether or not it affects MPG, I would still like to have the feature.

To our Canadian drivers, that have the '05 GC - which lights are used as DRL's - the "parking lights" or the headlights?

Thanks.

Mark360Ram

01-31-2005, 08:43 AM

It's the headlights.

BABYGRAND

01-31-2005, 08:44 AM

On the '05s the headlights are used for the DRLs but when you use your indicators the corresponding headlight turns off when you do not have the light switch in the on position.

Al Smith

01-31-2005, 01:17 PM

Very much! :crazy:

propswife

02-03-2005, 01:32 PM

Okay, for everyone who doesn't want to use daytime running lights, what color is your van? Would it happen to be a color that fades into the background such as silver, grey, blue-grey, light beige, charcoal, white, etc.? I ask because of the yahoos around here who just love to drive in the mist, fog, rain (which is supposed to be illegal) and snow during the day or twilight without their lights on. Yes, I know your car should be whatever color you want it to be, you want to save gas, and you believe that the pale colors are cooler in the summer (I agree), but as a fellow driver I would really like to be able to SEE YOU COMING. The weather conditions can't be helped but you can at least have some lights on to be visible to the rest of us so we don't do something like cut you off in traffic or pull out in front of you because you are the color of pavement. Really, having some kind of light on helps.

gas28man

02-03-2005, 02:19 PM

Agreed. To me the most important time to have on your headlights (aside from when it's dark, duh!) is when you're coming out of the sunset or sunrise toward oncoming traffic. It's easy to forget because when the sun is behind you, you're not the one being blinded. But people coming the other way have the sun in their eyes, sunglasses on, visors down and so on. It is a big deal to help BE SEEN by oncoming traffic.

Rick

boomboy64

02-03-2005, 10:21 PM

Well I for one don't see what the big deal is... 98 Caravan, original owner, 164,000 kms (just over 100K miles) and while it has those amber DRL/turn signals, I can't remember the last time I drove it without turning on the full headlights. Force of habit from my previous cars... I really doubt that it would make that much of a difference in MPG. And in all that time, I've had to change a grand total of one headlight bulb, last fall.

The only downside I've found to real/headlight DRLs is when I'd visit USAF or USN bases to raid the PX and we'd have to explain in detail to the gate guard why we couldn't 'dim lights' as instructed on the signs.

Cheers...

Dan in Winnipeg.. :crazy:

Al Smith

02-27-2005, 10:43 AM

I drove ambulances for over 25 years. It was proven, then, that white lights, not red or blue, were easier to see during daylight. That's why, today, many ambulances have a white flashing light on the front.

But, I like to see and be seen!

I can't get a decent answer from either my dealer or Chrysler. I've emailed some Canadian dealers with no reply.

So, other than aftermarket, is there anyone in the U.S. who has had their DRL's activated? If so, what did it entail.

I once nearly had an accident on Route 95 between Laughlin and Las Vegas, Nevada. I was passing an RV and couldn't see an oncoming car. That car did not have any lights on - and it was the middle of the afternoon. It came out of the sun. I remember it was red, but that's about it. It was as if it just dropped out of the sky. I wound up in the middle of the desert, and was graced with a 60 mile ambulance ride on a back board. I think if that car had lights, I would have seen it a lot earlier than I did.

So, regardless of the cost, I'm for DRL's.

:bman:

six pack

02-27-2005, 10:53 AM

Al,
What year is your van and I can tell you what is involved to make it happen.

Al Smith

02-27-2005, 11:10 AM

I have a 2005 GC SXT

Al

six pack

02-27-2005, 11:39 AM

Al,
All the dealer has to do is go into the body computer with the DRBIII(scan tool) and change the country code from U.S. to Canada, this will make the body computer activate teh DRL function. I have had to do this is few times for vehicles we sold up here in Canada as the running lights did not work because because the Body Computer was set to the U.S. instead of Canada.

Let me know if you need any more help.

Al Smith

02-27-2005, 12:25 PM

I'll be going into the dealer within the next week, for an oil change, and I'll ask them again.

I just think they don't want to do it.

Thanks,
Al

six pack

02-27-2005, 12:29 PM

I just think they don't want to do it.

Thanks,
Al
I suspect you are right. Takes about 10 mins worth of the electrical specialist time to get it done for you.

Al Smith

02-27-2005, 01:44 PM

Too bad I can't get my own tool!

Al Smith

03-02-2005, 05:07 PM

Six Pack, Thanks for you info on the DLR's. I made an appt with Kindle Dodge, here in Cape May County, for my 12000 mile maintenance and to have the country code changed.

As I suspected, the service writer doesn't have a clue about what I'm talking of.
I can't believe that they're that dumb.

Can you post the instructions here, or, I sent you a private message. Can you email them to me?

Thanks,
Al

kb9pko

03-19-2005, 08:05 AM

Will the change country code work on my 96 Voyager?

Al Smith

03-19-2005, 09:43 AM

Well, the change did work on my 05.

About other years, I really don't know.

I'm a weekend space mechanic! :thatfunny :thatfunny

six pack

03-19-2005, 12:32 PM

Will the change country code work on my 96 Voyager?
You will need to purchase a new combo relay for the turn signal and hazards.

Check Chrysler part #4686 190.

Hope this helps.:)

kb9pko

03-20-2005, 12:01 PM

Twice in the last few months I've been seen lives placed in jeapordy by DRL's. First time was a highway crew cleaning up after a mishap. The flagger was standing in front of a dump truck which was sitting driverless facing traffic. With the oncoming drivers blinded by the headlights, the flagger was for all practical purposes "invisible." He was wearing a reflective vest and carrying a flashlight, but neither could overcome the glare of the headlights on the truck. I could easily have hit him!

Second time was an emergency exercise held at the local hospital involving fire, rescue, police, and disaster services. The DRL's of the emergency vehicles made it impossible to see anything except the DRL's. They are virtually useless as a source of lighting.

Now I have no problem at all with having the headlights operating while the vehicle is in motion, something like the insane automatic door locks that activate at 16mph; but, having them running while the vehicle is sitting is a hazard we can live without.

perch38

03-20-2005, 07:27 PM

when i was in canada we used to put just one click on the emergency brake and the drl would go off,dont ask my why

six pack

03-20-2005, 09:41 PM

The DRL's of the emergency vehicles made it impossible to see anything except the DRL's. They are virtually useless as a source of lighting.

.

They are not a source of lighting. Guess I can't quite understand why a dim headlamp or a turn signal that is no brighter than Hazard flashers could cause your lack of vision.

markc

09-28-2005, 10:04 PM

donald7150

09-28-2005, 10:23 PM

the only way to activate the DRL on an '05 is to get the dealer to change the country code using the chrysler starscan scantool, not sure if any other scantools can change it

six pack

09-28-2005, 10:50 PM

Have to use the DRB3 on Caravan. Starscan works on LX's ,HB and NB's.

donald7150

09-29-2005, 07:34 AM

ah sorry my mistake, but either way the dealer is the only one who can do it

six pack

09-29-2005, 10:13 PM

ah sorry my mistake, but either way the dealer is the only one who can do it
Absolutely. :cool:

mmahamm

10-04-2005, 02:56 PM

I have a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan. It doesn't have the DRL, but I would like to have it activated. I do not wish to go to the dealer to have this done, as I just bought it at the dealer, and have had an overall bad experience buying this car.
Please email me the instructions.
Mark
markacomp@comcast.net

Here's an idea: Go to a different dealer than the one you bought the car from.

Go to the other dealer for any warranty work as well.

Al Smith

10-14-2005, 07:45 PM

Sorry I've been away for awhile. Since the DRL was activated on my dark blue GC, I've have quite a few incidents where I was seen and a potential accident was avoided. Cape May County, New Jersey, where I live, is a tourist mecca from May to September. I swear, when the tourists leave home they leave their brains there for a rest! As far as the poster above, with the flagger in front of a truck, and emergency vehicles, they were probably using their high beam lights. I've noted, in this area anyway, that police, fire and ambulance all have their high beam lights alternately blinking when their emergency lights are working. Really stupid, because oncoming drivers are blinded, and you can't see the emergency lights at all, not that it matters because you can't see anything at that point anyway.

I'm happy with the DRL's and would never go back to not having them.

Now, I'm looking for the handsfree kit for my bluetooth phone.

acruxksa

10-16-2005, 12:01 PM

A quick google search found plenty of data that DRL's significantly reduce frontal collisions.

This whole thing is silly. They aren't legally required in many places in the US and are legally required in Canada. This means if you live in the US you DON'T have to have them regardless of what others might try to brow beat you into doing. Should you have them, probably, but you aren't required to have them.

Power is not free, so anytime you make electricity it comes at a cost. Your fuel mileage will decrease with headlights on. I don't think it's really a very significant amount, but it will go down. The world could save much more energy by making sure their tires were inflated properly.

My 05 Grand Caravan SXT actually doesn't have them enabled and I'm going to try to get the dealership to enable them because I think they are a good idea and more importantly my wife who is actually the person who drives the van thinks it's a good idea. Again since I live in the US it is MY CHOICE, at least until they become required by law.

Al Smith

10-16-2005, 01:04 PM

I agree completely. I think my MPG went down about 1 to 1.5 mpg with the DRL's, but then if you think about air conditioning and all, then it's really not that significant in the scheme of things.

My dealer did it, after I explained what they had to do - they claimed they didn't know. Charged me 1/2 hour, for a 15 minute job, but I"m happy.

six pack

10-16-2005, 05:53 PM

Honestly guys, I would find it very hard to believe anyone would see a measurable difference in fuel mileage because the headlamps are on dim. The temperature outside could make more difference if the A/C and rad fans had to run more frequently.

Al Smith

10-16-2005, 08:43 PM

Yes, you are right about the MPG. I was just stating off the cuff, but I'm sure it's negligble. My wife has a heart condition, so the a/c is on all the time. Never off, even in the winter - just add some heat to it. I purchased our GC in end of July, 2004, and have 23400 miles on it so far. But, since we're rural, all of our driving is "highway" as opposed to big city driving. Depending on how fast, and warm, etc, my mpg is running 23 to 25mpg. I'm satisifed. My 1994 Honda Odyssesy, with a 4 cyl, under the same operating conditions - no DRL's though, averaged not more than 24mpg. The GC has the 3.8 6 cyl. I'm happy. My buddy lives in Philadelphia, and has the same model, and he gets 13 to 14 on a good day. However, when he comes here, using the freeway, he can get up to 26mpg on the freeway. He's really disappointed in his city mpg.

acruxksa

10-17-2005, 02:12 AM

I'm pretty sure it's negligible, but it is there. Energy has to come from somewhere, so whenever you turn something on theoretically your gas mileage suffers. As I stated earlier I think proper tire inflation would save more gas than turning off your DRL's, but there is still no escaping the fact that running with DRL's on does burn more gas than without. Whether running without DRL's will save the world is another story though. There are literally hundreds of better ways to save energy than turning off DRL's. Fluorescent lights, lowering thermostats, water heater blankets, on demand water heaters, etc, etc, etc............

The thing is, DRL's are still a personal choice in the US and because of that it's a moot point. To each his/her own. There are many issues with DRL's, but in the end it's like seatbelts, for every "so and so burned up in his car because he wore his seatbelt and couldn't get out fast enough" there are dozens of head on collisions that were prevented. I think ultimately the manufacturers should make them standard in the US and allow owners to disable them if they desire. This is because there are many legitimate reasons that you would need to turn off your DRL's. It would only be a minor cost to the manufacturers to allow this. (my chevy truck has this option, it's not simple, but it is possible for the owner to disable/enable their DRL's) Having to go to the dealership to have it done probably costs them more in the long run than putting a switch in the vehicle to allow the owner to decide.

Al Smith

10-17-2005, 08:29 AM

Well Said.

Enough said.

96Grand

10-17-2005, 10:02 AM

Reading through this... I found a few good explainations & you guys handled this well even after things got a little heated... good job everyone.

Me... I have the DRL's activated... just because. The gas mileage sux for all of us Caravan people compared to one of the hybrid's or any vehicle on the list below... I am getting 14 MPG City... and roughly 20 MPG highway.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/gasmileage/

I am also thinking of tracking my fuel costs over the next several months just as a project... I will post my overall results sometime in the future.

:rck: